So... for the first time ever I decided to gather my very limited confidence, and put myself out there, and managed to get a solo for my music group's next concert. I'm singing "I could have danced all night" which will be easy as I already know it from grade five (a happy coincidence.)
Unfortunately it's the same week that my English class is taken off time table to go to a smelly little hovel in the middle of nowhere to work in peace on our extended essays.

The trip to the smelly little hovel (hereafter known as SLH) has already been postponed once to acommadate students (including me) going on a history trip to Berlin. My teacher said that any more school trips at the same time, and he was sorry but we'll have to miss it BUT any student simply choosing not to go and the entire class gets the trip cancelled. Most people love trips the the SLH.

I've made it well-known that I detest SLH... I know I'd get more work done simply not going - and I'll throw myself on the mercy of my teacher... but in the past he has told me that I'm ridiculous for being so dedicated to a "hobby" (the thing that keeps me sane!) He also shouted at me for missing the celebration evening for picking up GCSE certificates as I was practising my grade 5 songs with my accompanist for the exam the next day. I don't think he'll let me off, and I don't want the whole class to hate me - but I'm really looking forward to this solo and I think it'll help my confidence a lot...

Seriously no one ever gets any work done on these trips anyway... what can I do?

I hope someone has some advice I'm lost and very worried.

(Ps for background knowledge, I can do well without this trip, not boasting but I got the highest mark in my year for English in the last set of exams, and full marks in 2/3 modules...)

Beg? Seriously, it sounds a little extreme to cancel the trip just because one person couldn't make it, especially if they feel that they would get more done at home. Would he do the same if someone was ill and couldn't make it? Its not like he can't cope with 1 or 2 missing, surely?

In the end though, if you made the commitment to the performance first then that should come first.

I know... It's just - he's so arrogant, he overreacts to everything and he doesn't understand how someone can excel at something unless they devote all their time to it. And my English class will hate me even more... If it comes down to what I should do, I should do the performance, if it comes down to what I want to do, I want to do the performance... but I don't know if I can do what I want this time...

Personally, I think he needs to realise that music is important to you and that English isn't the most important thing all the time. Is there someone else higher up that you could explain the situation to who would be more understanding?

Perhaps you could be very reasonable, and explain to him that you will catch up with what you are missing in your own time, as you have a prior commitment to do this solo? And, as you are being taken off timetable, and this seems to happen reasonably often, surely its just a bit too much to effectivly blackmail you into going at the expense of your other subjects, espcially as you are clearly no threat to his class?

If the teacher is being problematic, bypass the teacher - get you parents to see a member of senior staff or your head of year. He is being rather petty, effectively decreeing that if you don't go on the trip, the rest of your class will bully you for getting it cancelled - getting them to do his dirty work, in effect. It's not on, and a word from your parents to someone to whom he is subordinate will sort it out.

Otherwise, is the trip to SLH free? If not, say you cannot afford it. Probably can't touch you for that....

He's the head of department, it's ridiculous because people worship him, he has a reputation that's practically God-like, but he's petty, he's arrogant, he has no sense of humour, and the reason he gets good marks is because he tells people what to write... He thinks the socratic method of teaching is saying "Don't you think you should write this here?"

He's not that great a teacher at all and I can't think of anyone who would defy him. I'll have to beg on my knees to get anywhere... He'll try to humiliate me - I will let myself be humiliated sure, but it's just not fair.

I know I'm ranting, sorry.

My mum works at my school, in his department under him... he's her boss... he knows we're not poor.

Of course I'd do the work! I wouldn't skip the trip and just slack off!

Principal?? If you really have issues with your teacher, then it needs sorting. I've had some fun going against the system in school, and I've found it pays to go straight to the top

If the trip was free they might just have a point but they cannot force you to buy something that you plainly do not want!!!

