I have a nine year old student who has come back from the holidays with no enthusiasm left whatsoever. For everything I suggest she just shrugs, and it is obvious she has not played her instrument at all for seven weeks. I have obviously discussed this with her parents, who want her to carry on for a few weeks. I have a lot of sympathy for the parents - before the holidays she used to practice a lot, even though she was only a beginner and was progressing really well. Now she has gone off the piano and even music all together. Of course I feel terrible - what have I done to put the poor child off music? I have tried to think of what might of discouraged her last term and can't think of anything, her change in attitude seems quite sudden. Lessons are also unbearable at the moment, she has become surly to the point of rudeness and from my point of view I would love to let her go, but I hate the idea of giving up on her. Anyone else had a similar experience?

How long a break did she have?
Maybe it's just that it was too long away for her.

I've had a few come back who obviously didn't practise much over the summer, but still they are happy enough at their lessons and have got back into the swing of things, so nothing like the dramatic change you describe here.

Could it be she made the descision to stop piano before she came back to you, but her parents have insisted?

I'm sure it's nothing specific you've done, as she was fine before the break...

Yes its the attitude not the lack of practice that bothers me. She obviously decided she wanted to give up during the holidays and I feel now she is being unco-operative to prove a point. She has been fickle about things in the past and I think her parents want to encourage some sticking power but I wonder if they are going to lose the battle. I have tried tempting her with new music but its as if she's already decided to be bored. Her parents have said she thinks the piano is "stupid", I wonder if its a peer pressure thing.

It could be to do with friends, but it's a pity you get caught in the middle like this as it makes for a bad atmosphere during lessons, and leads to you blaming yourself...Don't, by the way

It could be difficult to win her over if she's resigned herself, and as you say she has a habit of not sticking with things.

I'd stay as upbeat as possible during the lesson for the next couple of weeks, and if there is no sign of change after a few weeks, then it will probably be too stressful for you to go on any longer.

Are the parents aware how she behaves during the lesson?

Her parents have said she thinks the piano is "stupid", I wonder if its a peer pressure thing.
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Speaking as the mother of a just turned 10 yr old girl, I wouldn't be all surprised if peer pressure was at the root of it. Both my girls (the other is nearly 8) enjoy playing the piano, but they often resent practising and I often get comments from the older one in particular such as "why can't just I watch televisioin like everyone else" or "X is allowed to spend as long as she likes on the computer" or (my favourite) We're the only people in the whole school who don't have a playstation". I had expected that sort of thiing when they were in their teens - but sadly children just seem to turn into teenagers much earlier these days (though at least there are no hormones to contend with yet!) The older ones seems to have 2 main priorities: 1) to be the same as everyone else and 2) to be cool. Mine don't start lessons utiil next week (we have 10 week terms) but so far they have saved their surly behaviour for me and are fine with their teachers.

I certainly have no answers for you (and shall be looking out for suggestions from others) and don't know what sort of new music you've been tempting her with, but (if you can bear it) you might look into whether there is any music from "High School Musical" which she might be able to have a go at. Might be too difficult, of course, but she could perhaps have a go at picking out some of the tunes which might encourage her to try to do more. If you're not familiar with iit, HSM is a sort of modern-day Disney version of "Grease" and both my girls - and all their friends - love it. Try "status quo" (I think) which contains my girls' favourite scene. All the high school pupils are admitting to unusual things that they do and one boy says "I play the 'cello" which prompts the reply "awesome - what's that?" I gather that HSM 2 is due out on DVD soon (oh joy)...

Whether you get anywhere or not, don't blame yourself. I'm sure you've done absolutely nothing to put her off.

Sorry, I was being rude and arguing with my mum all the time, and generally being a teenager at nine. It's rubbish, yes, but from fifteen onwards, I've got over it, and I hardly argue with anyone any more...
Maybe the earlier it starts the earlier it finishes?

High School musical is great for younger children yeah... for older children (like myself) I'd make sure they have a well-developed sense of irony, or they'll detest it.... I like High School musical - in the sense that I love pointing and laughing at how stupid it can be... that makes it fun to mess around with, and I know all the songs...

