Full Version: Abrsm Exam Successes Under Valued In The School System
Our secondary school fortnightly newsletter always carries details of any pupils who have passed music exams. It will also praise pupils who have achieved anything noteworthy (excuse the pun!) in music - so for example winning the school or the town's Young Musician of the Year competition or winning a place at a junior dept Saturday school or the like. Just as they would celebrate someone being picked for a national school sports team. However, I think someone has to bring it to the school's attention - most of the instrumental teachers at the school submit lists of their pupils' exam results, and they are usually printed in one block within the newsletter, giving the child's name and tutor group, followed by instrument/voice, the grade taken and the result.
My daughters' school is an over subscribed London Comprehensive with Specialist Music School status & now with 15 coveted Music Places.
My link with the school is now 15 years and in that time the school has never published any music exam results on the school notice board or in the school weekly newsletter. They have also never published any musical achievement news i.e., succesful entry to LSSO, NYO or Pro Corda and certainly never mentioned a succesful audition to a Junior Conservatoire. The school always has at least two or three students in the LSSO and at least one in the NYO. Further students regularly audition succesfully for ProCorda and Junior Conservatoires. The school has four major music performances a year but only the Musical Theatre/Drama production is highlighted with photographs on display and a write up in the newsletter subsequently. Yet the Senior orchestra's overseas tour doesnt get a photo in the newsletter or on the main plasma screen notice board in the Entrance Hall! Most peculiar!
I have no idea why these (Clasical) musical achievements are not seen as worthy of mentioning in the news letters, in the same way that the GCSE/A level results are printed and displayed in the Entrance Hall at the school for all to see brilliant passes, barely passes, fails and spectacular fails! Perhaps this is a DfES requirement for GCSEs or the school would opt out of that display also.
Likewise despite the school not offering a GCSE PE. the sports department is regularly mentioned in despatches with pics in the local news rag!
My link with the school is now 15 years and in that time the school has never published any music exam results on the school notice board or in the school weekly newsletter. They have also never published any musical achievement news i.e., succesful entry to LSSO, NYO or Pro Corda and certainly never mentioned a succesful audition to a Junior Conservatoire. The school always has at least two or three students in the LSSO and at least one in the NYO. Further students regularly audition succesfully for ProCorda and Junior Conservatoires. The school has four major music performances a year but only the Musical Theatre/Drama production is highlighted with photographs on display and a write up in the newsletter subsequently. Yet the Senior orchestra's overseas tour doesnt get a photo in the newsletter or on the main plasma screen notice board in the Entrance Hall! Most peculiar!
I have no idea why these (Clasical) musical achievements are not seen as worthy of mentioning in the news letters, in the same way that the GCSE/A level results are printed and displayed in the Entrance Hall at the school for all to see brilliant passes, barely passes, fails and spectacular fails! Perhaps this is a DfES requirement for GCSEs or the school would opt out of that display also.
Likewise despite the school not offering a GCSE PE. the sports department is regularly mentioned in despatches with pics in the local news rag!
QUOTE(Ayshah @ Oct 5 2007, 09:18 AM) 
My daughters' school is an over subscribed London Comprehensive with Specialist Music School status & now with 15 coveted Music Places.
My link with the school is now 15 years and in that time the school has never published any music exam results on the school notice board or in the school weekly newsletter. They have also never published any musical achievement news i.e., succesful entry to LSSO, NYO or Pro Corda and certainly never mentioned a succesful audition to a Junior Conservatoire. The school always has at least two or three students in the LSSO and at least one in the NYO. Further students regularly audition succesfully for ProCorda and Junior Conservatoires. The school has four major music performances a year but only the Musical Theatre/Drama production is highlighted with photographs on display and a write up in the newsletter subsequently. Yet the Senior orchestra's overseas tour doesnt get a photo in the newsletter or on the main plasma screen notice board in the Entrance Hall! Most peculiar!
