... the reason I ask this question is that I have been given a job to teach after-school Keyboard Club, starting soon. It sounds like such a ridiculous question but seriously... is there a difference? There are only 6 kids to a class so they will all get their own keyboards to use during the class, and they all have keyboards at home. But I have heard professional Pianists saying that there definitely is a difference.

Any tips/ideas?

Are you serious??? There IS a difference between the two. Are you sure you should be taking this job?

Not meaning to offend.

I briefly considered keyboard teaching at one point but I really am not interested enough to really get to know how to play it properly so apart from basic music reading and howq to play a few tunes I don't think I'd be too much help to anyone with a real interest in the keyboard as an instrument in it's own right. Chances are that there wouldn't be too many who wanted much more than that but I wouldn't feel too comfortable with it.

Incedentally I now have to play on a keyboard for our new monthly Cafe Church and someone was asking me if it's the same as the piano. I can assure you that it's not the same to play at all even if you are playing it as a piano substitute...... I do tend to play it too much 'like a piano' and it doesn't really work too well technique wise.

Well....

As a Grade 5 Pianist myself (and hey, as a musician!) I know the clear and obvious differences! Like the construction (duh), touch sensitivity issues, keyboards produce different sounds, etc. I don't literally mean the difference between a Piano and a digital Keyboard! That's not what I meant! I should have phrased my question properly...

What I meant was (deep breath)... obviously it is preferable for children to learn the Piano ON a Piano, not a keyboard. But where this isn't possible and they use keyboards, are there differences in teaching approach that I will need to use in order to make sure they still get the same benefit? I am used to teaching beginner piano ON a piano, not on Keyboard. I found it a bit weird but understandable that they want me to teach 'Keyboard' as opposed to Piano, what with resources etc. But a Piano is a Piano, and a Keyboard is a Keyboard.....

Does that make sense? I think it's getting a bit late for me, and I don't blame you for being incredulous after reading back the question I wrote!

I've played keyboard at advanced level, and I can tell you that there is a huge difference between keyboard and piano. Keyboard requires very different technique (more related to organ than piano). In my opinion a piano teacher should only teach keyboard if he is aware of what the differences are and is able to teach the specifics of keyboard. Otherwise the lessons can be very frustrating for the students (I'm speaking from experience here). So I advice you that if you decide to take this job to make a thorough study of the keyboard, and maybe take a few lessons yourself first. Good luck!

EDIT: aspiringmusicteacher you have a very good point with the "Piano is a Piano, and a Keyboard is a Keyboard....." statement. This is a thing many people underestimate!

If it's called a keyboard club and they all have keyboards at home don't they want to learn keyboard rather than piano?
Though I do appreciate that the school might not think that there is much difference.
I'm not sure that I'd like to be put in the positon of teaching piano in this way.

keyboard playing is different to piano playing, I think keyboard playing is based a lot more on chords than piano, not sure if I am explaining myself well here. I have a friend who is learning keyboard at a yamaha school and her books and what she does is all different from what I do with piano playing, she plays a lot of chords on left hand, all together, not broken. Again, not sure if I am making myself clear here, but keyboard playing is definitely a school on its own, different from piano playing.

I did think earlier when I was talking to the teacher who wants to hire me (who is a Suzuki Violinist apparently) that I hope he knows there is a distinct difference. I don't play the 'Keyboard' I play the Piano and teach Beginner Piano. Alarm bells were raised when he didn't acknowledge that there was a difference....

I will certainly do some reading and playing of keyboards before I start, I don't want to take a position if I think my teaching of the Keyboard will hinder then children rather than help!

I also got offered a job teaching at a local keyboard school.

After sitting in on a class, I decided against it, more because I felt 9 pupils at once could not learn effectively. I wanted to help the stragglers, but realised once I was in charge of the class, there wouldn't be time for that, which would annoy me If I hadn't been already used to having pupils one-on-one it might not have bothered me so much.

