I'd be interested in knowing what the justification is for the massive price leap between DipABRSM and LRSM performance - currently DipABRSM is £160 and LRSM £400 - more than double the price for an exam which is only a little longer and requires more or less the same examining methods.
Thanks!

Mine is short and sweet:

Are calculators allowed in exams?
Im not the best person at mental maths, and so was wondering if they are allowed in the higher grades for the changing of time signatures?

Hi -

I have a question about the online booking system for exams (I have asked this question direct to ABRSM, but not had a reply). Could ABRSM offer the option of opting out of certain dates during the exam period when one has unavoidable commitments?

I am an adult candidate, working as a university teacher, which means that once my teaching timetable is determined (usually four months or so in advance) there are then certain days when I just can't absent myself - without leaving 50 students high and dry! I also work 120 miles from home, which complicates matters.

I realise that the exam regs have an 'unavoidable commitments' clause that might allow me to ask for an alternative date, but I get the impression that once dates are set, staff are extremely reluctant to change them - and it must be easier for the Board to get a suitable date in the first place rather than have to change it later.

Since railways, airlines, hotels and others can all offer an online booking system, could the Board not do so? I would be very happy with a system that offered a 'first come, first served' system for dates - if one's possible dates were all taken at one's preferred centre, one could always opt to try another centre.

As it is, it feels like a bit of a gamble.

best
Nick Jones

My question is why broken chords are not pursued further into higher Grades than 4. I find they provide useful practice and wonder why they're not tested later. Best,
John

I would like to second this request. I teach lots of adults who have comittments which mean they are unavailable on certain days. Apart from being able to state 'not a Saturday', there is no other facility to put in specific days or dates that are not convenient.

A first-come-first-served booking system would allow candidates to immediately choose definitive and convenient date for their examination.

Yes, I totally agree with noodle's point. As a customer paying a not insignificant fee for an exam slot I think that consideration should be made of the fact that I have specified the best exam centre for my requirements - that includes:
Location. Am I able to get there? Not everyone has transport to get to a different exam centre other than the one chosen.
Quality of piano - type of piano - a lot of young/small children are daunted by a grand piano if they've never had the opportunity to play one before. I'd rather a familiar centre with a decent upright for them to take the exam on.
I realise if a chosen centre is not available at all an alternative will be needed but this should be information available at the time of the application & an opportunity given to select what is considered to be the next best centre. I do not like the shock of receiving an exam notification barely 2 weeks before the exam at a centre I did not choose & I cannot get to.
If the 2 specified choices of centre are unavailable would the idea of a phone call to ascertain the next choice of centre be too much to ask for? Or an email?

^ agree with noodle and APF - when I first applied for a jazz exam I phoned up the AB in advance and asked what would happen if the centre I specified did not have an exam session. I was told I would be phoned up - didn't happen. Got put into a session at a centre I had never been to before - I was just lucky that it was not too far away and I was able to get there.

Also specified a "last available date" for a classical exam and the same thing happened (after the same assurance!)... fortunately I had specified the date because I wanted the exam early in the session, not because I wasn't able to get there, but considering the centre had exams on the date I specified, AND I was assured that I would be consulted if the date wasn't possiblem, I was quite cross that 1) it wasn't adhered to despite it being perfectly possible for the centre in question, and 2) I wasn't asked if it was OK to have a later date.

What was the point in my asking at all in either of these cases, I wonder?? As well as the considerations of convenience and possibility and so on already mentioned, it only adds to the stress of the exam if these options which the board have offered and have assured will be adhered to are suddenly turned on their heads a few weeks before the exam is due to take place!

I have a couple of questions for the Chief Examiner:

Concerning Grade 4 Flute music for 2008-2013 - the A:2 piece (Largo and Presto by T Roseingrave) some of the ornaments are written out in one way, but the soloist on the CD plays them a different way. I find this confusing: which way should I stick with? Or doesn't it matter?

