i was looking on the Radio 3 website the other day when i saw a topic on the message board. Sadly, i'm not sure what the topic was about but one person wrote...'the appalling and moronic classic fm..."relax"...radio 3 is the best station in britain'. So it got me wondering, which is the better radio station? I heard Julian Lloyd Webber on one BBC radio station saying that Classic FM were doing a brilliant job with promoting classical music and Radio 3 were just trying to copy Classic FM! Charles Hazlewood (BBC Music presenter/conductor) said in an interview,"Classic FM has opened it up by peddling the notion of music as aural wall paper, which is fine, but for me that doesn't go far enough," I listen to Classic FM quite a lot but i watched/listened to quite a lot of the stuff Charles Hazlewood did for Radio 3/BBC and most of the Proms coverage is presented by Radio 3 presenters. (one of the presenters for the Early Music show, Andrew Manze, was soloist/conductor at one of the Proms. He's amazing!! Did anyone watch that prom he was in? )
feel free to add any comments you want
ping-lee

it doesn't reeli matter does it... i keep on switching channels...from time to time....

CLASSIC FM ROCKS THE WORLDDDD!

See RAJAR.

Radio 3 has a 1.1% share of listening and Classic FM has a 4.5% share of listening.

This I think answers the question.

chatueauferret,

I'm not sure that your statistic says anything more than what percentage listens to what - but what population was sampled you omit to say. I've seen some very dodgy statistics quoted on these fora (forums?) of late.

Here's another couple of statistics for you to think about:
i) Elvis Presley is the the greatest musician of all time (based on record sales and listening public).

ii) People who wear gold watches die younger than those who don't.

So you see, it's too easy to use stats as a drunk does a lamppost - to hold him up, rather than for illumination.

But yes, Classic FM is bound to be more popular in that it only broadcasts popular diatonic classics. You won't hear new works of any sort during your waking hours. So if pops are your lot, yup, stay with classic FM. If you've more of a sense of adventure, listen to both.

ive never really listened to radio 3. i listen to Classic FM, but i might try radio 3 when i get home!

radio 3!! no adverts!!

I've just got a digital radio so now I can listen to Jazz FM. It's mainly jazz funk and various sorts of schmaltz but at about 6.00pm till about 8.00pm they have a programme called "Dinner Jazz" where they play some great stuff. I love listening to it when I'm cooking dinner - much recommended.

The Jazz FM v Radio 3 argument; you could say Radio 3 is challenging and Classic FM is the easy ride for people who want their "classix" accessible and in soundbite sized portions.

Or you could say Radio 3 is elitist and inaccessible whereas Classic FM is bringing classical music to an audience who have never discovered it before. They can then start going to concerts and buying CD's etc etc...

Which is true?

I can't decide.

Violinia

oh, i listen to jazz fm sometimes. they seem to be playing a lot more soul and funk stuff than they used to.

I made it perfectly clear that the source of my statistics was RAJAR and, Rhapsodin, if you take the trouble to look at the website link I supplied, you could find out all you wanted to know about where they come from and how they are derived. The listening figures are statistics but they're statistics based on hard evidence which is accepted as robust by the broadcasting industry and used as agreed formal metrics between stakeholders. They are therefore as accurate an indicator of listeners' behaviour and preference as you are likely to find.

Correlation does not imply cause and effect but it is nevertheless a statistical relationship between two things. People who wear gold watches may die earlier than those who don't because many of them are the same people who drink a lot and eat rich food, i.e. spend a lot of money indulging themselves. This does not mean that gold watches cause terminal disease, but that isn't the statement under examination. The statement under examination is that there is correlation. For every statistically significant result, there is an explanation, and the two statements in the original post are explanations for the difference in listening figures found by RAJAR.

Elvis Presley probably is the greatest musician of all time, and getting an opinion poll to confirm this statement in the majority of listeners would probably be like falling off a log. After all, we find a man guilty or not by asking members of the public, so why is it invalid to answer a question of this kind by going to the same source? It's because his kind of music is much more popular than ours, as again the listening figures suggest. In financial terms neither Mozart, Beethoven nor J S Bach come anywhere near. They however are the most *influential* musicians of all time, which is not quite the same thing. I wouldn't listen to Elvis, but then 4.5% is still a small minority. For the other 95.5% - and probably some of the 4.5% as well - Elvis is The King.