I have no idea why these (Clasical) musical achievements are not seen as worthy of mentioning in the news letters, in the same way that the GCSE/A level results are printed and displayed in the Entrance Hall at the school for all to see brilliant passes, barely passes, fails and spectacular fails! Perhaps this is a DfES requirement for GCSEs or the school would opt out of that display also.
Likewise despite the school not offering a GCSE PE. the sports department is regularly mentioned in despatches with pics in the local news rag!
Shame on the management of that school!
QUOTE(chris ward65 @ Sep 26 2007, 02:52 PM)
I teach piano and theory in a school, and have had some good successes recently. One gifted lad passed 11 GCSEs, and received deserved acclaim on the school notice board and in the school newsletter. However, there was no mention of his Grade 6 piano distinction or his for grade 6 theory merit.
I asked another grade 6 student who has just done his music GCSE a year early whether he found studying for piano and theory grades harder than the GCSE. He said the GCSE took less studying.
Is it me? Is it just my school? or is this qualification undervalued in the school curriculum?
BUT WAIT!, a glimmer of hope!
I have just been asked for instrumental exam results so that they can accompany the GCSE results to be given to whichever body receives such information.
So there is some form of recognition!
QUOTE(Dulciana @ Sep 30 2007, 09:40 AM)
It may well be that the slower-moving child will perfect pieces of music to an ultimately higher standard than the one who learns exceptionally quickly, or may be naturally better at aural tests - but there will be something in there that's worthy of special praise, and the school/the parents/the teacher should not be simply focussing on certificates with this slower child. His sense of achievement will come from the fact that he has personally improved upon something specific in, say, the last few weeks, rather than the fact that he has acquired a certain certificate before somebody else. And he should be taught that perfection in an easy piece is more important than playing a difficult piece in a mediocre way.
However this does need careful handling on the part of the teacher - and parent. Not to mention a certain amount of maturity in the child. A love of the music, and a love of learning it for its own sake needs to be present. Too many youngsters are pushed into things with a view to comparative achievement rather than because the child will gain something unquantifiable. (Is that a word...?
) And it is only once this child realises that he is doing this 'for himself' that he will be able to deal with manageable goals and truly achieve. And sometimes it is these pupils who can surprise us all as time goes by, as a positive attitude, and staying power, can be worth more than oodles of natural talent in the early stages.So yes, we should celebrate success - and we should also be realistic with those to whom it won't come easily. Such is life, and the sooner we learn to deal with that the better.
Well said. I think this sentiment should be framed and hung up in every school. 
QUOTE(ad_libitum @ Sep 29 2007, 12:07 AM)
It's the same mentality that means the child who comes first in sportsday gets the same prize and recognition as the one who finishes last 
A pupil told me about his sportsday and I asked if he won anything, to which he looked confused and said "everyone wins!"... That doesn't make any sense! If you are running a race how can you ignore the fact that someone must have crossed the finish line first?! Or did they all have to run at the same speed perhaps?
I really ought not to get started on this because it's something I really do climb on my soapbox about... but now I've started I'd better finish. A pupil told me about his sportsday and I asked if he won anything, to which he looked confused and said "everyone wins!"... That doesn't make any sense! If you are running a race how can you ignore the fact that someone must have crossed the finish line first?! Or did they all have to run at the same speed perhaps?
Changes in society in the last decade or so have created a 'non-failure' system, not just in exams, but anything supposedly competitive in general, particularly when it comes to the children in schools. They start growing up with the view (be it correct or otherwise) that they are a success in everything. None of us can be successful at everything, we all have strengths and weaknesses. Mine at school was sports day, in particular. At only 5 feet tall now, and clearly a lot less than that at school I hadn't really got a lot going for me on sports day, especially when it came to running. There was first, second and third place only in the races and being one of the tinniest pupils, I generally came last in every single one. Yes it was disappointing, but, it taught me to be a good loser and to realise that we all have strengths and weakenesses. It also gave me direction in life and told me in what areas I was 'flogging a dead' horse and where I was clearly streets ahead of the rest. These days, with the 'everyone is a winner at everything' idea, we risk giving people false information about their aptitudes.