Also, the Examiner made a comment on my Grade 3 Flute (which I passed with 140 marks so I am not complaining!!!) that I need to aim to take "quieter breaths". I appreciate the point, but as I was playing only two foot away from her I felt this was a bit unfair, and also on the Grade 3 Flute CD you can hear the flautist taking nearly every breath. My teacher was surprised by the comment too because I do not take big gulping breaths and am already conscious of keeping breath in-take silent, but I think in the intimate confines of a small examination room where you can hear a pin drop, do you think examiners should consider acoustics?

I certainly think examiners should consider acoustics, Rhoda. Our centre uses a cavernous church and around 90% of my singing candidates used to get comments like "a little under the note today", or "some pitching problems today". I began to worry why it was that I could never hear these "pitching problems".
I was convinced that the sound bounced around the walls and dropped in pitch before it figuratively hit the examiners ear, due to the church being empty.
I was even more convinced that this was the case when I held a student concert in an equally large, high ceiling hall with an audience of 180 and acoustic tiles on the ceiling. 40 students sang and my own teacher (former Head of Vocal Studies at a London conservatoire) was there. She said that none of my students sang out of tune (and this was an equally stressful situation where one can lose around 20% of one's support through nerves.)
Since then I have had special visits in my teaching studio and not one candidate has had these remarks.
That said, the examiner can, of course, only comment on what they hear on the day. Maybe churches are not good examining spaces for singers.

Thanks Ann - glad I'm not the only one then!! I mean, a professional musician always checks out the acoustics, and most examination candidates do not have this privilege.

....anyhow, is this just a place to post our questions, or does someone actually reply to our questions from ABRSM (I'm sure Clara is very busy!). I am particularly concerned about my first question concerning ornaments. I am tempted to go with what is written in the Selected Pieces (even though it is totally different to what the soloist plays on the ABRSM CD) because it appears examiners will not be familiar with how the piece was played on the CD?

I just think it would be helpful if the soloists on the ABRSM CDs stuck to what was written!!!

There is generally a reply every couple of months but not necessarily of all issues raised.

As far as the CDs and ornaments go you are not meant to try to copy exactly the way things are played as that is only one person's interpretation. Sometimes I've listened to a piece on the CD and decided that it is definately NOT how I would play it. The important thing with ornaments is that you play them in a way that doesn't interrupt the flow of the music and particularly below grade 5 this may not be the way a professional would play them.

Thanks - very helpful. the thing is though I actually prefer the way the soloist plays them!! (starting with a note above, whereas it is written as an inverted ornament in the book) - just that I thought if I did it the way I prefer in this case would I get penalised for it.

Also in the Bach Rondeau the soloist slurs two staccato notes (in two places) and I much prefer this also, but it is not how it is written in the book, and I wondered do examiners penalise students for taking these sort of liberties. But just to be on the safe side, maybe it's best to learn the music exactly as written. One never can tell with examiners!

You shouldn't get penalised for it.

I'm not a flautist but with Bach there are some conventions as far as articulation goes and knowing them can give a more stylish performance. Do you have a teacher to advise you on this?

In the Baroque period, articulation, ornamentation and dynamics were left largely to the player. The Grade 4 book contains suggestions, but I tend to alter most of the suggested realisations of the dynamics and occasionally alter the articulation too. The examiner will not penalise you as long as what you do isn't sylistically inappropriate (such as flutter tonguing!).

Yes - she is all for doing my own thing (as long as they fit and are articulated). She says that in Baroque times it was left to the performer's discretion. But I guess seeing it written one way, then hearing it played a different way on the CD is for me a little confusing. I think for the sake of consistency, ABRSM should ensure their soloists play what is written in the ABRSM book.


Thanks....that pretty much re-inforces what my teacher says.

I wonder how younger candidates cope though? They hear one thing on the CD and a different thing is w ritten in the music. I don't think children always have the musical concepts to take that kind of thing on board. But maybe I'm wrong.

Hopefully most of them have the guidance of a good teacher rather than try to learn their pieces by copying the CD.
The CDs are good if you want to listen to choose a piece to learn and maybe to help to sort out tricky rhythmic passages during the learning process (it can help to internalise it if you listen) but not for using to copy a performance. You might get some performance ideas from them and it can be good once you've leared a piece and got your own ideas to listen with your teacher and discuss which things you might like to include as part of your own performance. I've heard pieces played on the exam CDs played in ways I would definitely NOT play them.