I think that Violinia's two statements about why there is a larger listening audience with Classic FM are more or less the same. The audience is widened by making the material less challenging and therefore more accessible. It is the easy ride which is why it can entice people who have never discovered it before. I think that Radio 3 is too intellectual and does nothing to further awareness and musical education among people who have been deprived of it or not accessed it through more traditional channels - and that there are very many of the latter.

Looked at another way, the stats say that 5.6% of radio listening in the UK is with classical music stations. What was it before Classic FM was launched? RAJAR doesn't go back that far.

If you say so, chateauf...

I prefer Radio 3 but the really good programmes aren't on at very convinient times. I can't stand the adverts on Classic FM but I suppose its good to have on in the background when you aren't really listening. I find that they some times get hooked on a particular composer and then play them to death so everyone goes and buys the CD's but this can become very boring. They are much more into playing 'popular' classical artists than quality recordings.
David

The thing that attracts me to Classic FM is the listeners Requests, where the listeners choose the music.

I like the Analysis (of a composer's works) that Radio 3 sometimes do.

Cheers,
Craig

Radio 3 mostly, especially in the summer for the Proms and I also enjoy Private Passions. But I also like to listen to the evening concert at 9:00 (if I am not practising the piano!) on Classic FM because you get more than one movement!! What's the point of hearing the second movement of the Brahms violin concerto over and over again? They do flog some favourites to death but there are some interesting programmes like Composer's Notes and David Mellor plays some unfamiliar pieces by familiar composers on his programme If you like this, you'll like that

I channel hop a lot and I use the Classic FM website to give me a preview of what will be played.

it doesn't really matter...i have a flip over the two channels before i decide which i'm going to listen.... they both have good programmes...

I regularly visit the Radio 3 website and message board, and this is a subject often discussed. The people there are very knowledgable about music, despite many of them not being musicians themselves. The main criticisms of Classic FM is that it usually only plays single movements instead of entire works. How are you meant to gain a picture of a whole symphony if you only hear one movement? Symphonies were written to be heard in their entirety, not in the 'bleeding chunks' which form the main part of the Classic FM schedules. The same goes for arias taken from operas, slow movements of concertos etc.
The truth is that for such a diverse range of music in the classical repertoire, Classic FM plays only a small amount in terms of styles and composers. It plays safe with its listeners, which is why it manages to pull in the ratings. I suspect many have it on in the car or at home as background noise instead of actively listening. Many see music as functional, eg to help them 'relax'. This isn't helped by the 'most soothing classic in the world' compilations etc which arent doing anything to help the image of classical music. How often do you hear 20th century music on Classic FM, such as Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Scriabin, Britten? Then there are the adverts, and not usually very pleasant ones in my experience.
This picture of the average CFM listener probably doesn't apply to most people here, as musicians. Despite its faults, it may act as a good starting point for people wanting to discover classical music, in small 'digestible' chunks to begin with. But I would urge them not to stop there - for there is so much more to hear which CFM does not provide. When you learn to read, you don't stop once you read a few shorter children's books - you move on to bigger and better things.
The ratings situation isn't helped by the fact that Radio 3 has to incorporate jazz and world music into its schedules, as well as some drama and other spoken word programmes. Therefore if you are only looking for classical music it may not always be available. But it also has some wonderful programmes such as Discovering Music, and broadcasts all of the BBC Proms. Someone mentioned the programmes being on at inconvenient times. This is one of the issues raised by the Friends of Radio 3 (www.for3.org) who wish to see a greater amount of time in the schedules being devoted to classical music, at more convenient times. As far classic FM is concerned, it is seen as a 'watered-down' version, as so many things sadly are these days.

I prefer Radio 3 but it doesn't suprise me that the stats show that more people listen to Classic FM. However, the two stations are very different. Classic FM is a commercial radio station whereas Radio 3 is not. Radio 3 is able to play new composers and is not under commercial pressure to play the more "popular" classics. I think we are very lucky to have a station like Radio 3.

QUOTE

Or you could say Radio 3 is elitist and inaccessible whereas Classic FM is bringing classical music to an audience who have never discovered it before. They can then start going to concerts and buying CD's etc etc...