As I teach mainly classical piano, a big difference for me was how they actually went about learning the music. There was a little emphasis on reading treble clef, but almost none on bass clef. The chords would be written in instead, off the stave. The beginner classes were mainly just filling in tonic triads but I'm sure they'd progress with improvising at a later stage. Rhythm was taught via "listen and copy" only, with no real explaination as to how the rhythms they played related to the music they were supposed to be reading.

There's also the matter of all the functions on the keyboard and knowing how to use them... They were expected to change voices on the instument to suit what they were playing.

The repertoire was fairly modern throughout, as I'd expected.

Just very different in general! I'll take my piano any day




Also, and please don't think I'm being rude - you may have duet parts to play along etc... that are a higher standard than grade 5, so check out exactly what you'll be expected to do so you know you can cope OK.

I guess it depends whether they will give you a set "program" of teaching, or whether you plan lessons yourself.

This is exactly what I would understand as teaching keyboard. Its more about chordal accompaniment I think and also I am not sure whether keyboard students ever read the bass clef. My only experience of it was being handed a keyboard student (without being informed!!!) in a music school and having an embarrassing time muddling through her book trying to get the gist of how it's done. I know nothing of keyboard technique, and would certainly never take a keyboard student now.

Goodness, this is actually really getting me thinking now.... I knew there was a difference but not this big! I at least presumed they would be learning Bass Clef!!! And rhythm! And notation of some form at least!

What I know is that the last teacher taught from a set of books called The Young Beginners Series... anyone seen these before? What are they like?

I came on the understanding that they would let me teach Piano and give the kids a sense of rhythm and notation etc, a bit of a grounding. Including Bass Clef. I suppose I could be really cheeky and change a few things and apply some of my ideas....

I don't think that lack of notation reading (including bass clef) or understanding of how the chords are made up is particularly good practice even though it might not always happen. And I think that a good rhythmic awareness is essential to be able to play along to rhythms so work on pulse and rhythm would be very important.

Shows what a rubbish keyboard teacher I would be...I hadn't even thought of the beats etc!!!

That's it, now I remember, my friend who learns keyboard with the Yamaha school, has this book which has only one stave with treble clef and on top of this the chords are written I think, when I looked at her book I didn't have the faintest idea how I would play what I had in front and she doesn't have a clue how to play from my piano books!
she also does push this button and that button according to what she plays to get different accompaniments etc

You can play (and teach and learn) piano on a good keyboard, though the real thing is better. You can't play (or teach or learn) keyboard on a piano.

What a great summary...

I taught keyboard for quite a while, although my piano students outnumbered my keyboard ones by quite a bit. I didn't enjoy it much, and stopped this year when I finally had enough piano pupils to afford it. Here's a few bits and pieces I found:

[Note, other folk may disagree, or have come up with better methods, but anyway...]

1. In the early stages, keyboard is harder for beginners than piano, not easier.I found this strange, and difficult to explain to parents, but from a pianist's point of view you should understand. Kids beginner books tend to start them off with just a note or two in each hand, then add another, have a page of getting to know that, then add another etc. It's very gradual, and you don't move onto the next bit until you're familiar with the last. Keyboard books tend to dive straight in with a beginner using all five right hand notes (C-G) in the first tune.

2. Keyboard books sometimes discourage note reading.At least two tutor's I've used in the past made it a habit of writing the note names next to the notes. It would be written by the first of a row of repeated notes, and then by every change. This goes on for a book and a half and then suddenly they stop it, and the pupil's crutch is gone - and you discover that they can't read the music!

3. Learning keyboard has more stages per piece than piano. Again this is something that affects beginners mostly. I can sit down, look at and play most keyboard music at sight, chords, backing and melody, but beginners don't have that luxury. If you're learning a piano piece from scratch, as a beginner, usually you try both hands seperatly until they're fairly comfortable, then put them together. [So, 3 stages, left, right, together]. With the keyboard though, there's the added complication of the beat, so learning a new tune becomes, right hand, right hand with the beat, left hand chords, left hand chords with the beat, hands together without the beat, and hands together with the beat...
They might be working on a couple of those at the same time (hands sep. with the beat and together without) and more advanced students may be able to cut some out - say, skip the "together without the beat" stage - but the whole thing is a lot more fiddly. Which means each piece takes that bit longer to learn. Drove me nuts...