How far away are the two things? Something similar happened to me when I was at school with a residential French course which I didn't want to go on but had been selected for as one of the best pupils in the county and a concert that I desperately wanted to play in. I won't go into details but the course was being held about a 90 minute drive from where we lived and after much negotiation my mother was allowed to come and pick me up at the end of one afternoon in time to play in the concert and bring me back the following morning.

I know what you mean, but my headmaster is worse than ineffectual. He's that special form of ineffectual where you ignore all your students, and ignore any problems which need fixing, and instead spend the school budget on unnecessary things which he can put in a newsletter to sound expensive. I'm not meaning to shoot down all your suggestions - they are very useful, it's just my school is not good at some things.



SLH is about 2 and a half hours away... If worst comes to worst that's a really good idea, however the trip to SLH is a three day trip, so Mr C may say I'd be missing too much time of it - I wouldn't put it past him to do it to spite me.

I think it's really your parents who need to be in agreement with you here. If they say you are not going then it's not your fault. They will have to give permission won't they?

I personally would go to the music teacher/person organising the concert and explain to him the situation. And then hopefully he will go and tell your English teacher that it is essential that you are at theconcert, and there is no way that you can go to SLH (or that's what my music teacher would do ). Or if that fails, get your parents to write a letter to the English teacher. Surely you can't be forced to go to this place?! It sounds horrible!!

You never know. My French teacher and I loathed each other (a couple of years later she refused to write me a reference when I applied to university to study French) but with pressure from the music teacher she eventually gave in.

I would let your parents fight your battle with him over this one. You go and enjoy singing!

How appalling! So petty! Didn't the school force her to write a flattering reference? Luckily it seems to have worked out for you.
I'm not in a concert with the school, it's an outside music group, but I could ask my dad to get involved. I'm worried about creating an uncomfortable position for my mum - my English teacher is her boss - but I won't miss this concert if there's any way possible not to.

My English teacher is also my form tutor, and as such has a vested interest in getting me into a good uni. I will tell him that performing will improve my confidence which will help if I manage to take grade seven at easter next year - if I pass that's uni points, so I'll try that too. I don't want to cause a fuss, so I'll be polite first, but if necessary I'll do everything.

Hi lucky045! As a mum I would just like to play devil's advocate here and give a few reasons why the English trip might be a good idea.

I think from looking at your profile that you are in year 13? You should find that the AS students who were worst at English have now dropped out and that the core who are left for A2 include some other high fliers as well as yourself. If the trip is run well, what you should find is that there will be some great group discussion which will really help with your essay. Remember that your teacher knows quite well that you got the highest mark in English and is hoping that your contribution to the discussion will be valuable to others too.

I work in a school science department (as a lab technician) and I know that the Biology field trip (5 days away) is a highlight of the A-level course to many of the students. They get to know each other and their teachers really well, and the benefits go on throughout year 13.

Do you really want to miss out on a three day trip where you can bond with your English group and get to know your teachers better, just to sing one song which you've already done for grade 5? There will be other opportunities to sing - explain to your music group that you have to do a school trip, and book yourself a slot in their next concert instead.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do here, just aiming to get you to look at things afresh from a different angle. Hope it helps!

P.S. What are you hoping to study at uni?

I see your point... For example I wouldn't skip my history week long trip for a concert - and I am hoping to study English at university. The thing is that everyone is doing two different books for their essay, and making up their own question. For example mine is: "Sympathy for the devil. A comparative essay exploring an author's ability to make the reader question their own humanity in 'Lolita' and 'Paradise Lost.'"

Someone else's might be about the use of parody in "Northanger Abbey" or the importance of beauty in "A Picture of Dorian Grey." We have already done lots of seminars, discussing the merit of different books, and possible questions you can get out of it... this trip is mostly the heads down, working non-stop with no distractions type... I can do that at home.
The trip is only my English group as well, not the entire year group.

I do see your point though, and you make a compelling argument. I'll have to think about it carefully.

As you want to read English, it is quite simple you need to go on the English trip. If I was your mother, that would be my opinion, but of course if I was your music teacher I'd be sorry that you had to miss the concert.

