just wondering how long it took any of you to get to Grade 5 standard on the piano - I want to be that standard for Uni entry next September and I have just started to learn properly - (tho I do know my way around basic chords etc).

i will be self taught/practising roughly an hour a day - have i got a hope!?

anyone got experiences of prodigious levels of learning?!
thanks

Welcome to the forums deadair. Don't try to do it yourself. Find a teacher who will help you to develop a decent technique from the start. It is so very hard to break bad habits once they are formed. Explain your goals and find someone who will work with you to achieve them. Good luck.

Good advice there.

Just to answer your question, though. I started lessons in July 2002, took Grade 1 in April 2003 and Grade 5 in Nov/Dec 2004. You should manage it, but pace yourself, and get a teacher to help you.

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice - got a stumbling block with regards finding a tutor as very few of them work for £0 per hour!! Will definitely consider redistributing my funds to consider getting a few preparatory lessons in.

If you can't find/afford a teacher at the moment, start working on the pieces (get one of the CD's to listen to..expensive but cheaper than a tutor!) They will give you an idea of what the pieces sound like when at exam standard. BUT!! Definitley try to find a tutor at least a term before you sit the exam. This will help iron out any of the bad habits you may not realise you have unless told otherwise.

Don't forget scales and sight reading exercises as well..

When you have chosen your pieces, post them on here, then people can advise you on how to play them.

No teacher would give free lessons of course but some might like to trade some oven cleaning, dog walking or ironing for a lesson from time to time. Seek and ye may well find. It is worth a try.

Yes, I forgot about bartering!! One of my students mums is a hairdresser so she cuts my hair in exchange for her daughters lesson!

What about any of your mates? Do any of them have piano lessons and are able to pass on tips? You may be able to do something in exchange.

As I understand it the question was to want to be grade 5 standard for university entry; this is by far a different thing from having passed the grade 5 exam (although it may be the case that the exam is required). I'm sure you're well aware that being able to play 3 grade 5 pieces, is quite some difference from being grade 5 standard. The best way to go about becoming the appropriate standard would be to work gradually through pieces of increasing difficulty; rather than to learn these three pieces: there's no guarantee that one would make it to grade 5 standard, but certainly one would be of a much higher real standard than one would be if one simply learnt 3 grade 5 pieces, and have much more useful repertoire and learning under one's belt. Having passed the exam doesn't really necessarily imply one is really of that standard. Also taking the three pieces by rote route will leave one in a very weak position when it comes to sightreading, and the ability to actually learn pieces more efficiently.

hi!

this probably doesnt help your matter, but i started piano when i was 7 and it took me 5/6 years untill i did my grade 5 but that included changing teacher in between!

I'm sure you didn't intend your comments to be patronising, but yes, I am well aware of all the points you have made above. My students have various pieces which I encourage them to play, which are above the grade standard they are working towards. (I.e. if they are sitting for grade 1, we also work on pieces above that- to possibly Gde 3).

I (and it would seem, petrat too) based my reply on the first half of deadair's question..about how long it took to achieve grade 5. Whether or not he (?) needs the grade for Uni entry is irrelevent (IMO) if he is not taught by a good tutor as soon as he can possibly afford one. Getting a tutor is vital for learning technique, and I for one would not enter a student for exams if their technique was wrong..whether or not they had set themselves a target date to achieve anything. In the meantime, listening to CD's gives him an idea of what standards need to be met. There is nothing worse than learning pieces by rote, and that is not what I was intending for deadair to do.

Perhaps deadair wouldn't mind clarifying for us...

^ this could be taken to suggest rote learning - by the sounds of it it's not what you meant, but with a topic of "0 to grade 5" and then this post it sort of sounded that way to me too, I'm afraid. Sorry. So it's probably just as well it was cleared up.

I'm sorry, but how?? When I want to learn a new piece, I will listen to recordings of it, to get a feel for how it sounds- dynamics, tempo etc. etc., and then learn to play it bearing what I've heard in mind.