4. The beat itself causes problems. Now, some of this will be no trouble at all for someone who perhaps already learns another instrument, and particularly if that instrument is piano, but for absolute beginners who expect keyboard to be the easy option, the beat is just a nuisance. The tutor books don't give much attention to explaining the concept of the pulse, and it's surprising how many people just can't hear it. So when they put the melody and chords against the beat/style of the machine itself, they tend to just play on at their own pace while the keyboard rattles on itself. Almost any musician listening can find the start of each bar (knew there was a purpose to all that aural...) but beginners really don't understand it, and they're already struggling just with the lengths of notes as it is [since the books tend to introduced quavers and dotted rhythms pretty quickly too].

Anyway, this has degenerated into a bit of a rant, so I think I'll stop. I think many keyboard tutors seem to assume a level of musical ability or knowledge that perhaps just isn't there. I've also had pupils come to me from other teachers/schools who have had lessons for a couple of years and never been taught to use the beat - but then if you're not going to do that, why not just learn the piano...?

Bah humbug...

Really, I think asides from the music teaching, teaching in groups is a skill in itself.

I have done some group teaching on keyboard - also not my instrument I am a pianist - it really is something else. You can't see what every student is doing, found this from observing some lessons actually and you do get troublesome groups, 4 girls who don't want to be there is awful (I am used to 1 on 1 with pleasant students). I am a full time piano teacher, but found myself worrying over repetoire and buttons all the time.

I am aware that there are a lot of benefits to group tuition, but I don't really think that they outweigh the negatives when keyboard instruments are concerned.

Some keyboard teacher start with a piano tutor to deal with the basics on note reading, pulse, rhythm that you mentioned as being potentially problematic with a keyboard tutor Alder.
Once these are in place you can think about adding the beat.

Do your students want to learn the keyboard, or the piano?

If they are really interested in playing the piano, but simply don't have the money/space etc, then maybe it would be in their interest to teach piano using the keyboards. Obviously you would need to be aware that they won't develop as a normal piano student because their keyboards won't have the touch and feel of an acoustic piano, and they would need to be aware that you won't be using all the bells and whistles available on their keyboards.

Hi Judith...

To be honest, though the school is very musicial, they only have 2 Piano's one on each floor of the school. And they have 8-10 keyboards. So they rationalise that it's the same thing and call it 'Keyboard' when actually they want me to teach the Piano...

I haven't had a chance to look at the Young Beginners Series yet though so that would give me an idea on what it is they really want.... has anyone else had experience of it?

Speaking purely for myself as a pupil; when they find Beehovens sonata for keyboard, or Chopin's Keyboard study, or Brahm's keyboard concerto then maybe I'll want to learn keyboard. In the meantime the repertoire for piano is just so vast and so wonderful, why would I want to learn keyboard? Given that I also learn the flute, play guitar and sing at folk clubs, teach and play chess and hold down a full time job, when would I learn keyboard?

I taught keyboard for a few years; it's very different to teaching the piano. There are several tutor books specifically for teaching keyboard; one is The Complete Keyboard player by Kenneth Baker, can't remember the name of the other one I used. Why don't you pop along to a music shop and have a browse through some of the tutors before you decide whether to take it on or not?

You don't learn bass clef at first. You do treble clef tunes with the right hand and play chords (specified above the stave) with the left hand. The tutors show you how to form the chords. You apply different settings for rhythm and accompaniment backgrounds using buttons on the keyboard. You can also do exams on the keyboard with the London College of Music. As you proceed up the grades you gradually introduce the bass clef until you are playing quite complex pieces with both hands, and changing registrations as well. And, of course, there are the pedals - sustaining and volume.

Although I've never looked into what is entailed in teaching keyboard, I've heard that it is based mainly on a chord accompaniment with pop tune in the right hand...you also have the added feature of changing instumental sounds/oohs and rhythms of varying styles. The improvisatory option is also important, depending on the program. Unfortunately, I may be crossing over sensitive lines here, but I seem to end up with students who have a 'pop' book and piano, or students with a keyboard and 'classical' (Beginner level) books. I'm also a 'softy', so turning away students because they can only access a keyboard is out of the question.....

