I have a gorgeous and very keen little pupil aged 7 going on 8. When she started having lessons with me in March she quickly developed a really good practice routine, practising daily - sometimes even twice a day! Her father would tell me she kept the violin hanging on the wall and would get it out frequently just to play to her parents and little sister. Her progress was stunning, unsurprisingly given the amount of practice she was doing.

Now for the bad news: since she came back in September (she was abroad all summer otherwise she'd have continued having lessons during the holidays) I've noticed a sudden and rather steep falling off in the amount of practice she seems able or happy to do. Today she seemed very tired and I asked her what the problem was; she told me she's now getting quite a bit of homework: spellings for a weekly test, times tables for a weekly test, bits of science homework etc etc. Some of her sparkle has gone, although after a few games and easy pieces it returned.... but I'm worried.

With the national curriculum demanding so much of children, especially juniors and from then on, both in and out of school, is it even practicable to expect children of this age and upwards to do the amount of practice necessary for real progress on the violin?

Do we really need to pressure our children quite so much with school-work after school? How many adults like to bring their work home with them? Do European children have to do so much homework from age 7? I think not, but shall ask my Austrian cousin who's a primary school teacher, and get back to you on that one.

I feel quite despondent all of a sudden - this girl was doing so brilliantly and now she's just beginning to drift.

Unfortunately I think they do. The homework is only spelling and times tables and I'll think you will agree that both are very important. Not sure if anyone else has noticed but the level of spelling amongst the younger generation has severly dropped. When talking to alot of my friends they spell alot of things incorrectly, and these are people who are clever and top of the class.

It is a shame that they seem to be messing up her routine schedule. Hopefully she'll get back into a routine again. She has only been at school for 4 weeks this year probably and so she'll still be trying to get organised and figure out a routine.

All the best



I guess this depends. Obviously highly academic students will not need to spend as much time doing work, both in and out of school and thus would have more free time to practice enough to make real progress. On the other hand you'll get the naturally talented musicians who don't need to practice, initially, as much as others need to to make real progress. Those who are not musically talented and not academic will probably find it hard to keep up with the practice required. 'Tis a shame.

Hmmm... but I am a good speller (always have been) and good at multiplication, and yet I didn't have that much homework at that age... (my primary education was basically pre-NC)

(I'm not convinced how important times tables are to be honest - I could never recite the dratted things, they always confused me, and yet I have always been pretty good at the kind of simple multiplication they're suppose to teach...)

I do sympathise - frustrating to have such a promising pupil take a backwards step.

I wonder if partly it's also because she got out of her routine in the long holiday ? I find this happens quite a lot with children who go away for all or most of the summer. The getting back on track plus a bit more homework would be a double whammy in this case.

You may find that it will settle down once things start to feel a bit more normal for her. Some of mine are taking a while to get going - although this week has on the whole gone better than the one before.

There is so much more to fit into school because of the NC. Obviously I don't know what it was like pre-NC The reason for the homework at such a young age is to gradually ease you in to the art of homework Otherwise when you get to high school there'd be a big shock....similar to going from high school to college... It's better to ease children in at a younger age and let them get used to doing homework. Just like you would do when learning to swim. Start in the shallow end and then after time you gradually move onto the deep end

I love times tables so I won't get on to them

I did the National Curriculum... I always got 10/10 in spelling tests without practising, and always got somewhere from 0-3/10 in times-tables, with practise. I still don't know my sixes or my eights.

It is highly likely that they do have as much homework, but as the set-up of the school system in places such as Germany, where schools start early in the morning and finish at lunchtime, it is hard to compare. Once they have got home they have all afternoon to do their homework and practise!

Violinia this may not be what it seems. My eldest returns to School in September and takes it in her stride, she's ready for her after school activities too. The youngest on the other hand takes time to get back into the routine. It won't be as obvious as your pupil, as she did alot of practice over the summer, but at the start of term her practice time dips. After a few weeks she's back to herself and not as tired but it does take time to adjust.

Give it another coupleof weeks and see how things go, it's possible that it will naturally slot back into place.