Yes that's true - I always try to make the piece "my own" and my teacher encourages this too. I like the CDs mainly to help me develop a beautiful tone: to hear the pieces played by top professionals really gives me a bench mark to aim for and it has helped me enormously to improve my tone and I was so pleased on my Grade 3 Notes the examiner wrote "A beautiful tone". I don't think I could have achieved it without listening to the beautiful playing of the professionals on the CD as they are inspiring!!!

This is a question(s) about diplomas, pre-requisites and substitutions.

It is my understanding the the DipABRSM has a pre-requisite of Grade 8 and the LRSM has a pre-requisite of DipABRSM.

Now LRSM is a Level 6 qualification and has a pre-requisite of a level 4 qualification (DipABRSM) so shouldn't the ATCL be an acceptable substitution as a level 4 qualification equivalent to the DipABRSM as opposed to the LTCL which is a level 6.

Similarly at FRSM, my reading of the Trinity syllabus is that they will accept the LRSM as a substitute for LTCL, but it doesn't appear to work the other way round.

The other option to an alternative qualification is 'appropriate professional experience' some examples might be useful, as to what might be considered appropriate. At DipABRSM level, I would have thought this would be quite limited (equivalent to end of first year undergraduate).

Thank you.

An interesting development is the ALCM now being accredited as a level 5 qualification - would it not be reasonable for the Associated Board to consider this as a pre-requisite for LRSM? Just a thought!

My question about having scots traditional flute exams has still not been answered!!!

I know RSAMD have scots trad exams for fiddle, accordian and clarsach - but flute is as much a trad instrument as these - especially simple system.

Hi,
I'm considering sitting the grade 5 music theory exam in November.... however, i'm pregnant and by that time will be very pregnant indeed and so i'd like to know if it was be possible to arrange to have 1, possibly 2 toilet breaks during the exam as this will impact greatly on whether I decide to enter.
Thanks.

I'd like to have more stastistics on examination results. For instance, how many candidates took grade 3 piano and which pieces they played and what were the results. Obviously there is no need to identify candidates and presumably ABRSM has this information on a database, given that that candidates can access it for their own results.

Obviously you would need to get someone from your IT department to set up a series of queries and reports on the data but that shouldn't take long and once they are set, they shouldn't require any further maintenance.

Many thanks.

Similar to what I asked for months ago Except I just suggested more info on the grades and number of Pass, Merit and Distinctions for each insturment. Hope you get an appropriate answer.

That's an interesting point, David. I notice the the ICMA Board (not one I know much about nor one which I've ever used) state that they are flexible enough to arrange exams in the evenings and also on Sundays.
Is this a process which might be of benefit to the ABRSM and its prospective candidates?

Why is it necessary to use arrangements in the new piano syllabus?
I can see the point of using arrangements for instruments with less repertoire, but surely there is so much music for piano that is is simply not necessary


and also, now that grade 1 and 2 piano sight-reading have been simplified - the jump to grade 3 is worse than ever - did no-one consider this?

Just a quickie


Where's the singing syllabus? Why haven't you put it up after all the trailing and the podcast and everything?

What is the point of a syllabus with over a thousand songs on it if we can't get to see it to find music and start preparing pupils to use it?

I agree. Some of us want to stick by the motto we were taught as a guide and "Be Prepared" for next term. So we can start set out sensible schemes of work for our pupils who are exam candidates.

Does the board have any plans to bring their popular teaching seminars or courses (like CTABRSM) to Ireland? If the courses ran in either Dublin or Belfast and were well advertised I would imagine they would get a good reception.

The cost of travel makes taking these courses already prohibitively expensive and the dates, while understandably designed to suit the UK school system/bank holidays etc, don't always coincide with holidays in the ROI.

Does the board plan to address this situation?

Hello,

I'm interested to know how the examiner chooses which scales/arpeggios to ask for in an exam.

Thank you for providing this service. It's great to have the opportunity to hear the answers directly rather than through hearsay or simply one person's idea of what the answer might be!

