hey all, was reading replies from some of u who were encouraging me at my last topic about me being doubtful of my own standard of playing..

ive decided to really really work on it!! how can i not learn to do the vibrato if im going on to G6?? and vibrato will help in my intonation and stuff.. soooo... any tips on how to do vibrato??

my teacher has mentioned shifting from 1st to 5th position and back to 1st position.. slowly at first, then quicken up.. she says that movement is similar to vibrato.. i find that it doesnt really help me that much.. hmm..

thinking, maybe my wrist is too stiff?? but ive tried loosening up, and my whole violin started to shake as i attempt to do the vibrato.. hilarious haha.. any suggestions??

I think I would advise you to talk to your teacher about it. Mention you are worried about not being able to do it. The teacher may then teach you or explain why you should wait.

Vibrato is not a way of improving intonation. Intonation, basic left arm posture and shifting technique should all be secure before learning vibrato I think. Perhaps the new teacher is waiting to make sure everything else is correct first before doing vibrato. Don't worry about it I'm sure you will get onto it soon.

Far from it. Vibrato should never be used in an attempt to mask poor intonation either.

Or poor tone.

I think earplugs' advice is spot on - talk to your teacher, and make sure your basics are in place.

okok.. thank you all for ur advice.. will definitely work on it.

I thought vibrato was needed in Grade 5! That's what I was told.

Yes, that's what it says somewhere in the syllabus (the candidate should be "attempting" it). I had to learn it for my G5.

I "learned" it for grade 5, but was and am pretty poor at it.

ooo.. is it?? vibrato is needed for grade 5?? hmm.. this just shows how little i know of the syllabus.. ive never heard of this!! and no one told me that before too..

Yes definitely for Grade 5. It's the main reason for me stalling about taking it.

Anyway, the form is in now...I'm taking it next sesh.

Eeeeekkkk!!!

LOL.. er.. i wasnt told anything about vibrato when i was doing my grade 5 in 2003.. and i still did quite well.. lol.. i think i was so so so SO lucky..

anw.. my teacher has started teaching me vibrato!! the past few lessons were kinda 'hellish'.. working on a good vibrato is no joke!! but my teacher says there will come a time when everything clicks.. so im perservering and pushing on!!

Good luck Jane

Don't worry, when I first tried to do vibrato, I had that funny result of shaking my entire violin (eeek). Now it comes really natural to me =] Of course, do not get into that bad habit of covering bad intonation with vibrato! But if you have good intonation and good vibrato, it really does sound lovely.

Thanks... Feeling queasy now. My weakest piece is the one that needs oodles of 'espressivo' so must get that arm wobbling.

Someone told me that vibrato is like a Eureka moment. You struggle for ages and them one day BAM you can just do it. I keep getting up in the morning wondering if today is BAM day - not happened yet

Me??? I think I am set for a career as Baroque violinist (there are worse things to be after all, move over Manze!!)

And then you spend the next several years unable to switch it off when it's not wanted.

In all honesty I didn't learn to do vibrato, I just sort of 'picked it up'. I was playing in an orchestra for the first time and it was insisited upon us that we had to use vibrato. I could only 'wobble' a bit, but I gave it a go. About a year later my teacher spent a lesson explaining different excersises to me, and something 'clicked' soon after that.

That's similar to one of the excersises I was reccommended. Slide (literally, keep your finger on the string) from 1st to 5th, then 1st to 4th, 1st to 3rd and so on, until your finger isn't actually changing position but the movement is the same. It's really hard to explain (easier to demonstrate) but it helps to get your hand moving correctly.

Sorry, can't remember if this was suggested before, but you could try placing your violin against the wall, which means that you can make your hand a lot looser when trying vibrato. It gives you an idea of how to produce the right sound, and you can transfer that to when your playing whilst holding the violin yourself.

But yes, your teacher should be able to help you, particularly if they know you're concerned. Good luck.

Which pieces are you doing?


Mine hasn't happened yet either.......

Thank you MissRoss!!

your reply was extremely informative!!

Degli Antoni - Con affetto
Bridge - Berceuse
Sugar - Air and Pizzicato

I think all three have appeared at a forum concert at some point! (sans vibrato!)

But how is it possible to do this without having your finger slide up and down? If I try to keep my grip loose, it slides - if I make it firmer, my wrist won't move.
*Gets very depressed*

W

Cool - I think I've heard you play the Sugar, and I think there was a forum recording of the Con affetto?

I seem to remember the Sugar being rather groovy

I know the feeling. I can't keep all my fingers down and vib. Any attempt at vibrato and I can only do it with one finger and I have to release my thumb a bit too, and then the whole thing feels very unstable.

Third finger on A on the E string I can do...anything else (especially low positions, low notes like G# on the G string) are impossible. And anything shorter than a breve really I can't do...I need some time to get it going .

Anyway should the wrist move or should you move your arm from the elbow? I guess you need to be able to do both, and then there is the finger vibrato useful for those really silly high positions (but I'm not going up there yet, at least not without oxygen).

Baroque is surely the answer.

Ahhh vibratos a devil!
I too, cannot do it very well!
x

Yes, I agree - I've just had my Eureka/BAM moment! I literally got up one morning after months of trying and there it was!

Now I've just got to learn to use it and control it because it's still sometimes a bit heavy-handed and clumsy, not to mention a bit slow (blink and you'll miss it) but it's there.. it looks correct in the mirror and my teacher says I've 'got it'!!!! I've got to concentrate properly to use it and if the music is too fast I've got no hope - actually I'm only managing it on minims so far and yet some people can vibrate on a quaver? Oh and it's really hard to get properly even and to remember to stop the note in the right place so maybe the difficult bit is just starting....