Hope things gowell for you both

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Yes perhaps I'm overreacting and she just needs to settle into the routine. It does make me sad, though, that where once she had so much time to devote to the violin (and just relaxing after school), it's now beginning to feel to her like one more thing she has to do when she gets home, amidst all the other obligations (where before there were none).

When they're as tiny as she is, you can hardly believe they have to do so much.... Whenever another pupil gets to see her (if they're just leaving when she arrives or just arriving when she leaves) they always start raving about how dear she is - which she is. She's this petite little angel with the brightest eyes you can imagine, with immense natural grace and talent - I really, really don't want this one to fall by the wayside when she has so much potential.

Perhaps I have to change the style of the lessons to give her a fresh boost. Today we played a game where she had to call the tempo of the new piece she was learning and then we both played it together - she made it go faster and faster and played it really well each time! She did seem to brighten up as the lesson went on, which was good.

She's already mastering the Prep Test pieces and she's only been playing since the spring. I've worked SO hard with her and her technique is virtually perfect - I just don't want it all to go wrong!!!

Perhapd I'm worrying too much...

Sometimes I think parents can make too much of a fuss about these things. A few spellings and tables shouldn't be a big issue. We do them in the car on the way home and go over them again on the way to school the next morning - or I ask them from time to time throughout the day, while doing the dishes or something. Turning it all into a big 'sit-down-and-concentrate' deal only serves to give the child the attitude that this is not fun and is 'pressure'. I've just read a post from possum in another thread where she describes learning EGBDF and FACE in a taxi once. Sounds good to me! If parents make homework a big issue at this age, what hope is there for music practice at A Level time?

As a TA in a primary school I know that the amout of homework should not take a child long to complete and generally is to help them in class.
When my nephew lived in France he had far more homework that my two had.
I suspect it's as a previous poster has said she's got out of routine during the summer maybe mum and dad can gently guide her back into a good routine so she has time to do schoolwork, practise and play.

In the French primary school where I teach the children have homework from the age of six - and a pretty hefty load of it. Some of the children are at school as early as 8 am where they are looked after in the "garderie". Our school hours are from 9 until 12 and then 1. 30 to 5 with a twenty minute break in the morning and the same in the afternoon. From 5 until 6.30 many of them are still in the garderie.

The latest figures show that 40 % of children entering their first year of secondary school do not have sufficient levels in reading and maths.

The school day is far too long, the children have too much homework and they still aren't getting to the required standard. Perhaps one day someone in the ministry of education will wake up to the fact that it is quality and not quantity which counts. Hours of time are wasted in school and children are tired out.

In spite of this I have some keen piano pupils who somehow find time to practise. I can only suppose that good French food helps with stamina.

However, Violinia, for your pupil it is early in the school year and she may just need a bit more time to adjust. Hope it gets sorted out.

I am half Italian and attended primary school in Italy and I had LOADS of homework from age 6 but that was 32 years ago
BUT I do know some people in Italy at present, some with young children and NOTHING has changed in the homework routine. They still have from age 6 daily homework to do, they have to buy books for school from that age too and have to read/do exercises from the books daily.
I have always found that in the UK 'most' children at primary school get away with no or little homework to do. My friend's children at present 7 and 8 bring homework home once a week if that!!! I am always HORRIFIED by this.
My son who is now 12 used to take homework home (here in UK) every other day at age 5, it was just a 10 minutes homework but he did have it, and we had to read every day for 10 minutes and keep a reading diary. I was quite pleased with his routine, it seemed to be 'just enough'.

I also do think that 'Violinia's student' might just be finding it a little hard to re-settle after a long nice break abroad and she should be alright soon enough.
Good luck to her and Violinia

Sounds like another good idea that has to be worth a try!

Not sure about this, Ben. My children are older, so I'm looking back 10 years or so, but in their day the top group were always given much harder homework than the bottom group, so I don't think it took any less time. On more than one occasion I refused to let my son finish an open-ended project which had resulted in no time to play out during beautiful weather, and wrote in to the school to explain my reasons.