Have just been checking through the scale requirements for piano grades in order to update my teaching material. In Grade 2 E major has been taken out of the scales in similar motion, but you are still required to do it in contrary motion, so it has to be learned anyway. What is the thinking behind this? Is E major considered to be too difficult to do in similar motion for a Grade 2 student, but not too difficult to do in contrary motion?

I would like to third...fourth this.
I don't think you should have to do scales that you have done for a lower grade already because, even if you skipped a grade, surely you would be playing at a higher standard than those scales so would be able to play them easily?
After doing grade six piano practice every day (and, admittedley, playing every scale in the syllabus each practice), I would come away with aching fingers and still only got sixteen for scales in the exam. And that's just grade six. Grade seven will be murder, and grade eight... well it's unthinkable. Honestly.


Why does the amount of time exam results take to arrive differ so much?
My most recent results came in just over 2 weeks. My sister took her grade 2 clarinet 2 weeks after me and is still waiting. Actually I've just looked at the calendar and it's been exactly a MONTH. What is the reason for this? Surely it doesn't take a month to print a certificate, put it in an envelope and post it? And it should take even less time for a fail. Her teacher isn't on holiday so she would have phoned if it had come.
I would really like to know what happens between the exam and the results and why it takes so long. Sometimes.

We haven't had any questions answered since February, so I would firstly like to ask the Chief Examiner what she has been up to That's actually a serious question, I know the CE's job isn't to sit around answer questions all day long, so...what does the CE do, what is a 'typical' day like [as if any of us have 'typical' days!] and that sort of thing...

As a second question, I'd like to know what happens to the questions that aren't answered, has their chance at an answer gone, or is there a chance they'll get answered in a later response, or should the person ask again and hope that persistence pays off.


I noticed this thread/forum made it in to the recent Annual Report...I hope now it has been 'seen' to exist, it doesn't get forgotten about.

Beats me. There is not much to it. It gets difficult if you try to memorize 50-100 scales independently by rote. But if you find the patterns it is not hard.

Consider MAJOR scales. Tone-Tone-Semitone-Tone-Tone-Tone-Semitone.
That takes care of finding the notes. What about fingering. We'll just look at the conventional fingerings - and not the ultra-efficient alternative fingerings that you need for really fast passages. Let us look at the RH.

If it starts on a White key, then 1231234 etc. and the reverse on the way down - except F (1234123)
If it starts on a black key, start with the 2nd finger, and turn the thumb under when you go from a Black to a White key.

A very similar analysis will reveal the pattern in the LH fingering.

Then you can analyze MINOR scales in the same way.



This is correct, but the usual pre-requisite for taking a Diploma, and as Grade 8 requires rather a lot of scales

Helpful for a pianist perhaps, but not for, say, clarinet, where each scale has different combinations of alternative fingerings just to be able to play legato, and the intervals are not so easily visible (sometimes counter intuitive!). I don't see the problem with having a scale book to play from - then it means you're associating all these notes with the way they look on the page, aiding sightreading. It would still require the same technical fluency, just without the current demands on memory.

Required Minimum Piano Height

I have read and heard from a number of teachers, students, and retailers, that the ABRSM requests for pianos of at least 121 cm during exams.

As a result, I have seen many shops promoting "exam model pianos" e.g. Yamaha U1, Kawai K3 etc. Many chinese brands also use the same tagline to sell pianos of 121 cm and above.

I wonder how important it is to have a piano of 121 cm and above, in order to be "ABRSM-compliant". I tried looking on the ABRSM website, but could not find related information. I would like to go for a teaching diploma and eventually teach in future, and hope to make sure that I am not having a piano that is not compliant.

Dear all,

Just to let you know, a new set of answers will be available soon - apologies for the wait!

We are currently considering some interesting options for the future of 'Ask the Chief Examiner' and there will be more news on this in Autumn of this year.

Thanks,

Ed

That's good to know. Thank you.

With the way that technology is, a few paragraphs in the Libretto every few months wasn't so great. We know that answering questions and helping teachers, candidates and parents is only a part of the Chief Examiner's job. I wasn't expecting the CE to answer questions on this forum every week, but getting involved on a monthly basis or so would be excellent.

