Hi,

Apart from Petrat and me, has anyone heard sight or sound of Andrew Martin, user name ajm3212.

He was due to run a music holiday for diploma holders in october over at his place, el pavo real in spain during Ocotber, but due to reasons beyond his control has had to cancel.

Now Petrat and I have been left out of pocket.

I urgently need to get in contact to discuss the fall-out and how things can be reconciled with my insurer. Petrat too would like her deposit back.

Whilst we have every sympathy with the guy, we currently are out of pocket, a state of affairs that most practicing muscians cannot afford to be.

Please, if anyone has got contact details and can get through (alas I've tried phoning with no success) please would you PM either Petrat or me.

Thank you

JoD

According to his profile he's not been on forums since the 6th of September. Have you tried PMing him? (Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, I just had an entire lesson being taught to do just that in case it wasn't obvious to anyone else )

Hopefully he'll spot this post and get in touch with you though. Hope its quickly though! Must be worrying for you

I don't know much about him but if he's based in Granada, there's an e-mail contact address which you might already have, listed with a postal address - I found both via Google. Hope it gets resolved.

The web site doesn't mention that it's been cancelled.

Funny, I was thinking only a couple of days ago that his series of concerts must be due to start, and thinking it had gone a bit quiet ... bad luck to anyone who's involved.

It was due to be on in October and it is a great shame that it went haywire. I had been looking forward to it and had even memorized all of my repertoire! Ah well. Perhaps it is postponed rather than cancelled. If you read this please get in contact Andrew.

Possibly a stupid suggestion but are there any contact details on the website? Or maybe if you contact the mods, they can do something?

Where do you think I got the telephone number from?

No need to be tetchy, Nicki is just trying to help.

How is anyone to guess where you got it from. I assumed you had full address and contact details plus all sort of other reassurances before you sent any money.

Sorry if that sounds cruel. I remember the posts and he did seem genuine enough. In fact he probably is genuine and will sort it all out very soon. I am sorry if you are out of pocket but try not to get angry with others who are trying to help.

He was on here earlier today so I hope he replied to his PMs or contacted you then.

Thanks Hazel.

Petra and I spoke at length earlier today, and I think the thing we have objected to the most was that he hasn't been straight with us. As we've done more feretting around a different story has imerged.

Both of us have sent Personal Messages, Petra last sent one today, and we've had no reply thus far.

Andrew has been on the forum today. I hope that he will be in contact very soon. It seems that he may not be in Spain now but setting up a teaching practice much nearer to home. Andrew, please will you respond to our PMs. That deposit will buy quite a few bales of hay for my boys.

Have I got the right website ? it appears to claim that ...

In 2007 we are running two courses for advanced singers and instrumentalists - to be eligible you should be at diploma level of performance. In 2008 we will continue to run the advanced course, but in addition we will offer courses musicians of Grade 7-8 standard and also Adult learners from Grade 3 - 6.

and gives two holiday dates for this year, one in September and the other in October. Nothing about these having been cancelled or postponed as far as I can see.

I remember the posts too. I remember taking issue with him over his claim that his holiday offer "was not for financial profit". If you don't get your money back immediately, I would contact the police and ask them to look into whether theft or fraud has taken place.



If he *is* back in this country and setting up a teaching practice, has that happened overnight or has he had plenty of time already let you know the holiday wouldn't be happening and to send you your money back?

Oh someway we will get out money back. Instead of calling the police as the sum is significant enough not to loose, but small enough too then if necessary we can serve writs against him.

Of course I'd much rather resolve this without the county courts getting involved, but as I have a copies of all correspondence including the cheque number of the cheque I sent applying a garnishing order should any case go against him would be relatively easy.

As Petra and I know that Andrew has been logged onto the forums yesterday, it would be better for him to reply now rather than risk further action.

We heard from his on Sept 3rd when he was asking if we could confirm some travel details. We heard again on Sept 6th that his course had been cancelled. I have traced him to a piano practice in England. I am awaiting his response. I have also found out that his hotel in Spain had been put on the market some time before he asked for our deposits to be paid. I am not happy that he has not kept us in the full picture about this course. I have some sympathy for him but his lack of reply to several emails is beyond anything that my patience will tolerate now.

Oh dear...I'm sorry for both of you. I really hope you can get this sorted out amicably without having to resort to the courts.

It's annoying that he's not responding though...hopefully it's because he can't rather than won't.

I haven't sent of my ISM application yet. Interesting Andrew is claiming he is a member so I can track him down via a colleague.

However small claims are a known territory. I don't want to take it to court either, but if needs must...

Normally if I have got into disputes over money, then I've been able to sort them out amicably, lets hope that this will be the same this time. (By the time you get to my age you normally have some experience some how especially if you run your own business.)


Petra and I are in regular contact, which is a good thing. United we stand and everything!

I have just sent him yet another message, this time by way of the UK Piano site where he is also registered as a piano accompanist. I hope to hear something soon. If anyone knows Andrew please could you tell him to check his emails.

Petra you have mail (PM) which I'm sure you'll find interesting.

Remind me, someone, how was he able to justify advertising his business here? Having had another look at the website, it really is very short on detail of how it was all supposed to work, though lots of pretty pictures. Anyway, I'm very sorry it seems to be going so pearshaped, and hope it all gets sorted satisfactorily, and soon.