I feel the same. Recently, I've tried to improve my improvisation skills at the piano, and have found it good fun, but at the same time, I'm glad that I can sight read both staves. The idea of teaching how to harmonise at a keyboard is one I'm be happy to extend into piano lessons to improve aural ability and awareness of key, but I still insist on sight reading as well.

For me, it's more the sound of the keyboard that puts me off, as that style just wouldn't be my personal taste. With the little boys in particular, it's bad enough trying to get them to stop playing with the sustaining pedal on the piano... I can't imagine having to cope with simulated machine-gun fire and jungle drums as well

My teacher started out playing the 'keyboard' when he was 4 and didn't play much of anything but 'keyboards' until much later when he started to also play on a pianoforte keyboard.

In fact he played three staffs / keyboards at a time, using his feet as soon as he could reach, played lots of lots of Bach, became expert at counterpoint, developed superior coordination and virtuoso technique, performed publicly from a tender age, etc.

None of this prevented him from becoming an excellent pianist and graduating suma cum laude from Conservatory on the piano.

What keyboard did he play? A multitude of various church pipe organs.

His 4 year old son now receives lessons on a Yamaha P140 electronic keyboard rather than the Steinway B at home (fits a child much better in terms of size and even moveability of pedals) and is crazy about playing organ music on it with his father. He also will likely grow to be an accomplished pianist.

If there were more piano teachers who considered themselves music teachers rather than narrowly defined, sometimes snobbish piano teachers, and who took the time to invest in themselves to learn about what motivates children today and the latest technology whether it is digital pianos that emulate a piano so well, or keyboards more in the sense brought forward earlier in this thread, then more families would have access, more children could be touched by music and more teachers could enjoy a better income.

The most important difference is in our head.

Although doubtless there are teachers with this attitude there are also those who, like me, acknowledge that the electonic keyboard is an instrument in it's own right but haven't either the time or sufficient interest to learn it throroughly enough to feel happy about teaching it.

I did have some keyboard lesson with my previous teacher who knew how to play it properly but never was really motivated enough to give it much time.

I do take on piano students who only have a keyboard to practice on but point out that as it's piano I'm teaching they will be better thinking of getting a piano (digital if necessary) by the end of 2 years.

Yes, I have quite a few who practise on keyboards as well, and some students have the odd lesson on my own digital piano just for a change - it gets them used to different touches.

Despite what they practise on, they are essentially learning piano skills with me (improvisation is included in that). I'm just not able to show them how to program their own keyboards at home, and use all the various functions, as I don't own a keyboard.

It's just personal preference really in my case. I mainly teach piano, so it seems fitting enough to call myself a piano teacher - there's certainly no snobbery involved

[size=3]I have a keyboard with a grand piano function and play classical piano music on it (yes both clef and bass lines). I think it sounds pretty good, thank you. The action is of course much easier on the finger, and there is probably less of a risk with contracting injuries such as carpal tunnel. You can control the volume, of course, especially when it matters, such as late night practice when the neighbors are sleeping. You can carry it anywhere you want; it never gets out of tune, and is much cheaper for those who don’t want to make the big investment.
Of course the intriguing aspect about the keyboard is that it is also a computer, and those who know how to operate the functions can get an array of sounds, color, accompaniments, a combination of all of these and more, best suitable if you want to create your own music, for whatever purposes. Must be great if you make videos and need sounds effect, moods, and such. But I wouldn’t know anything about that.
I’m not an expert on acoustics; therefore, in my humble opinion I will say that the piano gives a fuller, more resonant sound, with the full effects of sympathetic notes. And, of course, allows a far more expressive modulation of the sound. And that’s as much as I am allowed to say and that kettle of fish.

Of course, playing the keyboard is not the same as playing the piano. It’s just feel different, and it take a while to get used to playing each. But I don’t believe there are any laws prohibiting doing any of it. So, it’s simply your god give choice to try pick what best suits you.