I have an 11 year old student who has been surly and difficult most of the time I've been teaching her (3 years). There have been so many lessons when I have thought "I can't do this any more!" I've suggested to her mum several times that she should perhaps take a break from lessons as she didn't seem to be enjoying them at all. Mum has always insisted that she does like playing and didn't want to stop lessons, but I was often almost driven to distraction by her attitude. When she went to secondary school, I thought the problem might get even worse (peer pressure etc) but that hasn't been the case. In fact, there has been a definate improvement in her attitude and although she's still the most difficult student I have (by a long way) both she and I have started to enjoy out time together! I suppose what I'm saying is that I could very easily have written her off and insisted that she stop lessons with me, but at long last I'm seeing results and am glad I persevered.

thanks I take encouragement from what you all have said, I won't give up on her yet but I can see its going to be a painful few weeks.. Despite her attitude I sometimes wonder if she lacks confidence, she is not very good at taking praise and although very bright is quick to doubt she can do something. I have tried to be as encouraging as possible but sometimes it is as if she is so scared to fail she'd rather not try. It is the sort of self doubt I would expect from a teenager not someone so young.

Does she have any friends who play the piano at all? Or is there another of your own pupils who would be willing to play a duet with her?

I thought along similar lines to Dulciana, how about arranging for your pupils to meet up if they don't already, even if just for an informal concert or something? Or maybe just a few of them get together and play for each other once a month (rotating whose lesson this happens in)? That way there will be peer pressure to stay as well as to leave if they do it often enough . Might be too late for this one, short notice to organise, but perhaps could influence people in the future.

my son has been just like this from age 10 (he has now turned 12 the other day), he started playing violin this January just gone, he wanted to take it up, he asked for the lessons, he asked for a 'cool' violin (the coloured one) about 2 to 3 months after he started lessons, then about a week after I bought him the 'metallic blue' violin (he was playing on mine before) he wanted to give it up! It was 'boring'...yet I could tell he was good at it and he actually enjoyed it (not as much as me, I can't stop playing it once I pick it up ).
I trusted my instinct and I put my foot down and said 'You are the one who wanted to take it up, I have not forced you into it or persuaded you in any way... I can see you are good at it and I can see you enjoy it' (of course he denied he did enjoy it). As my son has had a tendency in the past to take up things/do things for any silly reason out there but for the pure reason he 'did want to do it', I then told him that he should always say what he thinks of something, not what other people want him to say/think, that if you give the answer you think other people want to hear then one day it could get 'difficult'. I told him this in the past but he never took it seriously. He was now saying that he took up violin because he thought it would make me happy I didn't believe this for a minute as I could see him enjoying it. So I thought I'd teach him a lesson and said 'well, maybe, but now you have to face the consequences of your actions. I have told you in the past you should take things up if you think they are what you want to do, not what others want you to do...so now you have to stick with the violin, if you give it up I take away your 'privileges'' (meaning I would stop him from going on the computer etc). So he stuck with it.....the phase lasted about 3 max 4 weeks, now he wouldn't think of saying the violin is boring, when he practices he often does his 15 minutes (he was always required by me to do 15 mins practice every day) then he does not put away the violin like he used to, he leaves it out of its case, 10/15 mins later he picks it up again and plays for another 10 minutes, sometimes he does this a third time....this is all out of his own accord, I have not ever mentioned he should practice more than his 15 minutes He is now going to take his grade 1 in November (I think he was ready for this earlier but did not want to push him too much) and there's never any talk about the violin being boring

sorry to rant on, just felt like telling the story and giving one example of how sometimes children go through temporary 'bored phases', I also acknowledge that sometimes they are truly not interested in something, the parents 'should' be able to tell sooner or later which one is which (I know that for some sometimes it is easier said than done).

PS Soccermum, we also don't have a playstation or any other games console and never had one my child also watches CONSIDERABLY less tv than others and is restricted to half an hour computer time a day during 'school days', an hour at weekends I know of another parent like me from the school my son used to go to, we are a 'rare breed' but not alone

And what is so desperately wrong with a playstation?! My son preferred Nintendo Gamecube, so that's what we have. They are actually very good for teaching quick reactions and training you to look everywhere at once, which I suspect has a knock-on effect on things like piano sightreading. Certainly my son has always been very good at this, unlike some of his friends who were never allowed a playstation or even a TV (and consequently wanted to do nothing else when they came to our house!).

I think with any kind of toy or TV, it's good to limit the time a child spends. Mine went through an earlier phase where all he wanted to do was play with Lego, and again it wasn't encouraged for more than 1 1/2 hours at a stretch. He was quite likely at the age of 15 to play clarinet or piano for 2 hours at a stretch, which again I think is long enough - fortunately clarinet tends to be self-limiting, as the lip gives up in the end! But children do need to relax and have fun in the way they choose; parents can set the boundaries by e.g. limiting time spent or banning certain computer games, but I don't agree with banning certain toys (unless you can't afford a playstation, which is a different matter - I'm assuming it's more a principle).