The way we got round the practice issue was to make the main practice of the day before school. Primary schools start relatively late and primary kids are up relatively early, so a 20 minute practice after breakfast when the children were fresh was easily arranged. Then if the children wanted/had time to play again after school, that was fine, but just for fun, so relaxed and no pressure.


My kids had these amazing tables tapes, which they loved singing along to in the car. We always walked to school, and used to do spellings and sums on the way, with lots of praise. They were fresher at that time of day and quite receptive as they had Mum's full attention!

I do hope your promising pupil won't get too tired and jaded at such a young age, Violinia. Does she have a snack between end of school and your lesson? It can make all the difference at this age, so you could enquire delicately of her mum.

I do accept that sometimes it is not possible for a primary school child to find 20-25 minutes to practice on a school day as my 10 year old daughter leaves for school at 7.30 (if going by bus) and doesn't get home until 5.20. if she has a band practice or hockey (her one physical activity on a school night - she horse rides at the weekend) then she only has an hour between arriving home and leaving for practice. During this time she needs to eat and do her prep as her practice will finish at about 8.00 and she needs to be in bed at around 8.30 (8.45 at the latest).

She is certainly not a child who does too many activities, watches the TV (in fact I don't think she has EVER seen kids TV on a school night!), or plays computer games or is on the internet. She simply has long days.

However, in order to accomodate this, I generally drive her to school so she can leave about half an hour later and the deal is that if I am prepared to drive her to school to give her 30 minutes extra then she spends it practising. This works great (although a fortissimo trombone at 7.30 in the morning is a bit savage sometimes!) except for the days when she stops overnight at her nan's so I can work late, which is generally once a week. Those days she can't practice at all and its through no fault of hers or mine. There simply aren't enough hours in the day.

Oh, and going to a school with shorter days is not an option - she LOVES her school. Long days and all.

I agree about practising in the morning before school where possible. With my own children, I had them doing at least part of their practice then, and it was a real bonus having them fresh and alert rather than tired at the other end of the day.

The only problem, of course, is the neighbours if one lives in a terraced/semi-detached property! At the time when we had this schedule we were really lucky in that the people on one side were elderly and rather hard-of-hearing, and the couple on the other side didn't mind as they were up early too.

I think the "more" rather than "less" homework trend will be around for a while. However, even in Japan it depends a lot on individual teachers at elementary school level, and it simply takes some kids longer to learn to deal with it efficiently (and nothing to do with brainpower either, seems to be some individual variation in maturity).

Two things helped:

* A little morning practice

* Starting violin at the same time every afternoon/evening (even if it had to be cut short because of pressure of homework or whatever).

Children also seem to be inspired by story books that involve music or musical children - I don't mean the biography of Mozart type, but the "kid next door plays piano" type!

And speaking of practice, I do believe that the "break for afternoon tea" has now lasted longer than the practice that preceded it, so I'd better go and enquire into the situation!

But that makes the gap between top set and bottom set worse than it is...



And it IS bad. Like some people in maths bottom set are Level 4 at age 14, and several of the maths top set people are Level 8 at age 13...

and spelling is definitely becoming atrocious. my friend spells favourite - 'faveriote'

At the risk of being really controversial I don't think primary school children should get any homework at all. They spend six and a half hours a day in school as it is, for heavens sake.

My mother comes from Vienna and they only went to school from 8.00-1.00pm. You could stay and do sport in the afternoons in secondary school. They never had homework, ever.

My mother's brother became a professor of physics with an illustrious career in the US and my mother's cousin became a well-known music critic and was the chamber music coach at the Yehudi Menuhin school.

No homework, ever.

However, their classes were small - and small classes need massive investment in education. I met a Swiss student teacher recently who was horrified at the size of English classes.

Our system of daily homework for little children probably ends up just putting vast mumbers of children off the joy of learning for life. Being made to read out loud on a daily basis hasn't exactly led to an increase in the amount of reading for pleasure, has it? I doubt boys have ever read less, Harry Potter notwithstanding.