With reference to ABRSM exam success being undervalued in the school system, I believe music is undervalued not just in schools, but also in society. Sadly, a large proprtion of the UK native population is not very cultured when it comes to music, particularly genres outside those of mainstream pop/rock. We are however renowned for producing man-made girl and boy bands.
QUOTE(AmandaL @ Oct 5 2007, 01:54 PM)
I believe music is undervalued not just in schools, but also in society. Sadly, a large proprtion of the UK native population is not very cultured when it comes to music, particularly genres outside those of mainstream pop/rock. We are however renowned for producing man-made girl and boy bands.
I have taught too many people in the last few years who are products of the 'I am successful at everything' education system and who actually have no real understanding of their own true abilities/shortcomings. I am all for boosting self-esteem and self-confidence but this trend is very worrying.
QUOTE(Cyrilla @ Oct 5 2007, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE(AmandaL @ Oct 5 2007, 01:54 PM)
I believe music is undervalued not just in schools, but also in society. Sadly, a large proprtion of the UK native population is not very cultured when it comes to music, particularly genres outside those of mainstream pop/rock. We are however renowned for producing man-made girl and boy bands.
I have taught too many people in the last few years who are products of the 'I am successful at everything' education system and who actually have no real understanding of their own true abilities/shortcomings. I am all for boosting self-esteem and self-confidence but this trend is very worrying.
I find it makes it very hard to encourage students, or to make them realise that they really need to do their daily practice. I have one student (a young beginner) who basically never practises. A few weeks ago I was talking to her mother about it (in front of the pupil, saying "Well much as I'd like to, I can never give her a sticker, because she doesn't earn it") and the mother said "But she's great isn't she?" and I replied "Well, I don't know about that..." Suddenly the child has started to work and stickers have of course been forthcoming.
If you have nothing to aim for (being better, receiving praise (or stickers!)etc) why would you bother trying? Its a disaster!
This approach does damage. You tell a child they can do everything and then they go out into the Real World. Sooner or later that'll happen, and it is not nice. Especially for themore able kids - they're never stretched, and suddenly they have to work. What does that do to them? The less able see themselves as failures because they more able just breeze through, and then the more able in turn get a massive shock when required to work, or become perfectionists. Not a good setup for life, because life if anything is competitive.
QUOTE(Rosemary7391 @ Oct 5 2007, 05:38 PM)
This approach does damage. You tell a child they can do everything and then they go out into the Real World. Sooner or later that'll happen, and it is not nice. Especially for themore able kids - they're never stretched, and suddenly they have to work. What does that do to them?
Both my daughters dropped out of 6th form.
The eldest has since told me that one of the problems she had was that this was actually the first time she'd ever had to put in any effort for her school work.
She got all the way to 10 GCSEs (A-C) without really having to try.
Being near the top end of her year group academically she could keep up without much effort.
I suspect that it was pretty much the same for my younger daughter.
In their mid 20s they are both happy with what they are doing now.
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Oct 5 2007, 06:09 PM)
QUOTE(Rosemary7391 @ Oct 5 2007, 05:38 PM)
This approach does damage. You tell a child they can do everything and then they go out into the Real World. Sooner or later that'll happen, and it is not nice. Especially for themore able kids - they're never stretched, and suddenly they have to work. What does that do to them?
Both my daughters dropped out of 6th form.
The eldest has since told me that one of the problems she had was that this was actually the first time she'd ever had to put in any effort for her school work.
She got all the way to 10 GCSEs (A-C) without really having to try.
Being near the top end of her year group academically she could keep up without much effort.
I suspect that it was pretty much the same for my younger daughter.
In their mid 20s they are both happy with what they are doing now.
I'm in the midst of being devastated at a couple of my AS results (not bad ones, but worse than I'd expect based on GCSE) because I didn't put it the work because I'd never had to before. I'm also suddenly overwhelmed by work and I've never particularly struggled to get things done before.There need to be more challenges set for students who are considered gifted, so that they understand how to work/revise before it actually becomes important... I feel that this is sacrificed in a few subjects to avoid offending less able children, and that's a big problem.
