I have a relatively new pupil aged six going on seven. She's very tiny and I was told from the start that she suffers from extreme shyness, so would it be OK if one of her parents sat in on the lesson?

I said yes it would be OK, at least for a while until she got used to me. Lessons began, and the mother sat in a chair unobtrusively and even nodded off on one occasion. I didn't find her presence at all obtrusive and even started to feel I didn't mind parents sitting in on lessons after all.

The child was certainly very shy, and played as quietly as she spoke - I had difficulty hearing either her voice or her violin in the early stages, but as time went on she became more and more confident and chatty in lessons, and her violin playing became more and more audible. She's been making good progress - her only problem being a lack of confidence when things start to get a bit harder, as they inevitably do at various stages with the violin. But she's a little perfectionist and has coped very well with everything I've asked her to do and practise.

Then - after a few weeks, the mother stopped bringing her and the father took over, sitting in the same chair as the mother used to, but instead of nodding off or reading, seems to have decided to take a much more active role.

So this is what happens: he follows everything closely, but instead of taking notes, which I wouldn't mind at all, interjects from time to time with remarks like:

'she's been memorising that piece you told her to memorise, haven't you, ********? And she's nearly learnt it, haven't you, *********? Are you going to play it for Violinia now?' My blood pressure starts to rise but I can hardly tell him off in front of his little daughter, can I?

In other words, he's pretty much on my back the whole time, watching me like a hawk, telling me what she's practised and what she hasn't, and reminding me to listen to this piece and that piece when I was going to do that anyway but at a later part of the lesson!!!

On one occasion he even brought one of his other children in without explanation or apology. This child immediately went and sat down in the place where he knows very well I normally sit or stand, and then he didn't tell the other child to move, leaving me to do it!!! The other child then kept interrupting the lesson with comments and questions, which I found extremely annoying and intrusive but had to deal with calmly and pleasantly. It's quite a small teaching room and I found the whole thing incredibly claustrophobic and irritating when all I want to do is teach his daughter in uniterrupted peace and quiet.

And yes I know what you're all thinking: 'just deal with it, woman! Tell the father if he comes into lessons he has to stay completely quiet and not interrupt AT ALL.' or: 'ask the daughter if she's like to start having lessons on her own now?'or: 'have a quiet word with the mother about it.'

Yes I've thought about all of these but none of them seem possible without causing upset and I don't want to cause upset! Particularly if the daughter's there! And I never get to see him on his own! And I don't want to bring up this sensitive subject by phone or email - potentially far more upsetting!

The problem is - confusingly - I also (through gritted teeth, admittedly) 'get on quite well' with this dad - he's friendly and chatty and I respond in kind, as you do - so to suddenly tell him I don't want him there, or he has to shut up completely during lessons, is going to come across as inexplicably hostile. And yes, I know Ishould have said something the first time he did it, but I was so taken aback I didn't react - also because his super-sensitive daughter was right there...

Any advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated. I'm now dreading Saturday mornings because of this and have begin to deeply resent this man coming into my house at all, if the truth be known. The mother was lovely and until I met the dad I wondered why the child was so painfully shy - now I'm beginning to think this very overbearing dad might have a lot to do with it.

HELP!!!

I think that you will have to tell him at the start of the next lesson that you are quite happy for one parent to attend lessons with the child but that it will be far more helpful if he sits in silence listening. Tell him that you need to have the full concentration of your pupil and that it will be difficult for her if she has to listen to both the teacher and the parent during the lesson. Make light of it and just say "Sorry but that's my rule!" or some such remark. If another child comes along tell him or her to sit very quietly too.

Yes that's probably a good way forward - and thanks - but I have a horrible feeling that even if he sits there quietly, there'll be something undermining and overbearing about his very presence in the room.

For the record, I taught four complete beginners a couple of weeks ago in a classroom while another teacher sat in a different part of the room doing something or other. I could tell she was half-listening because she laughed at something funny that was said, but I felt totally confident and happy for her to be there, because there was nothing undermining about her presence. This guy is totally different because he listens carefully to everything but in an overbearing way and I just can't stand it.

I might even ask the little girl today whether she'd like to start having lessons on her own - it's been about two months after all.

I also had one child whose mother sat in on lessons initially for the first few weeks. After the summer holidays I quietly said to her that I don't normally have parents in the teaching room and maybe little *** would be OK on her own now. The mother sits in my living room which I don't really mind as she walks here rather than drives and I can't ask her to sit out on the garden wall.

The only thing that bugged me once was when she asked did I have any magazines for her to read. What am I, a doctor's surgery?

If you want to be a bit more diplomatic, you could perhaps wait until the week before the end of the month or the half-term holidays (if you don't teach through them). Then you could just say that now that the child is used to you and since she is progressing so well, you will be switching to your normal practise and be asking the parents not to sit in on the lessons. I wouldn't ask the child what she wants as this will be putting her in an impossible situation; she will probably want to please both you and her parents and won't know what to say.