I really wouldn't have a clue where to begin with teaching keyboard as opposed to piano, and, as such, have always regarded the keyboard as what the younger ones sometimes practise on until they show enough commitment for their parents to buy a real piano! I suppose that makes me one of the piano snobs that inlovinit was talking about!

Having said that, I do have a couple of books that are more geared towards 'keyboard' skills, which I touch on from time to time to add a bit of variety to lessons and encourage improvisation. For instance, learning the basic chords in simple keys for the LH to play while the RH makes something up, in order to learn a little about harmony and maintaining a particular key signature.

Well said. Teachers who don't teach where they know they don't have the requisite knowledge to do so properly should be applauded, not sniped at.

Yes, one could teach a new instrument called keyboard using built in chords and spend lots of time on electronic bells and whistles. That could indeed take perhaps a good deal of effort to master. I personally wouldn't want to go very far down that road either.

However, especially in the earlier years of learning, the digital piano keyboard can be just another tool comparable to (and in a number of ways superior to) an inherited, creaking spinet for teaching piano. To do so, there is very little to learn or do than to be open to the possibility.

If a teacher has more business than they can handle teaching piano their way or the highway, I say great!

If, however,
they would like more business,
want to understand options created today by technology including allowing silent practice,
want to reach more families, including those who can't afford a piano yet,
want to perhaps better relate to kids living in the year 2007,
while expanding their own personal horizons,

I would say let us applaud their efforts to invest in themselves and learn more about the possibilities of incorporating digital pianos and potentially other electronic keyboards into a course of instruction.

A digital piano is quite different from a keyboard. Most teachers I know are perfectly happy to teach on a decent digital piano, and indeed I know teachers who only own digitals, and people who have taken high grade exams and even diplomas without an acoustic to their name. That is quite different from being wary about teaching keyboard, which is a different instrument.

I think the original post related to teaching keyboard, as in a keyboard syllabus, which requires the chords and backing beats etc.

I don't think the majority of teachers were complaining about the physical instrument as such, more saying that they were unqualified to teach it or were not interested in going down that route.

A few of my younger pupils practice on keyboards because of issues of household space or because parents don't want to shell out for such an expensive instrument at the outset. Those who don't have space practice on their grandparents' pianos and those who are nervous about spending the money usually do so after two years. The keyboard certainly is useful to a piano teacher for that. In the long term though, to learn piano technique and be able to play proper piano music to a good standard a good digital (weighted keys etc) or real piano is a definite must. Otherwise fingers simply won't develop.

But teaching 'keyboard' as most of us understand it does entail an entirely different approach and syllabus. Most piano teachers can generally find sufficient pupils without needing learn keyboard too. And as Sarah already said, really they shouldn't unless they know what they're at!

I don't mean to be rude, but at grade 5 how can you seriously consider teaching others to play the piano or keyboard. I passed G8 and wouldn't dream of teaching anyone to play the piano. Unless you are a properly trained piano teacher surely you will be passing on all your many playing imperfections, poor sight reading techniques, unorthodox fingering etc. Surely you should be advancing your own studies to say AB teaching diploma level. Give it some thought!!

When I am able hopefully to teach the piano in a few years, I will have to go to the pupils homes and will only be able to teach those who do have a piano because I would not be able to teach on a keyboard because I wouldn't have a clue how and the piano is my preferred instrument, just as in other cases for other people the keyboard is their preferred instrument. Perhaps I am being a piano snob, but that is just how it is for me.

Thank you for all your replies!

I went and had a look in the music shop at some keyboard books... what doesn't help is that there isn't any uniformity with regards to how to teach/play keyboard, like you would expect with Piano. The best I found was by Boosey and Hawkes at £12.99, and it went through things like notation, pulse and rhythm WHILST learning the basic keyboard skills. I was a bit dubious abuot some I saw because with all the best efforts, they were written by Pianists by the looks of it, not keyboard players, especially the little tutors you get. The more advanced books looked really good though.

