I know this has been discussed before, but I'm not sure where we stand at all on this. Would the people running a youth orchestra (Treasurer, Librarian and so on) need a CRB check, although most of us are under 18 anyhow? And does the conductor need a seperate CRB check for this orchestra, given that he already works in schools so presumably has one there?
Any help much appreciated, as you might be able to tell we are just slightly disorganised!
Thanks
Rosemary.

It's up to each organisation to decide whether to accept CRB's from other organisations. I have a CRB for scouts and have just been given a form for my daughter's gym (as you're not supposed to go on the gym floor without one) and both of those organisations won't accept a CRB from another organisation (you can't prove continuity from another organisation). I also have one for school.... as I am a peri in school and have an old one from classroom teaching. I don't have to have one for Governors... as my peri one counts!!! I have one for a camp I run, but they would accept one from another organisation if I could get someone from that organistaion to vouch for me. My church accepts my other CRB's...
So I imagine the committee of your orchestra has to sit down to decide whether you are going to ask for CRB's and from whom. You can get them if you are above 16. We ask all our tent leaders at the camp I help from aged 16 to 30ish) to get them.
They cost money too... and won't stop abuse neceaasrily. It's about doing everything you can to protect yourselves from accusations and maybe others from abuse. Apparently, knowing you have to apply for a CRB stops some abusers applying for a post.

Now, where I live, there is a town concert band, with teenagers and adults in... and one adult member of the band was imprisioned for paedophila....

Good luck in deciding what you are going to do....

Do CRB checks still have to be paid for if the organisation is a charity, like Brownies, church clubs and so on?

Dunno.. I think so... I was discussing this at gym when yet another CRB form was given to me and the club secretary thought it was about £5.... I think other organisations pay about £15!!!

Yes, but the organisation will pay the fee.

Umm... the gym letter I have here says it's £5 for volunteers and £41 for paid coaches....

Maybe that's what the Gym association pays.....

A CRB generally costs £41, which, if you have to stump up for each CRB yourself (if the organisation themselves won't pay) gets very expensive, not to mention terribly confusing for those who have a dozen or more of the things to cover every single activity or place they are involved with. Surely, with modern technology there has to be a more efficient way of verifying an existing CRB instead of cutting down yet another tree and pumping out a few more greenhouse gases producing further bits of paper.

They are also only valid for 3 years - and only transferable for 6 months if other organisations accept an exisiting CRB from another body.

Quite frankly, it's a licence to print money and yet another way of Civil Servants attempting to justify their existance. Many of the checks that are supposed to be done, don't always get done. We hear about the odd one in the news from time to time, but I wonder just how many more out there have the sort of criminal record that should preclude them from the job they do, but their background checks haven't been completed properly.

The last I heard there was a huge backlog of the things, although while some people receive their's in a couple of weeks, others can take months. At one time CRBs were processed by the Passport Office, now it's some other office and it doesn't work as efficiently (but that's no surprise when it comes to government officials). Talking of which, I watched a rather 'irreverant' TV programme this evening that asked if it should be made a prosecutable offence for politicians to lie to the public...........

What we need to know is who checks the checkers!

But do we need them? Thats what I'm getting at... We're in a bit of a mess at the moment, so we are attempting to keep our heads above water at the moment. If we don't get them, will some official turn round and fine us or something because the conductor hasn't had a CRB check and we havn't accepted one from another organisation. What about the committee members? I really don't know!

I agree that its a useless bit of paperwork, but the slightest thing needs to be checked - we can't afford not to sort it out!

Is your orchestra part of another organisation? Is it stand alone? Who organises it?
If your committee decides to accept the conductor's other CRB, get it photocopied and file it.
Maybe asking a Citizen's Advice Bureau might help?

I think you should probably make sure parents of under 18's understand that there adult members of the orchestra who may be not CRB checked. I know it sounds ridiculous but it may cover you... then the parents decide!!!

Ask the CAB....

We're a youth orchestra, and it does stand alone. The comittee run it, but as the orchestra has only been running a year we are a bit clueless! The youngest is about 14 I think. I'll look into the Citizens Advice Bureau, thanks

I think last time we had this discussion we concluded CRB is generally required for anyone in some position of authority of under 18s ie positions that anyone of the wrong mind could abuse at childrens' expense. How you establish such "in authority" personnel could be the grey area, though many do them in the slightest doubt, as things are these days. For instance teachers and other staff in school certainly do need CRBed, but not pupils as they are equal. In a music group usually the conductor and any tutors need CRB clearance, but not adult members. Much to my surprise, 1st year university students a few weeks off their 18th birthday also count as 'children' so lecturers need clearence. Splitting hairs, but it's how tight these things are now.

The Brass Band Federation have something on child protection so may be worth a look. I hope you do sort this out soon enough.

Thanks Neil. I hate grey areas!! We'll have to have a discussion methinks... Would be rather useful if the CRB people published a definition of 'In Authority' but that would be too useful.

Why not have a look at the website: www.crb.gov.uk

If you are responsible for young people under the age of 18, my advice is to get one. I just had mine renewed and it took four weeks.

The CRB does not only refer to child abuse but to anyone who may have had links that may give cause for concern in relation to children. Someone I know just had theirs returned with information "added" at the bottom saying a close relative who may come to their address was mentally unstable and should not be around children. This has made their home address unsuitable for home teaching but they can still go to teach at students homes or of course in schools. They would now need another CRB for the School/Organisation where they will work.

I don't really understand that. It sounds like said person would not be in charge of children, or in a position to abuse anyone. Someone of such disposition should probably be kept in prison/hospital if deemed that unsafe. What about a neighbour to the teacher who is unstable/on drugs or so and so, and may be hovering around as people go in and out? Where do you draw the line?

I've got a better idea; we'll barracade children's parks and demand a CRB certificate before letting adults through, same with streets with young children, streets on the school runs, swimming pools, shops, child friendly restaurants, trains, buses. Of course I'm joking, but what sort of world are we creating?

In answer to Rosemary's question, if anyone is in doubt it can do no harm to get them done, except some cost. It would probably take an incident with under 18s to get someone in trouble (maybe through no fault of the person). No idea what sanctions would be involved.

Here is the bfbb policy if it's any help.

Yes, money is the problem... Thanks for that link Neil - I looked on the CRB website but it was rather unhelpful! I doubt we will have any trouble, but we want to make sure we are a legal organisation that is somewhat organised Thanks for all your help!

OK I will spell it out.

This person - a woman - has a son who had a complete mental breakdown, he was living with her and physically attacked her. He was institutionalised & medicated and is now in a half way home. This information was apended to her CRB because of the possibility that he may turn up at the family home and create a disturbance - Ok be violent again & yes, he had done so on one occasion after he absconded from the institution he was in, requiring the police to remove him from her premises. So she doesnt use the family home for teaching any more.

This was all a great revelation to me (and to her) as I was unaware of these notes that could be added to the bottom of CRB checks. I am told this is because the police & social services have a legal duty to pass this information on.

As to neighbours - I really have absolutely no idea. I know I dont allow any neghbours to come in my house during teaching and if any were persistently hanging around watching the students go in and out believe me I would take it further.

I was simply trying to say that despite some saying CRBs are a waste of time, I do believe its better than nothng.