It's sad but you can't hold people back to make them all the same. If we did that then there would be no Doctors etc in a few years. Can you also imagine the pressure if you were one of the lowest ability people?

What seems really silly is the way the expected levels work. Level 7 is about the same as a Grade C at GCSE. So, when you are 11 you should have Level 4, 3 years later you are supposed to get Level 5 and then you have to get 2 levels higher in 2 years. Seems silly!

Smaller classes and shorter days would be great So would not having to jump through as many hoops - maybe we could learn something then, rather than just passing exams.

We can't overlook the difference in class sizes, though, in comparing different systems. If a child in a small class is struggling with maths problems because he doesn't know his tables, then the teacher will be able to give him some individual help. In a class of 30 she won't be able to do this, and so there is no alternative but for the child to 'go learn' in his own time. Otherwise he will not be able to move on - I'm from the school of thought that thinks knowing your tables inside out is funadamental, however you get them into your head.
'Pracising' them at home is the obvious way to do it, freeing up the teacher to move on to their application in real mathematical problems.

I don't think we can object to children being given homeworks to improve their maths when we expect them to work at their music at home. Whether we like it or not, maths is more likely to be of use to them in finding a job, budgeting their resources, doing the shopping, etc, than their music (for most, anyway). Homework can highlight where a child's problems are in a way that work done in school may not, when the teacher is always on hand. What I object to is written homework that is given in the full knowledge that parental involvement will be absolutely necessary for the young child to do it at all. If homework is meant to be an exercise in self-discpline, then I feel that this actually undermines that, and adds to the 'spoon-fed' mentality. Homework should be appropriate to the age of the child and the level of concentration that means they can do it on their own - with the odd mistake if necessary. Parents having to sign every homework means that the child will often switch off, as it knows that mum or dad is only going to sign when it's acceptable, with whatever interference is required, and the whole process is prolonged. Child says "I'm done" and sods off. Mum yells "No you're not. Come back" and the end result is that the whole process takes far longer than it should. If the child is left to its own devices it is much more likely to take responsibility for itself and produce an accepatable piece of work first time.

So in short - I do agree with homework, but I feel that schools respond far too much to those parents who feel that the calibre of a school can be assessed according to how much homework is dished out.

I agree that with large classes too many children could fall through the net if not given homework but some schools don't even bother looking at homework or marking it properly. I've lost count of the times the kids I teach have told me about homework they've laboured over only to find the teacher doesn't even look at it for several weeks, or if they do, just give it a cursory mark, which needless to say, is totally demoralising for the child.

I remember homework being gone over with a fine toothcomb with every single inaccuracy carefully pointed out - but back then teachers weren't anything like as stressed or overloaded as they are now.

The whole thing's become a complete nightmare and it's hardly surprising the country's becoming more dumbed-down by the day. I listen to university students on the bus every week and feel despair at their conversations. Somehow we've managed to dumb down virtually an entire generation, and I think it's a complete tragedy.

I wish primary school kids could just be kids - the odd spelling and maths test is fine for homework purposes but the incessant "school project" really drives me nuts! It's not as though they are able to do it all themselves which means that parents get roped in.

The children of "Yummy Mummies" obviously come in with immaculate projects (castles - complete with turrets, flags, working drawbridge, courtyard and moat ) and you feel bad for your child if they go in with a cardboard box with a few squiggles on.

I agree with Dulciana - if we all agreed to let kids get on with it and not interfere, things would be a lot simpler. We're creating a generation of kids that can't use their own initiative which will prove disastrous in the long run.

The interesting thing that caught me during my last experience working in school, was the difference in size between top and lower sets. Top set would frequently have 30 -35 students in it, while lower sets would generally have fewer than 20, and with extra teaching assisstants to help.

While I applaud extra support for the lower sets, where an extra pair of hands to deal with attention seeking and disruptive children can make all the difference. I feel for the top sets where there is no one to ask talented children more stretching questions, and get them thinking more about the topic they're studying. I really enjoyed working with bright but sometimes bored children, and having the time their teacher lacked to answer their wilder questions.