Presumably with his 'not for financial profit', same as forum users concerts in the UK. As far as I know it's only things for profit that can't be advertised, although mods have to use common sense with some things (music retail sites, Kodaly courses etc.) Teachers for example can't actively advertise their practices on here as it's for their own profit, but concert organisers can promote forum concerts as they are for the benefit of forum users, not to make profit (well they sometimes do but it goes to a charity they choose, not their own pockets!).

But if you're running a business and organise something like that, how is there not going to be profit involved?

That was the point I made at the time, and I took issue with him comparing his concert with forum user concerts. There is absolutely no comparison between the two, and as an organiser of forum user concerts, at the time I told him that his comparison could be seen as libellous. Particularly under the present circumstances regarding ajm3112, and since neil-clarinet has also given the impression that they are similar - no they are not!

In that case you issue is with ajm3212, not me. If he has mislead anyone that his concert was not for profit that is his mistake. I'm afraid I have not been following the details, but please don't make sarky comments like that.

I'm stepping out this one. Good luck resolving things.

Neil if you *had* followed the details, you'd have realised that I don't have a current issue with ajm3212 - I was simply correcting the impression which you had perpetrated that there was some similarity between ajm's concert and forum user concerts. What I said wasn't intended to be sarcastic, and even reading it again, I can't see that it sounds it, but like I said, it certainly wasn't intended to.


Sorry petrat and jod, back on topic....

Still no word from Andrew. I am sorry if he has had bad publicity over this. It won't bode well for any future courses with which he might be involved.

Oh my I am terribly sorry to read of your troubles, it seems very serious...as I have not been able to keep track of what this is all about, in as much the course you have subscibed to and it seems paid for I am slightly in the dark, not that it is any of my business...I wish you luck resolving this issue...the legal standpoint as best I can recall is as follows, if you go to the Citizens Advice Bereau they can advise and its free advice, they will guide you as to how best get your problem resolved and what chances you may or may not have...it will go something like this

Firstly, you must write to this person explain your dissatisfaction and request your money back within 28 days...

If they fail to respond, you can instruct the county court to persue this matter on your behalf, the charges vary depending on how much money you are owed, should you win your case that fee will be added to the monies outstanding along with court fees etc. You will have a lengthy form to fill in but keep copies of everything and send all correspondence via garaunteed mail so it is (a) traceable and (b) signed for, this will help you in the county court...

I fear the biggest problem will be actually getting the money back...even if you win it can take a long time to get your funds restored to you...you could ask the court to appoint a baliff who can collect on your behalf or you could appoint a debt collector to act on your behalf...they will charge a fee but claim it from the debtor...

Its a rotten thing to have happen to you and I do sympathise, I had a person owe me many thousands and it took a very long time to persue them but I did and I won, sadly I am still waiting on the money as they moved and the courts have failed to trace them...they simply vanished...

Personally I wouldn't use the courts again, it was a very slow process and didn't get me anywhere finacially...I would simply reccomend that you send in some largish hairy ar$£d Blokes to kick the $£^p out of him...you may get your money back faster than you expect if they just pay him a visit...nothing illegal about paying him a personal call...door steppers are very effective....its your call really...

I am sorry of that sounds extreme but I will never get caught again being owed money, its a miserable situation for you and I wish you luck...

regards

Andrew

What a suggestion!
Time to send Liddy and Addy round with their duck-ended umbrellas maybe.

Please sort it out Andrew.

I'll send me boys rahnd for you's!

Just to clarify...I am not THE ANDREW just an Andrew,

Thanks for that. In any future posts about the gentleman I shall call him Ajm3212 to avoid confusion.

You will always be THE Andrew for some, surely?

Aww shucks.....

Ta ever so...

Panic almost over Folks. I have heard from ajm3212 and he is going to sort things out. Thank you everyone.

GOOD! Great news. Hope it's all sorted out asap.

Petra, my hubby and I have managed to track down lots of interesting facts en route. Of course its not over until we get the money in out accounts, so we're still trying to establish an address with which to correspond via snail mail. Email is fine, but for some things, you still need to use the old fashioned method.

I hope now that there will be a rapid conclusion to this saga too.

Quite right, perhaps next time you will book on a SAGA holiday instead

Oh, come, Mr B, would you really condemn jod to no holidays until she's old enough for a SAGA one?

At least he is in contact now, so it should be sorted out pretty quickly

What, next year?

Oooh!
*flinch*
So you'll also qualify for them soon, then....

and I'm long past the age mark, in that case....

Ajm3212 has made contact by PM. Unfortunately I cannot reply via the same method, so I will email him instead.

SAGA holidays next year... the cheek! I might sometimes feel old enough, but in reality I've another 12 years to go!

I'm glad this seems to be working out for you both.

There is still no money forthcoming from the good gentleman. I am very fed up with this situation now.
Whoever thought it funny to add Andrew's name to their voting list of the posters whom they found most humorous was misguided. This situation is not amusing in any way and at least two of us are left out of pocket.

Oh dear, this is not good news. I'm afraid alarm bells started ringing when I read that the hotel was on the market prior to your deposits being paid, and that he had moved to England without informing you. Then YOU had to track HIM down.
I hope this reaches a satisfactory conclusion soon, but I would be asking myself if it was worth persuing through the courts if he has no money - you could end up being more out of pocket. Maybe a personal visit (the two of you who are out of pocket, with husbands) might produce some results.

Oh dear.

I'm afraid I smelt Large Rats right from the beginning...I'm so sorry the two of you have had your fingers burned so badly here .

I'm sure you'll continue to have the support and advice from all genuine forum members.

Feeling very on your behalf.

I expect that there are more than two of us. Jo and I are probably just two from here. He advertised in several other places too.