Whatever the nature of the place where you're staying, having an opportunity to bounce ideas off your teacher and your peer group is a really good way of learning. We all think differently and if and when you get to University, you will need to be prepared to get stuck in and make the most of every opportunity that comes your way.

Of course if you wanted to read music, I would have said the exact opposite, but you have said you do not, and you have said that your German trip is worth more than this concert too. However you have now declared your hand and said that English is your game. This will be a useful exercise for you so treat it with the same deree of seriouness as you are affording to your German trip.

This might sound harsh, and I fully understand the disappointment, but where do your priorities really lie?

Hi Lucy ,

Well done for biting the bullet and (provisionally) deciding to perform a solo - it'll probably do wonders to boost your confidence. It's a rather awkward situation to be in though, I agree. On a lesser scale I had to choose between going to a weekend-long (non-residential) Film Studies course (where we would have studied script writing, directing etc, which would have been useful as part of my English folio) or leading an orchestra in a winter music festival, which meant going half-way down the country for the same weekend. I chose to go to the festival mainly because I need all the musical experience I can get (Hoping to apply for both Music and English at uni), and I apparently have sufficient evidence for my English folio already. I think your situation might be a bit different though...

If you really can't see any benefits of going away with your English class, surely it's upto you to decide how to study? By our stage of education, I don't really believe that there is much that should be enforced by way of learning styles, methods of study, and so I firmly believe that your teacher should understand that. (Unless he's one of those uncompromising, slightly evil people who are secretly still harbouring a cane under the desk .)

But, as BerkshireMum said, is it really worth passing on this opportunity, just to sing a piece you've already performed (to a high level)? Whilst I believe performing solo is absolutely fabulous and most probably a confidence booster, will there not be other opportunities to perform? That way you could have the best of both worlds, without really disappointing anyone.

Just a thought, requires some discipline, but could you do the work now? Then you wouldn't have to go on the trip to write the essay because you've already done the essay. It's up to you, whether you think you'd gain anything from the trip, if you did I'd suggest that you go on it; if you don't think it would be of any benefit then it's not necessarily a good use of your time.

Is there any way you could combine the two? The teacher might be happy for the class to arrange a talent show/concert one night. If you can get other people involved it might be worth a go.

Ultimately its up to you. If you really want out of it you can probably just avoid mentioning it to the teacher until its too late for him to cancel. Equally a compromise might be possible particularly if you could get your mum to talk to him about it.

I do see your point about all doing different things but you'd be surprised how much you can pick up, even while doing the whole 'heads down' thing. Its also a great chance to get to know your teacher and the rest of the class despite working most of the time.

Interesting topic for your essay, have you ever read Pale Fire?

The thing is I don't see it as about my priorities. I cannot see any value in this trip at all, my brother, and many others in his year have told me they learnt nothing, and used it as an extra holiday, and I discuss things with others in my class all the time. I have my ideas for my essay and I know what I'm going to write. It's easy to say I can learn from other people in my class, but the only person unafraid to discuss her opinions and show her intelligence left this year. Most other people in my class considers stupidity and ignorance something to be proud of. They are clever people, but they are terrified to show it, and so I learn very little from them - they are afraid to share their views in case they are called boffs.

I can get full marks in that essay without this trip.

Now I sound obnoxious, arrogant and pathetic... sorry, but I've never had less than full marks in coursework before and I can talk to other English teachers in school.



There will be other opportunities I suppose, it looks like I can't get out of it now.



Yes today I suggested that, I had a plan, and set myself a deadline for the finished essay before the trip. (Will explain further down the reply what happened.)




Yes I have! I wanted to study it for my essay but my teacher said that I couldn't use it as he thought a particular other student might enjoy it, and he didn't want the essays to be similar.