"Why can't you create a human with a cows head, miss?"

When I was at school, primary and secondary, homework was rarely too challenging. Teachers know that if they set anything too ridiculous, students simply won't bother with it.

I agree - once my daughter has spent 6 hours in school per day, she should really just be able to play and mess around, not have to do more schoolwork - she is only 7! It makes me cross

Thank you! I remember feeling as a child - and that was in the days before there was so much homework - that they were punishing us for being children! I just couldn't wait to escape from it all and have control over my free time.

Think about it - SIX HOURS a day should be enough for the primary school years. That's a thirty hour week from the age of 4! And more from the age of 7 when the homework starts piling up. Why shouldn't 30 hours be enough? Children can start learning independent study skills from the age of 11 - they still have five years before sitting GCSEs.

If 30 hours a week in school isn't enough for children to learn basic English, maths and science, then educational advisors should start looking afresh at class sizes and the structure of the school day.

I spent a day in a Viennese primary school a few months ago and saw children from very deprived backgrounds with far better concentration, handwriting and spoken German than their counterparts in this country. But they're in classes of no more than 22, because Austria apparently holds its children in far more regard than we do.

Class sizes, don't get me started . The Japanese education authorities weren't happy about the latest sets of international science and maths placings, so there are plans to return to the 6-day school week.

BUT. Cut class sizes to improve achievement? NEVER!!! It isn't just a fluke that Japan spends less on education than almost any other OECD country!

Apparently large classes are "good for you." You HAVE to have over 35 in a class or you couldn't make two teams. Darn right, I know so many team sports which are played with 17 on one team and 18 on the other!!!

Homework, I'm not totally against it, as the reading aloud and the math testing helps parents realize just how their Tweetie is coping with the nuts and bolts of the curriculum. Self-study is often when actual learning goes on, rather than during the more passive "being taught" classroom time, but a little goes a very long way with young children.

Six hours in school sounds like a lot, but in reality they're not always doing something constructive in that time. It takes teachers longer than it did in the past to get the class to listen at all, for a start - and woe betide the teacher who does this in an 'unacceptable' way, without first dealing with every child's every little gripe in the process. Personally I'd rather see a teacher who leads from the front, puts learning first, takes no cr*p, and doesn't worry unduly about political correctness and parents' sensitivities. But in the current climate of 'child is always right' I can see why this type of teacher is a dying breed. But I'd much rather that requirements were more rigidly enforced in school, leaving me free to get on with being simply a parent.

I agree about the projects, LT. Either we allow our offspring to feel inadequate with their own efforts, or we encourage them to take the attitude that too much effort is to be derided, or we join the club of 'yummy mummies', do what the others do, and do most of the dam thing for them. It's a no-win situation. So we all continue to spoon-feed in order to keep up with the Joneses.

Why can't teachers just tell parents to butt out?

'Though I suppose our acceptance of that would depend on how much faith we have in the teachers, and considering the guidelines they're given from above, I'm afraid that isn't always very much. Sadly.

I've just read this topic; this is one of my bugbears . In my area we have lots of excellent secondary schools, all vying for higher rankings in the league tables. In order to achieve this, some schools are shortening lunch hours, giving extra tuition in lunch hours and after school and even in the holidays. It all leads
to increased stress for pupils, particularly those who have problems managing their time. Over the last 10 years I have noticed a steady decline in pupils taking instrumental lessons past Year 9. The sheer volume of coursework does not allow them to timetable in regular practice so they give up because they are not progressing as fast as they would like There is also pressure on junior school pupils re SATS and entrance exams, and this has a knock-on effect on instrumental lessons.

That said, the more enthusiastic and perhaps more able pupil, can cope. I have a 14-year old working for Grade 8 piano, music festival, various concerts, she also is working for Grade 6 violin and finds time for sport. She is highly intelligent and highly organised (with parental help). So I try to help other pupils by talking about scheduling a regular practice time. Sponsored practices help too!