After reading the books I felt like I could do it to be honest, that the Piano skills I have would be enough, and I started gaining a little confidence. Although after reading some of these replies they have made me a bit despondant... so now half of me feels like I should go for it, and half of me feels like I'm not going to be good enough or that I shouldn't even try!!! I totally understand all your points though, but I suppose as a musician and a teacher I want to teach the children in the best way for them, and if people say I can't do that it makes me think twice about doing it....


Ooooh I'm all confused!!!

just looked at your qualifications and you obviously have a lot of musical training and experience. What level would you be teaching to and when would you have to start?

In response to Roger's comment, I imagine that with your music degree etc you probably play piano at a higher level than Grade 5 but have only ever taken exams to that level?

At the end of the day its really up to you, especially as we cannot know all the details like what the students are like and what your skills are like. I would say if you are very confused to speak to your piano teacher, he/she is likely to be the best judge or where you're at and whether its a good idea.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Aspiringmusicteacher

I don't know whereabouts you live but at Benslow (www.benslow.org) they are running a two day "Electronic Keyboard Course" from 6 - 8 June. Benslow if a lovely place in Hitchin, Hertfordshire, solely devoted to short music courses. Thought yo might be interested in having a look at this.

The biggest difference is that keyboard is chord-based and uses pop notation - It wouldn't be too difficult to learn the chords needed for a beginners class - you should be able to teach them C,F, & G7, straight away then Am, Dm & Em later on. Moving on to the keys of G & F eventually. I can't imagine you'd get beyond that in an after school class.

It's funny you should say that Alicia...

I have just spoken to the person who wants me to take the job. I made it clear that I am a Pianist of Grade 5 standard, maybe a bit more because I have been practicing a bit lately and because I played during my degree occasionally. I said I wasn't a Keyboard player and I wanted to know what it was he expected of me before I made any real commitment to the job, so I don't end up passing on innaccuracies from a Pianist's point of view (and not the best qualified one he could get either) rather than a Keyboardist.

Now he says the deal is this; the children can't afford a Piano at home, and they only have one on each floor of the school. He wants to bring me in to teach PIANO on the KEYBOARD. I explained how risky this could be because they are 2 very different instruments, and if I took the job I was going to teach them from a perspective that means I'll be teaching basic notation, a few tunes in the right hand, and chords in the left hand. If it were a Piano lesson it would be different completely... I also made sure that they would have performance opportunities in concerts etc, and that at some point they would use a Piano where allowed.

But this has to be honest left the agenda sooo wide open now. The way it will be is in 3 classes, one pair, another pair, and a 3, for half an hour each group. I initially thought I was getting an hour with each group and there would only be 2 groups, but half an hour with 3 groups seems too little? 45mins seems more reasonable...

Confused???

Very. In your first post you said you'd been asked to teach at a Keyboard Club. To me this means teaching the tunes (RH) with chords in LH and using the buttons to provide rhythms and accompaniments i.e teaching the keyboard. Now you've been told you're not teaching a Keyboard club at all but are being asked to teach the kids to play the piano, but using electronic keyboards rather than pianos. I'm not surprised you're confused. Both are possible but I think you need to clarify with the person who asked you to take the job exactly what they want - it sounds as though they don't know there is a difference between teaching Keyboard as an instrument in its own right, and teaching piano using a keyboard as a substitute for the piano. Hope you get it sorted

Yes! good luck, hope it works out for you!

There's a girl in my class at school who is G1 elec keyboard...and she insists she can't play piano as she only plays the keyboard... I had to seriously persuade her to get her to play piano in a class composition...

I had a (piano) lesson this afternoon and one of the things we concentrated on was correct pedalling - I realised that I am going to have real problems with this as I do most of my practice on a digital, where the pedals are quite a different deal: The message here is that you can only go so far teaching/learning piano on a keyboard!

That's true. I love my digital piano, but the pedals don't make nearly such a huge difference to the sound as they do on the acoustic. Then again, on nearly every acoustic I've played, the feel of the pedals takes a bit of getting used to.

I'd certainly rather my pupils played on a digital piano than a keyboard, but I'll always choose the acoustic to play on myself. The digital is for when I don't want to disturb people - I am pretty impressed with it in general though