Anyway, today I threw myself on his mercy. I was as mature as possible, and I explained that I could have the essay finished before the trip. I suggested that if he didn't want me to do that I could go on the same trip with a different English group. He agreed, possibly because he couldn't find any excuses to make me. Then I was called back at lunch time and he told me he'd changed his mind. He said I wasn't integrated with the group, and that I needed to create a bond with the other members of the English group.

I happen to be in a group in which there are only two people who would consider me a friend - I'm not an outcast in the wider scheme of things though - I have lots of friends, who are just not in my English group.
Anyway I pointed out the several overtures of friendship I had made, and he ignored me. I told him that I was happily working in groups with anyone he chose to put me with, and he ignored me.

He told me I needed to learn to make friends, and that perhaps our modern novel results as a class would have been better if I had been friends with some people in the class (I got full marks).

In conclusion he told me that I was anti-social and needed to come on the trip to learn to interact with people. I swear I'm not anti-social. I get on with almost everyone, and there are only two people in the English group who don't like me - but my teacher only notices them.

I said nothing and walked out of the room so I wouldn't cry in front of him.

My mum wants me to move groups but it doesn't work with my timetable.

That is... not on ! Even if you don't gel with the rest of the group, 1 person sat on thier own wouldn't cause any problems unless they were disruptive, and that doesn't appear to be the case anyway. I would definitely say change groups but that doesn't look like an option...In any case it is not for the teacher to judge your social life or lack of it, unless it is having an adverse impact on the rest of the class, which I very much doubt... Don't stand for it!

Your teacher does sound awful Lucky045.

When I did A level French there were only three of us and for some reason we always had lessons in a big classroom. I was very shy and quietly spoken and my ghastly French teacher (who I mentioned in the earlier post) used to make me sit right at the back as far away from her and the other two as possible, then she wrote on my report that I was loath to join in class discussions and unwilling to share my ideas orally. When I tried to object that I didn't feel part of the class sitting so far away from everyone else she said it was my own fault because she had been obliged to make me sit there to force me to speak more loudly.

To get back to your own problem, while it would be ideal to change groups, you are not going to be stuck with this man forever - at the end of the year you will never have to see him again. As long as you are getting good marks that is all that matters.

Thanks... The sad thing is, he actually probably quite likes me, when I'm in form he's lovely to me... but it's just when I'm in the class and his particular two favourites are being rude to me, he just acts as though he hates me... and today he acted like that as well when I was talking to him alone. Tomorrow he'll be all smiles.

He makes me feel like a leper though, when in reality I am a fairly social person.



I suppose teachers like this will be around til the end of time. I got the whole unwilling to join in class discussion thing too, which is... odd to say the least, as I'm the only person in the class who says anything other than "why do we have to study them then? That was ages ago... we live now!"

Thanks though, I'll just be quiet and try to keep my head down and my marks up.

Poor lucky, what a difficult day for you . I've quoted just a few bits of one of your posts here.


How about looking at this from your teacher's viewpoint, just so that you can understand where he's coming from? Teachers try to encourage ALL their students to work hard at their A-levels, and what helps with this is to have a few students who really know what they're doing and will pull up the whole class. The poor man has apparently lost one of these students from his group, and now the other (you) is being difficult about his trip (remember, we are looking at this through his eyes!).

The attitude of the students getting top marks is often crucial in a class. Do the others in your class really think ignorance is something to be proud of, or is it more that they realise how clever you are and therefore don't like to say things in front of you? Your teacher obviously thinks that if the others can perceive you as a friend rather than just someone cleverer than them, they would be better able to share their thoughts, you might be more willing to share yours in a helpful way, and then the whole class might benefit.

I am not saying that your teacher is right in this case, but I can see why he spoke to you as he did. Yes, you can probably get full marks on the essay with or without the trip, but I think he feels that if you were willing to help the rest of the group by being more a part of it, some of the others would get better marks too. At the moment you are coming across as not caring too much about the rest of your class, whereas when classmates are also friends, you really want them to do their best and the whole atmosphere changes.