As for all those extra-curricular activities, well some children are never allowed to get bored and become creative these days. It is very noticeable how busy lots of them are when you try to timetable lessons!

My year 11 daughter has gone to Ranger Camp this weekend. She stayed behind twice last week to do Art and usually stays for Maths once a week. She only got out of Maths this week as she went to her friends after school (they are involved in an after school project connected with school). She was told in no uncertain terms that she must do more work on her Art over the weekend. I wouldn't mind if she was behind but she is infact ahead with all her coursework.

There is a ridiculous amount of coursework for Art. Really, I think that most subjects shouldn't have coursework - what is the point of it in maths, say, where you are all set the same problem and therefore all get the same answer at each stage? For subjects like art and music, it is needed, but it shouldn't be excessive!

In 6th form, we are expected to do an hours work for each hours lesson. That comes to 36 hours a week assuming the usual 4 subjects. And we have free periods as well to do the homework in! I really feel sorry for the poor kids in primary school who have 6 hours of lessons a day, plus homework!

Class behaviour... I remember the PE lesson that consisted of getting changed, waiting for the latecomers to get changed, taking the register, and getting changed again. And then we were late for the next class!!

Yes, that's more or less what I meant in my earlier post when I said it's quality that counts rather than quantity.
As far as class sizes are concerned even 22 (as Violinia said in Austria) is too many if you want real quality of work from the teacher and the children. I defy anyone to get round a class of 22 six year olds to show them how to hold a pencil correctly let alone teach them how to read. It is true that there are lots of things teachers can do to get skills learnt and information across and to encourage coherent and imaginative expression, logical thought and all the other things required. But what worries me is that because of the workload and the sheer weight of numbers, there is so much underachievement. We all use group work, project work, self correcting worksheets and so on. and all of that is fine and useful but you can't, in this day and age, get results en masse. Children are just not like that any more.

As far as parents are concerned some are absolutely super and supportive but not all. We had a parent teacher meeting last week. I put in a plea for easy to manage clothes and shoes for the 2 to 5 year olds. It is not much fun having to leave 18 unsupervised while I deal with the stiff buttons and zips, braces, tights and pants and the inevitable accident of the 19th because it takes too long to get to the toilet. One mother took offence saying that she felt she had the right to send the child to school in the clothes of her choice. I tried to explain that she only had one small child to deal with while I had 19. She just shrugged it off - but she will be the first to complain when the total amount of time wasted in class results in her child not being able to read.

Having just read all of the posts, I think that it is a sad indictment of our current education system.

Instead of all the faff about league tables and other administrative red tape, investment in education should be channelled not only into reducing class sizes, but also reducing school sizes so that each pupil is known individually (mainly applies of course to secondary school). Having taught year 6 pupils in classes varying in size from 18 to 24, I know what a difference even one or two bodies makes, even in a class of 11 year olds (let alone having 30 in a class! )

I also think that there is no harm in 15 minutes spent on a bit of homework when you're 7, but that is all it should be. And what is wrong with learning tables by rote - I've always found it extremely useful (but then I had an old dragon of a teacher when I was 6/7 and every one was petrified, but I bet we all left her class knowing our tables, and, actually, we all knew exactly where we were with her and everyone was happy ).

Perhaps your little violinist just needs to settle into a new routine as others have said - maybe she just feels that she's growing up a bit and getting a few responsibilities.

WHAT?!! 7 going onto 8...Sorry to vent but I learn 3 instruments, I still have to practice all 3, I am pressurised by my school to participate in at least 3 musical activities during lunches/after school, my parents make me do LOTS (totally booked every day of the week. Even Saturdays. I'm only free on Sundays) of extra curricular activities...

And on top of all of that, I get all the other school h.w. If I can put up with this routine for years, how can the little girl not put up with little bits of homework?!!

Ok...She's 8 but still.