Speaking as a former very shy child myself and as the mother of two shy daughters, I think you will probably find the child is slightly more communicative when she is by herself. When my elder daughter started the cello at six and a half her cello teacher insisted I sit in so that I would know how to help her at home. In the third lesson I couldn't stay because I had her younger sister with me (who I knew wouldn't sit still) and after the lesson the teacher said that actually my daughter was more relaxed and spoke more when I wasn't there and that she would just ask me in a few minutes before the end if she had things she wanted to explain.

My younger daughter is not only shy but also a selective mute which means she doesn't speak at all to people outside the family. I have always refused to sit in on her piano lessons. I do go in with her at the beginning to tell the teacher how the week's work has gone (my daughter whispers in my ear what she wants me to say) and I also come in a few minutes before the end so that the teacher can tell me what they have done and what she wants my daughter to work on.

Luckily you have a 'get out' clause...you stipulated at the beginning that you teach pupils on their own. If the father is making you feel uncomfortable, then you can 'honour' the agreement you made with the mother and mention that the daughter appears more confident now and maybe you should take her by herself from now on? After all, it's not as though the father will be 'abandoning' her!

Good luck - there's no 'polite' way of doing it - I think you'll just have to grit your teeth and come out with it! If this causes upset, then maybe the parents should re-think whether she is ready for lessons yet. Sorry this sounds really harsh but kids can't be wrapped up in cotton wool forever.....

Yes, good luck. But you obviously can't go on like this. I'm sure if you tell the parents that you think their daughter would now benefit from having her lessons alone with you, they will understand. I've got some young students who had their parents sitting in on the lesson every week (although none of them were at all intrusive) and decided after a while that they wanted to come in alone, and I think the parents could see that the children were much happier about it. I do have some very young ones who still have their parents with them, but the parents always sit very quietly and only speak when I deliberately involve them. I've never had your problem, but can imagine how very annoying it must be! Keep us in touch with what happens.

Thanks for being so open about yourself and your daughters - it really helps.

I'm absolutely certain the child would be more communicative if she had lessons on her own. She's already significantly more communicative and relaxed than she was in the beginning, and always comes in smiling now and telling me things about her swimming lessons, or about the latest tooth to start wobbling, etc. But I think she'd be far more expressive without her dad there, bearing down...

Actually it wasn't quite so bad today - or perhaps it was because the lesson went particularly well and the dad could see it (god, am I insecure or am I insecure? ). But he still annoyed me by repeating a question if I asked her something and she didn't answer straight away. He should keep out of it!!!

I think I'll wait till after half-term, and then at the first lesson back, say something like you suggested, ie 'perhaps ***** would like to start having lessons on her own now, as I don't normally have parents sitting in except for the last five minutes sometimes so they can help with practice.'

If this fails and she refuses to have lessons on her own, I suppose I could always raise a warning finger to my lips when he starts to say something?

I would tell them at the end of the last lesson before half-term that after the holidays she can come by herself. This gives them a little time to come to terms with the idea.

I would also avoid expressions like "would like" which suggests that they have a choice in the matter. I would just say matter of factly that all your pupils have lessons without parents. If necessary (but only if they start objecting) I'm sure you can provide examples of younger ones than the child in question who you have taught successfully by themselves and you can also point out that for a shy child a one-to-one relationship with someone outside the family is an ideal way of building self-confidence.

Yes, you're right about the 'would like' thing. However, I don't feel it would be right to insist she stays on her own, because she may freak at the pressure and start getting all fearful at the thought of being on her own with me, which would be irrational I know, but understandable from her point of view as I doubt she's considered it before. This is because she was so nervous in the beginning, I bent over backwards to be accomodating to the nice mum who wanted to stay. If I'd known the nice mum was going to morph into the overbearing dad, I might not have been quite so accomodating...

Sigh.

Perhaps the best thing is to suggest she starts coming on her own when she turns seven? Which is quite soon?

This is why I said the week before the holidays. This leaves them the holidays to explain it to her. My younger one (the one who doesn't talk) can be very clingy and hates new situations if they are sprung on her suddenly. However, she is open to reason. For her, it would have been major drama if she hadn't been prepared for the idea that I wouldn't stay with her (ie if the teacher just said at the beginning of a lesson, "OK today you can stay by yourself") but she accepted the reasons I gave for not staying. I also talked through what was going to happen, when I was going to leave, what I would be doing while she was in her lesson and when I would come back.

I think that's a good idea kerioboe - it gives her time to adjust. Much as I admire your sensitivity towards the child, Violinia, at the end of the day she will have to make-or-break at some stage.

I have a sensitive 7 year old (her 4 year old sister makes her cry ) who cried at the thought of having to practice her violin when she first started at the age of 6. Whenever I suggested that maybe she should wait until she was older for lessons, she'd insist that she wanted to continue (her best friend played). It drove me to frustration! It took an overheard conversation I had with Mr LT, where I said I was going to insist she stopped because she never wanted to practice, to make her miraculously start practising (we were woken up the next morning to strange noises on the G string!) and she's not looked back since - okay odd tears which is to be expected but not the full-blown sobbing I'd had previously.