What's the difference between me doing that with a Chopin Nocturne (for example) and a student listening to recordings of exam pieces to get a feel for them?

I've clearly said"...get one of the CDs to listen to" not to rote learn from....


"Sorry, deadair"

Because deadair is (to use his/her own words) at "grade 0... I have just started to learn properly - (tho I do know my way around basic chords etc)."

You put "start working on the pieces" - maybe you didn't mean grade 5 pieces, but that's how it came across - and get one of the CDs ("cheaper than a tutor"). From what you have said, it ISN'T how you intended it, but it came across to me (and I guess to AP too?) that you were perhaps suggesting deadair get the grade 5 pieces and start learning them with reference to the CD. If someone is "grade 0, knows basic chords" then I'd call that rote learning.

Presumably if you were a learning a Chopin Nocturne you would be doing it because it's about the right level for you to play with some work, and so you're listening to the CD to get the feel etc. IMO someone who is grade 0 is likely NOT at that level just yet with regards to G5 pieces.... they could be soon if they are prepared to work hard (which deadair is, from his/her post), but surely it's too early to be actually looking at G5 pieces. Again, I'm not saying that's what you intended, because you've said that's not the case - but it came out sounding like that.

I am sorry to have misunderstood you but maybe now you can see why, and certainly I think it's easy enough to misunderstand that it's better that it has been cleared up.

me too

Yes, that's how I interpreted it too, sorry if it's not what you meant. Given that two of us have misinterpreted it this way it's worth clarifying this even if it's not what you meant so it doesn't cause deadair any problems .

One other point for the original poster: don't get too disheartened with any CDs you do get. It's good to aim for that standard but they are how a concert pianist plays the pieces, so not the minimum standard for the exam .

Sarah summed up well what I was thinking though .

OK..let me start again....

1. I would never advise anyone at Grade 0 to even think about grade 5 pieces. Deadair..I apologise if this is how it came across. I advise you to start at GRADE 1!!! Or even the prep test...

2. I would never advise anyone at Grade 0 to attempt a Chopin Nocturne. I would advise listening to GRADE 1 CD's to get a FEEL of the pieces...nothing more. After all, isn't that what they are produced for??

3. My biggest advice and one I have stressed from my first post, is for you to get a good tutor. ASAP!!!!

4. I'm off to the cafe for a very large alcoholic beverage...please feel free to join me...

DC, I really really didn't think you were suggesting that!! honest guv'! (goes to show, if that's how it came out, that we can all be misunderstood!!! )

Anyway, good luck, deadair!

I remain cheerfully misunderstood in my own little world!! I know what I mean even if nobody else does!!!

Please, deadair, wherever you are, come back and post on here again!! I hope this hasn't put you off!!!

Now we've sorted that out....

It took me two years to get to grade 5. The biggest struggle was between grades 4 and 5, partly because they upped the ante and partly because I didn't have as much time to practice. I still find sight-reading a 'challenge' and would strongly advise you to take your time, as others have.

A grade 8 saxophonist who taught at our local music school passed her one and only piano exam - grade 8 (just) - in 6 months - but she'll be the first to say that it doesn't really mean anything (she took it as a laugh..... )

Don't worry Daisy I understand you

There are always the RIGHT way to do things but sometimes that route isn't always open for one reason and another. I don't think anyone would jump into practising G5 pieces straight off and if they did it wouldn't take them long to work out that it's the wrong thing to do. Nothing wrong with listening ot the standard that you are aiming for though.

A fly in the ointment here!

I wouldn't advise using recordings as a learning tool whilst still in the process of working out notes and timing from the score. It's fine (and very useful) when you get to the stage of polishing, but if you listen too much to recording of pieces which are as yet unfamiliar, it might make you lazy about actually working things out yourself from the page - and you'll be no more likely to get to grips with the next piece of music that comes along when you try to learn it from the score alone! If you need the cd to tell you 'how it goes', then the piece is probably too hard, and you're not really 'at that standard' yet. Obviously a recording will tell you whether or not you actually like the piece enough to want to play it, but I wouldn't return to 'using' the cd again till it's more or less 'learnt'. Not if you actually want to 'learn' from the whole experience, rather than just play the piece as a one-off.