Could one politely ask roughly how old you are? No obligation to reply of course

because she's 8, quite frankly.

it's fine when you're older, but when you're that little, concentrating just for one lesson at school is immensely difficult (i still struggle now!)

and why should she have any homework when she's only 8? 6 hours at school a day should be more than enough for her being so little.

also, when most people get home from school/work, they want some time to relax. not just to continue their working day. how on earth is she meant to relax? in fact, it's evident she isn't by her lack of enthusiasm for something she was progressing so well on.
at that age, what the teacher says go. when you're older you can put things off til another day and judge for yourself whether or not something is worth doing and just put up with the consequences. at 8, if the teacher tells you to practice your spellings/multiplications every day, you do it. even if mum assures you that they're fine and not to worry about them.

and besides, for an 8 year old, these are not just little bits of homework. these are BIG bits of homework.

I don't know if that's true... I did fairly well in these homeworks and spelling tests when I was eight or nine... I doubt they are truly that time-consuming, though some struggle more than others. Perhaps when the little girl is more used to them she'll be better able to practise - but in themselves, if she only has spelling and multiplication, it shouldn't be too difficult in the long term. I do sympathise with those children who have piles of homework (at seventeen I can barely cope, so how can they?!) but a few words to learn and some multiplication tables should be fine when the little girl gets into the swing of things. It took about ten minutes a night when my little sister was younger. She still had time to relax, and I remember lots of relaxation time in my childhood too.

I will make myself very unpopular and say that I think these little bits of homework are actually good for children, and help them learn to concentrate and do things on their own without too much help. I don't think this kind of homework is overwhelming for 8-10 year olds and (dare I say it?) it sounds more symptomatic of an excuse for not practising than a legitimate complaint to me. After all isn't it true that after a holiday it takes a lot of children quite a while to get used to daily practising again?

What do I know though? I'm no teacher... I was a young child not too long ago though.

Just for a complete change of tack for a moment.
I wonder what time she goes to bed at? It can make a very big difference to a young child's attitude and enthusiasm, but in a busy household it can often be overlooked. Or maybe she's not eating healthily. Another thing that can go to the dogs in term time when there's more on the family agenda. We'll not talk about school dinners processed rubbish. And fresh air and exercise are important too.

But I agree with you lucky. It's all a question of attitude. We're talking, after all, about something that should take a few minutes. Rather than blame the 6 hour day, maybe we should blame the fact that so much dithering around is done in school that it's hard for the child to adjust to a mum or an instrumental teacher who's suddenly demanding a focussed response?

Im 13, and am expected to have... Well 13 hours of homework a week. Lucky me?
Whats worse, is i also have to go to piano lessons.

I wanted to take a break from piano just till half term (im having to change teachers) but the parents wont allow it, i need to get used to all this homework.

I dont see why all schools dont start 30minutes earlier, it would make everything so much easier.


Not only that, but thats 30minutes more spare time in the evening, yes it takes 30 minutes off the morning, but no ones going to be teaching at 8am...i think.

Well, this little girl isn't even 8 yet, and her parents aren't English. Her father works long hours and her mother, who hardly speaks any English at all, probably finds it quite a struggle to help her with her reading and spellings.

I'm sorry but I really, really don't think anything is gained by children having homework at this age. When I find out whether Viennese primary school children get homework these days I'll let you know. Just because all English schools do it doesn't mean it's the right thing - it may even be harmful and counter-productive for all we know.

This does make a bit of a difference to the situation! If she doesn't speak much English she probably even struggles to understand exactly what's required of her daughter.

Parents parents parents.

"She couldn't practise, she had sooo much work for her year 2 sats."

aghhhhhh. it drives me mad, for goodness sakes, children are getting stupider, and they're getting more homework, it's not working! I wasn't given homework til senior school, it wasn't a big deal. I'm sure most children of the age of 7 or 8 spend at least 20 minutes staring out the window and picking their nose, they could be playing piano instead.

In the end though it comes down to the parents, they're paying for lessons, and encouraging their child to play a musical instrument, they should then instill the practise ethic. They can't do well at school if they don't do their homework, why should an instrument be any different?