Yes I think this might be a good idea in the future, although how do you stop it getting too competitive? I do worry they will start comparing each others progress in a bad way.

Thanks for your story Jojo, maybe there is hope...

Is it possible that the child is unhappy at home/school and it's being reflected in wanting to give up Piano?

It's difficult with children of this age, they are susceptable to pressure, it's not that they are adopting teen values early, more that they have expectations placed on them from a younger age.

On the point of Playstations, I resisted for a long time, then bought one for our youngest as the eldest was getting a keyboard. The playstation has never seriously been used, it's there plugged up to a TV. The keyboard ended up being the thing they both wanted to use. I have strange children

But in the nicest possible way.

Ah, but they're girls, notmusimum! I think if you had two boys, you'd be there with the rest of us having to limit screen time . I'm glad that other people limit their son's computer/playstation time to half an hour - that's what I do as well, but according to my sons no one else does (of course, that's what they all say).

I think it's true that boys get more addicted to screen games than girls. I try to limit the time they spend on these things, but in reality I'm now a voice in the wilderness that's ignored, now that they're older. We can't un-invent something that's there. But if I could go back in time I'd be stronger willed about ever bringing the things into the house.

My brother's time was limited, but he snuck around behind my mum's back all the time! As a good sister I didn't tell (he's my older brother, I looked up to him then...) but it meant that my time, and my sister's was very limited... He was always hogging the playstation! So now we're both well-read and hard working and things, due to reading and doing homework instead of procrastinating on the playstation, and he's... slightly hyper for an 18 year old, but has very good at hand eye coordination.

But that's unfair, I wouldn't want to leave you with the impression that my brother's not clever because he is...

I spend all my time on forums... But I do get things done as well.

I wuz never allowed any kind of game playing machine, and computer game time wuz always limited! And, to be honest, I think I'm better off for it... Now I tend to fill my time with far more constructive endeavours anyway.

I'm sure you haven't done anything to put this nine-year-old off! I have an eleven-year-old who came back after the holidays with absolutely zero motivation, from doing well before the long summer break. Sometimes it just happens - children are unpredicatable animals. In this case, a word from me to the parents, and a chat between the parents and child sorted it all out, and she made her own decision to carry on.

However, a few years ago I had a six / seven-year-old whose parents thought it would be nice for him to play fiddle tunes. But it soon became apparent that the child categorically did not agree! Lessons were ###### for several weeks, and I spoke to the parents. They wanted him to carry on, so I agreed on the condition that his mother sat in on the next few lessons. It only took one lesson for her to see that the whole thing was going absolutely nowhere, and she stopped the lessons (to my joy!)

If your nine-year old is being pushed, this might be a useful tactic to try. Even if she isn't, the parents probably don't realise how bad / negative lessons have got. If you are finding the lessons unbearable, it's stress you can do without, so perhaps a discussion with you, the parents and the child all together might be a way forward.

GOOD LUCK!!

Bear in mind...

When I started the piano, it was at the demand of my mother. I enjoyed the novelty for a few weeks, but then it got boring, and I started not to like it. I wouldn't practise properly, and I was scared my teacher would shout at me, and I would bang the piano and procrastinate until the latest hour. It was beyond having no motivation, I can assure you... Anyhoo, my mother kept on giving me lessons, and my teacher kept on getting me better, and, when I matured a bit and got a bit better, I actually started to enjoy it. Now I can say I am a pianist of a good standard and I enjoy my music. The moral - there are hard patches, and it may be necessary to push a child through them. Lack of motivation is no reason to give up!

thanks misterioso. Her lesson today was actually a bit better. She still professes to have no interest in anything we do and pretends to never play (though her mum told me she had actually been practising quite a bit). I thought her playing was a lot better this week too. I sometimes wonder if its all a strategey to take the pressure off - if she keeps telling her parents she hates piano then they won't expect too much - and they are a high achieving family. Anyway my new strategy is to keep the interest up with lots of new exciting things but to be as matter of fact about everything as possible. I think if there is no improvement in a few weeks I need to have a proper discussion with the child and parent together - like you suggest - esp as they both keep telling me different things.

Hope it all works out.