I think this is a good point made by Violinia here, Radio 3 does sometimes come across as very elitist. The trouble is though whenever Radio 3 tries to become more accessible there always seems to be complaints from there core listeners. It almost seems as if these people seem to think they belong to some exclusive club and don't want the rest of us riff raff joining. I don't know if any of you used to listen to Dead Ringers on Radio 4 but they always used to do some very funny stuff about the elitism of Radio 3.

Having said all that though I prefer Radio 3 because they broadcast complete concerts several times during the day and have some very interesting programs such as CD review and Composer of the Week.

QUOTE (Lucia @ Sep 6 2004, 09:57 AM)

I don't know if any of you used to listen to Dead Ringers on Radio 4 but they always used to do some very funny stuff about the elitism of Radio 3.

yeah!! I think dead ringers is very funny especially those radio 3 sketches!! I was listening to radio 3 and i agree, it's perhaps not as accessable as classic fm?

QUOTE (Lucia @ Sep 6 2004, 09:57 AM)

QUOTE Or you could say Radio 3 is elitist and inaccessible whereas Classic FM is bringing classical music to an audience who have never discovered it before. They can then start going to concerts and buying CD's etc etc... It almost seems as if these people seem to think they belong to some exclusive club and don't want the rest of us riff raff joining. I don't know if any of you used to listen to Dead Ringers on Radio 4 but they always used to do some very funny stuff about the elitism of Radio 3. Having said all that though I prefer Radio 3 because they broadcast complete concerts several times during the day and have some very interesting programs such as CD review and Composer of the Week.

I understand where you're coming from but doubt it's true about the clubbiness. You must remember that Radio 3 has a very long history - it used to be the Third Programme. It has always catered to a huge range of audience, the popular and light classical enthusiast as much as the hardcore avant gardist. It broadcast festivals and concerts of new composers and the avant garde such as Classic FM would not dare!

Many composers have advanced because of Radio 3. But it has been elitist in respect of what it would program from new composers. Unless you were a serialist you got nothing past the program planners in the sixties etc etc. But where else would you have heard Fernyhough; Nyman; David Bedford....? Classic FM? Hahahahaha!

I'd say that there is more that lots of listeners would not like about R3 simply because it caters to this far wider range. Thankfully it is not tied to making a profit which, of course, classic FM is.
R

Strangely enough we were talking about this in music yesterday! As i'm taking my GCSE'S this year my teacher said we should listen to Classic FM for the listening paper rather than Radio 3 cos Classic play shorter extracts of music whereas Radio 3 would play the whole thing!
jess

How to you listen to BBC Radio 3 and Classic FM?

VHF-FM? Satellite? Freeview? DAB Digital Radio? Internet webcasts?

How to you listen to BBC Radio 3 and Classic FM?

VHF-FM? Satellite? Freeview? DAB Digital Radio? Internet webcasts?

QUOTE (Yogesh @ Sep 14 2004, 01:12 PM)

How to you listen to BBC Radio 3 and Classic FM?

Hi Yogesh

Here is the website for Radio 3, you can listen online you just need to download some software, which I believe is free.

QUOTE (Lucia @ Sep 15 2004, 03:06 PM)

Hi Yogesh Here is the website for Radio 3, you can listen online you just need to download some software, which I believe is free.

No, I'd like to know how other people listen to Radio 3.

I stumbled across Radio 3's "Building a Library" one morning when they were discussing different recordings of the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto, and I thought it was fantastic - and totally accessible. For past shows that you haven't heard, all their recommendations are listed on the web, and coupled with Amazon it's a really good way of choosing a recommended recording instead of putting up with whatever's on the shelf at Borders. But then again, how can you compete with "Sing-a-long-a-Leslie" on Classic FM?!

i like both... but prefer radio 3. on classic fm u just get 1 mvt of a piece and then about an hour of people talking. radio 3 is all about the music! yay!

radio 3!!

i find classic fm play the same pieces over and over again and it really irritates me! i much prefer the variety on radio 3. Also, classic FMs obsession with "relaxing" music - not all classical music is meant to be relaxing! my personal favourites are often the very opposite!

Audience figures of a radio station isn't the only way to tell whether it's successful or not.

Radio sound broadcasting plays three roles in the society: to entertain, to educate and to inform. Judging by these areas, BBC Radio 3 is quite sucessful in doing what they're supposed to do. Their live broadcasts of concerts from all the different festivals around the UK is of special interest since they are allowing us to listen to music which is outside of the commercial music industry.