*feels all grown up*

am i doing it wrong if my shoulder gets tired easily?

i feel as if im gripping the violin between my neck and shoulders too tight..

my teacher says my SLOW vibrato looks good/correct..

Jas, if you feel like you're gripping your instrument, that could be the reason why you can't do vibrato. A good vibrato requires the violinist to be tension-free.

I can't seem to do the whole 'violin scroll against the wall' thing. My scroll ALWAYS starts slipping. Why?

My vibrato is so slow.... will it speed up with time and practice?

Yes, it will! Honestly. I never believed it would either, but it does. Mind you, I spent ages learning it and then switched to trad music, so I never really use it anymore. To get my money's worth, I play loads of slow airs and fill them with the most dripping, gooey vibrato you ever heard - this usually causes all kinds of raised eyebrows, mimed suicide attempts and false crying (complete with loud nose-blowing noises in beer towels) from my fellow sessionneers, but I'm determined to use it after years of trying to get it!

True, vibrato is often born out of a 'bam' moment, one day you can suddenly do it.
Good vibrato comes from good, relaxed posture and a firm finger on the finger board. Not too much tension is required with grip of the left thumb and grip of the instrument by the neck. It's about as being relaxed as possible. I wonder if pressing the scroll of the instrument hard against the wall is effective, sounds more like a punishment for not practising scales, to me!
A little exercise I do with pupils having trouble with vibrato is to place their right hand against the left cheek so the thumb and forefinger are touching the cheek wth palm faced down. The left fingers in turn press as firmly into the back of the right hand as you would on the instrument. Then with a relaxed left wrist, revolve the hand in circles using the left finger tip as a pivot, gradually changing the circular motion to a 'left and right' vibrato. Then continuing this motion I will bring the right hand away from the cheek until the pupil is able the make the motion at a distant similar to that which the instrument would be. This gives a good sense of how the vibrato should feel and have had quite a few 'bam' moments with this method.
It's particularly good with full arm vibrato on the viola, but it can be used for wrist vibrato more suitable for the violin.

Stand nearer the wall!

Just to say, this particular bit of advice has been really effective in my endless quest for a good vibrato! Don't know why I have had such difficulty achieving it, but this has helped a lot , thank you. I look forward to playing without that awful 'Oh no here comes the vibrato and I can't do it" feeling, some time soon.
N

Good luck! There's a lot of helpful advice here. I learnt vibrato when I was younger, I remember my tutor spent weeks and weeke explaining it to me and showing me how to do it in slow motion but I just couldn't do it. Then one day, it just clicked and I could do it. It's one of those things that just happens! Your moment will come.

I'm so close to the wall that my violin is like just in between my neck and the wall. The violin feels like it kind of gets 'lifted' off my shoulder.

I wouldn't recommend this, you'll do yourself a mischief!
If you feel you must have the instrument supported, ask someone to do hold it for you.

I've given up the scroll against the wall thing. I don't really use it. Hehe.

Still waiting for mine...

Me too!

Ah vibrato. Impossible to teach, but easy to do once you get the hang of it. Then it becomes 2nd nature. I have to try hard NOT to do it when required.

I'm in the process of trying to relearn vibrato! I have returned to the viola after 18 years and my teacher says my vibrato is too tight, and comes from the wrist. The viola vibrato should ideally be a full arm vibrato and much more looser and relaxed.

Learning vibrato the first time around was difficult, but going back to the beginning and starting again is near impossible! I'm spending most of my practice sessions watching my technique in the mirror!

I know the feeling!
On violin I can produce and use an effective sound vibrato - but unfortunately it's wrong... Back to the drawing board - and SO hard not to lapse into it...

W

I'm not sure I agree with this - there are several different types of vibrato, which can loosely be described as 'finger', 'wrist' and 'arm'. It's best to be able to do all three but many good violinists can manage quite well with just one or two of them. Some people reckon they all end up as 'finger' vibrato in the end, and I personally find a wide vibrato a bit irritating after a while, and I'm certainly not alone in this. I also think you have to be careful not to over-use vibrato, Fritz Kreisler being the only violinist who got away with it in my view.

I still have to concentrate to use my junior version of vibrato. Sometimes I can do all my practice, scales and pieces, and I've not used it at all. It's like I forgot to hit the 'vibrato' switch. I suppose it will take some time to become second nature because it still requires serious thought

OH... and FOURTH finger vibrato - what a cruel and evil torture THAT is????!!!!!!! Nope - my fourth finger just flatly refuses

Not the end of the world though - shifts evidently come into play here for some violinists!

*here's hoping*

How'd you work that one out??!

4th finger vibrato = evil I agree!

Yea it's just plain evil. At the moment, I can only do vibrato on the 4th finger on the A string. It's non-existent in all other strings. However, my teacher says he'll give me some exercises to help me. =) So I hope my Eureka comes soon!!!

I'm a pretty fast typist despite the fact that I only use 2 fingers - maybe I can get away with only 3 fingers on the violin?

*Do typists make good musicians? *

Maybe we should have a

"We can't do Vibrato (yet!)" club

Can I join?

I think musicians might make good typists... I taught myself to touch-type at 60 wpm in just about three months. But then that was on the back of hard graft on the piano for years

(The touch typing was one of the best things I ever did as I was never out of a job all through university when I lived in the city. )

You know, one of my BIGGEST fears in the whole wide world is arthritis in my fingers because I just do so much with them. I actually faint if I even so much as nick my hand on something. I'm also ambidextrous and can write with my left hand and my right (although my left's a bit out of practice these days). I'm right handed but still thread needles etc with my left. I put that down to years and years of 'Hanon' finger exercises on the piano.