Thanks for the answers, but since my - and others'! - question wasn't answered, I'd like to repeat it.

Could the ABRSM not offer the option of specifying dates or days that one simply cannot make when booking exam entries online? This would remove a lot of uncertainty for adult entrants...

best
Nick

I would also like to request an explanation as to why so many scales must be memorised. I find it hard to emeorise so many.

If a person is in for grade 6 then grade 5 scales should not be asked. Only grade 6 ones. This would make memorising scales manageable. At the moment it is very hard to remember 30+ scales!

Also in the aural section why does a someone learning violin, like myself, have to sing back notes played on a piano? I simply do not see the point in it. I am not doing a singing exam after all.

The only aural part I get is the describing the extract played by the examiner. The rest of the aural seems pointless to me.

I don't see a problem with having to memorise so many scales, because most of the scales are in a general pattern. The only difficulty is learning the pattern, but once learnt, scales become much easier.
As for repeating scales from previous grades, i think this is very good too. scales aren't just for exams, they are used ALL the time, and playing will become a lot easier if you can play scales. They are also very good for coodination and finger strength, and improve your playing a lot.

I think the aural is great. I'm not overly keen on singing to the examiner, but the aural tests are designed to develop your skills as musician, and are there to test your musicianship skills, and are very helpful. There is nothing to worry about when it comes to singing. The examiner isn't there to asess your singing skill, but to test you musical awareness, so as long as your are roughly in tune, the examiner doesn't care. You will probably never meet the examiner again, as they are usually from different areas, so you wont bump into them in the high street, so just go for it, and have some confidence!

Jacob.

Hi,

Can anynoe tell me what grading level Grieg's "Piano Concerto in A Minor" (for the solo pianist) would be consisdered at?

Also, the same for Liszt's "La Campanella".

I don't have lessons, and have not had any exams other than when I was a kid - (now 34) so I just play for my own amusement but I try to keep motivated so I like to take on decent pieces.

For example, Gnossienne no 1 is a simple piece and the moody expression I find easy to create with it, it took me a few hours to learn this piece so it didn't really fulfill my need for a meaty piece. As I understand it, this is a grade 6/7 piece..?

Anyhow, someone will be able to clarify the above pieces for me.

Ta.
Mart.

Hi pianoman101 - I think you've picked the wrong place to ask this question - this is a thread for asking questions about examinations to the Chief Examiner. You may want to find your way to viva piano and try again

I don't think you should have to do scales that you have done for a lower grade already because, even if you skipped a grade, surely you would be playing at a higher standard than those scales so would be able to play them easily?

sorry - a late reply to a previous question - not necessarily. I can cite numerous examples of higher grade students who 've transferred to me having forgotten how to play G major consistently.

I agree. I had not done g major 2 octave arpegio in ages and my teahcer asked or me to play it as the piece was in the g major key.

I had to try 4 times before I got it right. That was when I was grade 6 standard!

Are there in existence a set of specimin figured bass tests for harpsichordists? If not, what sort of complexity/standard is expected at each grade?

Many thanks!

Peter

Are there any plans to offer the jazz exams in other countries (e.g. Italy!)?

Are there any plans to extend online registration for exams to other countries (registration seems a little problematic here)?

Thanks.

Your argument would be stronger if you'd scored the maximum for scales and arpeggios

Further to the comment I left in the teachers' forum, are there plans from the ABRSM to publish which week(s) each of the test centres are open - I think a lot of us would find this information useful.

Could we sometime, somewhere - either on line or in Libretto - have some news of what goes on in France?
I have been working away down here since around 1996, using the ABRSM syllabus. My French pupils think it's great and my English pupils are relieved to find they can carry on with what they started in England.

Because of the rather heavy handed French system of musical education I daresay we in France are only a drop in the ABRSM ocean. But it would be nice to have our existence acknowledged just now and again. I get a bit dispirited reading about what goes on in Hong Kong and never knowing what goes on in Spain, Germany and other European countries.

Are there any plans for AB publications like "These Music Exams" to be translated into French?

I was wondering what steps one should take to become and ABRSM examiner? What qualifications are needed and (I hope you don't mind me asking) what are the salary ranges?