I will tell you why, because jonny junior "revising" for his year 6 SATs has the pressure of his teachers (who have to get good marks for their jobs' and schools' sake) on his back and his parents. GCSE's almost fair, but SATs are NOT about the child, they are about assessment for the school, and the pressure all goes to the child, how is this benefiting them?..talking to OH (who is a teacher) and, he doesn't agree with me, but I shan't broadcast our entire argument

Anyway, stupid english curriculum, and the "stress" that ends up with the child.

I understand what you're saying, Violinia, about homework being unnecessary, but that's just academic, so to say - the fact of the homework remains.

The little girl either has to do the homework, or her parents have to tell the teacher that their daughter, alone in the class, won't be doing homework...you can imagine what parent-teacher relationships would be like after that, and all the other kids would think she was "getting away with something" too.

I know what it's like to be the foreign parent, and I wouldn't dare stick my neck out in a situation like that, no matter how burdensome the homework was. I might not like classes of 40 6-year-olds, but there is no point in my yearning for the schools I went to myself, in another country, and at another time.

Even in music, there are plenty of cultural differences - the major Japanese violin site often enough gets Japanese mothers in the UK asking each other 1) what on earth is "ABRSM", and 2) why teachers in the UK teach the way they do! It may help to spell out exactly what and how long you want practiced.

Not meaning to negate your points, just to say that unfortunately, they don't change the reality of school for your pupil.

I agree (except about children getting stupider - you must have only met a small cross-section, you can't base a whole argument on that... but )
SATs are not important - as evidenced by the fact that though children take SATs at the end of year six, to be set in Secondary school they take another test. How can you say the SATs are worth anything after that?

GCSEs are about the child though, unlike SATs. My mum's a teacher, and though she will vaguely mention value added each year, she spends much more time thinking about poor Whoever who could have done better for themselves.

This stress though, is not the fault of the homework - homework in itself can't harm someone, however coupled with an overenthusiastic parent (or one who's foreign and doesn't understand the amount of time and work necessary) it probably can be overwhelming.

I agree with everything you say except about parents instilling the practice ethic. This is fine in theory but there will nearly always come a time when the child will become reluctant to practice. My parents were brilliant at instilling the practice ethic but I remember resisting from time to time. My mother remembers it too! However, I wasn't bogged down with loads of homework from age 7! This is because I grew up in the 50's when there was a more relaxed attitude to all this, and children were alllowed to just hang loose and unwind after school.

But everything else you say - you're spot on.




I know full well it can't be helped. I'm just expressing my sadness that a child who once couldn't wait to get her violin out and practise at virtually any moment available, and was progressing brilliantly because of it, is now starting to feel tired and stressed with all the other stuff she has to do after school.

Children of 7 shouldn't have to do more school work after school, period. Their parents should perhaps be encouraged to teach them their times tables, and should always read to them at night, but I also feel that all this daily making children read out loud could actually be counterproductive and end up making reading feel like a chore rather than a chore.

My mother is foreign and would have struggled with helping me with science homework, as this mother has to help my pupil. But what my mother did do was read to me (in her Viennese accent ) every night. I looked over her shoulder, worked out where the words were and taught myself to read without her even knowing it was happening.

But science homework at age 7? Why? It's just more stress, when children in large classes just need to get it out of their system and relax at the end of a long day in school.

Before homework reared its ugly head, practising the violin was something she loved to do after school; now it's becoming another chore. I hope this turns around and will keep you informed, if you're interested!

Again, I agree. We have endless things sent home from my daugter's school saying - please hear your child read aloud every night and sign this piece of paper
My daughter loves reading and I read her a bedtime story every night and I fail to see what would be gained by sitting her down and forcing her to read aloud to me just for the sake of it...
I can't help thinking these measures are put in place to try and encourage the parents who don't bother to do anything with their children, but it will of course be those parents who still don't bother, despite all the paperwork sent home...

What I meant with the practise ethic -

I didn't mean that parents should force their children to practise (this is something I hate, kids being "forced" as I don't want to see miserable children), what "grinds my gears" is when parents let the children think it is ok to commit to something and then not practise.