I am quite sure that your teacher likes you, but he is very frustrated by the class chemistry, and seems to feel that you could be doing a lot more to help here. It's a tall order for you, as you clearly don't get on brilliantly with some of the other students, and in one sense you don't owe them anything. However, in a wider sense I think we are all inextricably involved with one another, and it's not possible to act in isolation - most of what we do affects other people.

So it's over to you now. I don't know what the others in your group are like - they may be ghastly and you may feel you really can't be bothered with them - or if you got to know them better you might find you would like to help them improve at English. Your teacher has tried appealing to you, and if you still don't want to help there isn't a lot he can do. But I guess he is very much hoping that your better nature will carry the day!

Hearing that you can be anti-social is a horrible criticism to take. However like Berkshire mum I can see it from your English Tutor's perspective.

The essay is not the only reason for the trip, and even if you don't like the prospect now, there is potential to learn a lot from your peers.

I stay by what I said yesterday. I know you love your music and missing out on this concert means a lot to you, but I also see an English Teacher who really does care and want the best for you. Right at the moment you cant see that and you are hurt.

Ignore what your brother said - its your trip not his and who says its going to be the same?

Viewing it from your teacher's perspective, he's seing a strong willed student who is challenging his decision on the matter. He's almost certainly not happy about your behaviour in the same way as you are not happy with his.

Part of the reason for going to school is to interact with your peer group. You may not like them, but thats something you have to deal with in life on a day to day basis as an adult anyway. Try to put yourself in your English teachers perspective.

It sounds like you both said things that were hurtful. However for the sake of everyone in your English group go on the trip. You will have other opportunities to perform.

Good Luck
Jo

Yes I see your point... I know I should want to help people, but it's difficult... I'm no teacher obviously, but I try to help people during class... You might be right about my teacher disliking the class chemistry, but his attitude seemed to be that the class chemistry was all perfect and I was the weak link - he said that I was "the only one" who didn't integrate. I mean considering there are about three out of twenty of us who contribute, and the other two are usually making some smart comment on how we don't need to learn anything, I don't understand how this is the case.

I really hope people aren't intimidated by me - it's not something I ever considered before... I can't really see why they would be... I'm just me, I sometimes don't think things through and I get answers wrong and I mess things up... Sometimes I miss really obvious things just like everyone else...

My better nature? I feel guilty now... and I wouldn't say the other students are ghastly... there are one or two directly out of Mean Girls though, and they don't like me - other people sort of fear them, and so from what my English teacher can see they have all the friends, and I'm the only one who doesn't get on with them (not true.) Anyway it'll be difficult to help them, but I can try with the nicer people. Since it looks like I'm going now I suppose I will help as best I can - though really I'm just a student, I don't see what I can do... I'm going to avoid my teacher for a bit though, he really hurt my feelings.




Perhaps - it's just that I can't think of anyone outside my English group (but still in my peer group) who would treat me the way some of the people in my English group do. It's not as though I dislike these people for no reason. As an adult I won't put up with abuse and I won't do it now - if two girls repeatedly call me a loser I'm not going to want to spend time with them. In adult life if people insulted me like that I would avoid them. I can be very immature sometimes, but I wouldn't say this was one of those times - I mean at least I suggested several alternatives - including doing the same trip but with different people. Anyway the people weren't the reason I didn't want to go - my solo was. The people were the reason I felt I didn't need to go - everyone says I can learn from people... so maybe I will, what do I know? Still, I feel that if they refuse to offer opinions or contribute to discussion, as usual, then it will be difficult to learn from them.

I have to go on the trip - my mum won't intervene on my behalf as she said if I wanted to perform it was my responsibility to make it happen. My teacher has said I have to go, so go I shall and I will do my best to help any way I can.
Nonetheless I think it's rather irresponsible of a teacher to make judgements about me and my social life based on one class - and irresponsible for him to imply that I have a duty to ensure good marks in other members of my class - of course I want to help but if his class did badly it's not my fault, even if I am the only one who did well.