QUOTE(Cyrilla @ Oct 5 2007, 03:41 PM)
I have taught too many people in the last few years who are products of the 'I am successful at everything' education system and who actually have no real understanding of their own true abilities/shortcomings. I am all for boosting self-esteem and self-confidence but this trend is very worrying.
This I is wha tI was trying ot say earlier ion the thread
glad someone's a bit more articulate than I am.I so agree!!
QUOTE(lucky045 @ Oct 5 2007, 05:18 PM)
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Oct 5 2007, 06:09 PM)
QUOTE(Rosemary7391 @ Oct 5 2007, 05:38 PM)
This approach does damage. You tell a child they can do everything and then they go out into the Real World. Sooner or later that'll happen, and it is not nice. Especially for themore able kids - they're never stretched, and suddenly they have to work. What does that do to them?
Both my daughters dropped out of 6th form.
The eldest has since told me that one of the problems she had was that this was actually the first time she'd ever had to put in any effort for her school work.
She got all the way to 10 GCSEs (A-C) without really having to try.
Being near the top end of her year group academically she could keep up without much effort.
I suspect that it was pretty much the same for my younger daughter.
In their mid 20s they are both happy with what they are doing now.
I'm in the midst of being devastated at a couple of my AS results (not bad ones, but worse than I'd expect based on GCSE) because I didn't put it the work because I'd never had to before. I'm also suddenly overwhelmed by work and I've never particularly struggled to get things done before.There need to be more challenges set for students who are considered gifted, so that they understand how to work/revise before it actually becomes important... I feel that this is sacrificed in a few subjects to avoid offending less able children, and that's a big problem.
This just why my 'gifted' daughter started the violin when she was in yr 1. I was worried that she would never learn to struggle with work at school. It was all too easy. I don't want her to fail for the first time when she is , say, at university and away from home. She might crumble. Learning an instrument has helped her to learn to learn. At first she said "I don't want to have to practice, I just want to be able to play". I had to explain that most people struggled to read/do sums etc and this normal. Then whenever things get hard, she panics and says "I'm rubbish at the violin" as she is not used to struggling. I am hoping in the future she will be able to apply what she is learning through playing the violin to academic work. I am hoping she will learn to learn and not to panic when things are tough.
We had the "I'm rubbish" scenario recently when she was presented with her Grade 3 music, as it's tricky for her... and it's important now, a couple of weeks down the line to say "See... you thought you'd never be able to play these pieces and now you can."
argh! this is one of my many, many pet hates. i'll just relay a conversation with my head of year about my 'future' quickly to illustrate me point.
HOY: so lenia, what are your plans for next year?
me: oh music college
HOY: oh *simpers* and will you be going to uni after that.
me: *grumpily* music college IS uni. you work for a DEGREE. they're really called conservatoires (big posh voice)
HOY: oh right... so what grades do you need for that?
me: depends on my audition, possibly 2 Es. worst case scenario, 2 C's.
HOY: oh, is that it?
me: well know, i have to play at grade 8 distinction level under pressure for 4 auditions.
HOY: yeah well, but you ONLY need to Es?
me: no, i need 2 Es AND a grade 8 distinction audition.
HOY: *says nothing but i can see him restraining from patting me on the head and saying 'that's nice dear'*
yes, just an example.
git.
HOY: so lenia, what are your plans for next year?
me: oh music college
HOY: oh *simpers* and will you be going to uni after that.
me: *grumpily* music college IS uni. you work for a DEGREE. they're really called conservatoires (big posh voice)
HOY: oh right... so what grades do you need for that?
me: depends on my audition, possibly 2 Es. worst case scenario, 2 C's.
HOY: oh, is that it?
me: well know, i have to play at grade 8 distinction level under pressure for 4 auditions.
HOY: yeah well, but you ONLY need to Es?
me: no, i need 2 Es AND a grade 8 distinction audition.
HOY: *says nothing but i can see him restraining from patting me on the head and saying 'that's nice dear'*
yes, just an example.
git.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.