Hey!

I have to say that I really appreciate everyones input on this - when I asked the question I was hoping to get some inspiration and maybe judge from the experiences of others whether the goal (0 to Grade 5) that I set was too high. Some really good advice there - so thank you all!

DaisyChain dont worry you haven't scared me off -yet!!

Thank you deadair!!!

**What do you mean...yet???!**

Good luck, anyway xx

My youngest more or less uses the CD's the way you describe. It's rare that she would listen to pieces before she plays them and usually if she's making the decision on what to play does it by looking at the music first. Half the fun is practising them and then seeing how far out you are from the Cd. Usually it's phrasing in the odd bar and a matter of playing a bit slowe (the CD is usualy faster). I totally agree that there is no point in trying to play to the CD if you haven't worked with the music first.

If my daughter were to listen to the G8 CD's for any of her instruments, not that it's likely at the moment, I would think she would do it in the same ways as she would listen to any piece of Music.

I'm thinking particularly of a pupil I have who always rushes out to buy the cd of whatever she's playing. (She's at Grade 5 now.) She plays very musically, and her phrasing and expresion are great, but she's vey poor at working out timing without hearing it first - and I blame the cds!

That's not really a good thing to do even I can see that. Generally we do buy the CD's early but they often don't get properly used regularly until the polishing up time in the run up to the exam. I suppose we've always seen them as n accompaniment aid as daughter doesn't practice with Piano regularly they are useful for that purpose. Even then it's only an idea as the pianist on the day may well interperate it slightly differently.

The only exception to the above are the Jazz CD's which get used early on. Partly because the Head even at G5 for Flute is not as difficult as the Classical G5, then they are not testing the same skill so that's to be expected. Also it's more important to use the Cd to get the improvisation right, even then it's a good idea to be familiar with the written pieces as you end up thinking about too much all at the same time. I stress these opinions are only from my experiences with my own child and not as any type of authority. I think it's common sense really to a degree.

I think it is possible, but of course it'd depend on how quickly you learn etc....

I did grade 0-4 in a year, and have now been playing for almost 18 months and have just bugan working towards grade 6...

I practise for an hour or two a day, so if you're anything like me then yes that's possible!! And I was pretty much a beginner when I first had lessons, so there's no reason I can think of that says you won't make it!

Good luck!

Laura

Thanks Laura - very impressive doing 0 - Grade 4 in a year! Here's hoping I can manage it myself!

I think everyone agrees that a good teacher is needed above all else, to point you in the right direction from the start and stop any bad habits creaping in. Anyone who studies piano as a second instrument should move at a swift pace probably up until grade 5 standard approx. then it appears things seem to get a little more difficult. My daughter started nearly 2 years ago at the age of 10. Having never played piano at all, primarily violin being her first study, took grade 2 after 6 months attaining a distinction. She is now preparing to take her grade 5 as mentioned 2 years on. I feel if she had gone any faster, she would not have been able to experience enough styles of music eg. jazz, blues, ragtime, classical etc. to have been the good player that she is. I think anything rushed is cheating yourself. Nothing can replace the experience of having played a rich variety and plenty of it over a good many years!

.......5 seconds?...........

Hey
This possibly isn't much help as a lot of great advice has already been given
I got to grade 5 standard after about 2 years of playing. I taught myself to about grade 3 then got a teacher. Being honest I think you have to find yourself a teacher or a person that plays piano to a good standard. I managed to get into alot of bad habits and it took a long time to undo them which is why I wished I had got a teacher earlier.
It took alot of practice and sheer determination to get there as i'm sure it did with many people. But if you are going to teach yourself, I think it would be a good idea to get some books on scales and arppegios (I never taught myself them and neither did my teacher and boy am I having to pay for it now lol) and above all things is to persevere with it and practise. I do know a couple of great pianists who taught themselves but it doesn't always suit everyone.
If you are determined i'm sure you will do well and reach your targets.
Good luck PSL x