It's just your last sentence, that we both said hurtful things? Well no... I'm a student I can't really argue with my teacher and generally I don't say hurtful things anyway. At no point did I say anything personal to the teacher, I merely outlined what I wanted and the sacrifices I was willing to make to ensure I got it - he was the only one making personal comments.

I'll go, I'll make the best of it but I am really unhappy that I have to miss my first ever solo, and considering this will mark me as unreliable I will probably not get another one with this group. I still see no benefit to the trip for me and I know that's selfish, but I'm not really making this sacrifice willingly. I think my English teacher was either very petty in making me go just so I'd suffer, or rather irresponsible, sacrificing the needs of one pupil in an attempt to garner help for the others.

Lucy

Thats a very mature decision. Don't let the losers who are calling you one get to you - you're better than that.

I didn't thinks you'd said anything personal.

Make the most out of it won't you.

Jo

That depends very much on the situation. I was more than once let off particular classes and trips during my A Level English Lit as my teacher considered I didn't need to go to some of them. I got an A.

I can particularly remember one activity that clashed with a class late on in upper 6th which she designated, "How to pass your A Level, do not miss it". When I asked if there was any way I could do the other activity (I forget what it was, but certainly it had nothing to do with what we were studying even if it was remotely Eng Lit related) she said, "Oh of course, YOU don't need to attend that class".

This was the teacher who strongly recommended that I read English at uni.

It does sound like Lucy is being more mature than the teacher... It makes me cross when any teacher effectively guilt-trips someone into doing something like that, and he has laid an awful lot of responsibility (the class's marks for an essay, the integration of the group) on he shoulders. He may have many good reasons for wanting her to do the trip, but the way he has gone about making it happen stink.

Lucky, you are such a nice person! I'm sure the rest of your music group will understand - they have all been to school, and know that parents want you to put school things first. Just explain and tell them how upset you are to have to let them down.

I do hope the trip won't be as useless as you fear. If nothing else, it may show your teacher that you are not the one with the friendship problems. I'm sorry these girls are being so mean to you, but I suspect they may be jealous of your achievements. I'm still hoping that you may get to know some of the others better and that it will help your studies all through year 13.

I don't suppose your teacher realises how upset you were, as you just walked out on him. Hope he redeems himself before long by being particularly nice to you! Do let us know how the trip goes - is it soon?

Yes... while other people here have given me good reasons to go on the trip my teacher really didn't... I think if he'd just explained it like Berkshire Mum or Jod, instead of calling me antisocial and so on I'd have been much happier about the decision - though still very disappointed.




Well thanks... I think I'm really rather normal when it comes to kindness/pettiness but it's nice to know I come across as kind to people. The jealousy factor would be a nice thought - really though, both the nasty girls have about six older sisters... I imagine they've grown up with that sort of mean behaviour which is almost exclusive to girls - it's understandable that they'd be horrible to others (still mean though)!

My teacher spoke to my mum today (hazard of having a parent at the school). He told her he thought I was unhappy and implied I was having friendship issues... again...
My mum told him that I have lots of friends and am very social - I just happen to be in a class without them... I don't know if he believed her, but I'm grateful that she tried.

Thanks Lucy! You're very kind.

Its so easy to come accross "preachy" when you genuinely have another forums users best interest at heart. For goodness sake I've made enough mistakes myself!

I'm glad you welcomed berkshire mum and my input. I know my side was well intended...

All the best

Jo

Yes, it was not likely to endear him or to make you take it better!


Good on your mum. Hasn't occurred to him your main reason presently for being unhappy in his class is that he's been an idiot *wry grin* but at least she has set the record straight or tried to.

How did it go then?

Hope all went well x

Thanks MaddieLou nothing's happened yet, except the situation's been axacerbated even more by my french teacher complaining about the time off school... She doesn't blame me though so all is well...

I shall be going to SLH in October... I have it written down somewhere... I know I know I was worried a bit in advance.