Tough love maybe? All parents want the best for their kids. I hope your suggestion will be well received.

The problem is - it's impossible to speak to the dad without the daughter hearing, at which point I'm pretty sure she'd panic, feeling the adults were conspiring together...

I don't want to have this conversation on the phone but I don't want the daughter to be there when we have it either. Perhaps I should just bring it into the chat with her at the next lesson and say something like: 'perhaps when you're all grown up and seven it might be a good idea to start having lessons on your own like ****** (a child at her school, whom I also teach). This would give her a good month to prepaper herself, and give the dad some time to get used to the idea as well. After all, she goes to school on her own and must have been going for the last year...

I've just started teaching another child, this time aged ten! who seemed very alarmed at her first lesson at the idea of being left on her own. Well it was the first time I'd met her so fair enough, but then she wanted her dad at the second lesson too (sigh) and when it came to the third lesson she looked completely panicked when the dad made to leave. He nearly stayed but we managed to persaude her to have the lesson on her own, and unsurprisingly she became FAR more chatty and communicative as soon as the dad left the house. We had a great lesson and now she's fine on her own.

But then she is ten.

My daughter has been with her new violin teacher for just over one month. It's expected that I stay with her for the lesson - I go over what we've practiced at the beginning and then sit in the corner and either watch or do theory. I had to leave her 2 weeks ago to fill the car up (really low on petrol ) as I was going straight from the lesson to a party - she didn't bat an eyelid when I left.

It may not be taken as badly as you might think!

No that's true, but I'm not sure I agree with the 'tough love' approach. My mum took me to nursery for the first time when I was three, but hadn't told me she was going to leave me there! I freaked when she said she was going off to do a bit of shopping, and the teacher got cross when I started to cry, whisked me under her arm, carried me upstairs and gave me a severe talking-to. I even remember which side of the hallway the stairs were on, the memory is still that vivid.

I know this is very different, but I don't want to put this child through anything remotely resembling what I went through that day. There's got to be a way to do it just right.

I can see where you're coming from now.....must have been very traumatic for you to still remember it now! I agree that you have to be honest with kids, but that doesn't mean that you should go 'softly, softly' all the time - give them an inch and they take a mile, believe me!

If my experience is anything to go by, a bit of toughening up, as long as it's carefully supported by lots of words of encouragement, does wonders. Despite some 'tough love', my daughter knows that I love and care for her. They can't be molly-coddled forever.

Confidence and self-belief is something that I believe takes you far - regardless of academic achievements - and the sooner that confidence can be instilled into a child the better. As long as the situation is handled properly by the parents I don't think you should feel any sense of guilt at your suggestion.

Hi Violinia....

I just wanted to say Good Luck with this situation and that I'm watching with interest after what happened to me this week. I went to visit a pupil for the first time and not only had this pupil in the room but also her extended family; her mother, her aunt, her grandmother and even her sister, all firing questions at me! And thispupil (who is 14) sat there muted most of the time. I felt like I was being interrogated and insisted next time I see her it will be on her own... but I could certainly learn something from your situation!

Good grief....

Blimey! You must have felt it was your lesson and not your pupil's! Talk about pressure! Good luck for next week......

...well it was an experience I'll tell you that much. I kept checking the clock to see how long I was there for, it ended up being an hour and not half an hour. And the pupil I am supposed to take couldn't find the cord for her Keyboard until the last minute, despite the fact they all knew I was coming...

I'm new to this whole thing but I can safely say it was one crazy experience!!!

Live and learn.....we've all been there one time or another!

Seriously, although I'm not a teacher, in my profession I deal with a fair number of awkward characters. Stick to your guns and don't let them dictate the situation. You will become more thick-skinned as time goes on - I think you need to for your own sanity. That's not to say that you have to be rude or awkward yourself in return; if you lay the ground rules early on and stick to them, then things do tend to run smoother.

This is precisely why I think it is important to give some advance warning. Also you should respect the child's rituals if necessary. Last year my daughter needed a kiss and a cuddle and then a wave from the door when I left her. After about six months her teacher did say somewhat bemusedly, "You know it's only half an hour and your mother's sitting in the corridor she's not going to disappear" but to her credit the teacher never tried to hurry this up. This year (and it's a different teacher) we are down to just a quick kiss.

The fact that she knows someone else who has lessons by herself with you is also a point in your favour and I would definitely mention it early on in the conversation. Both my daughters are very keen to do exactly like everyone else and will put up with things they really dislike just so as not to be different.

Stress all the positive points about how well she has settled down and how pleased you are with her progress and that this is why you would now like to have her by herself.

It strikes me that today's teachers are much more in-tune with their pupils and their needs. However, I think it is down to the parents to provide the support and guidance here, Violinia - you can only do so much to ease the situation. And, as kerioboe has wisely pointed out, there are other pointers you could use.

*inward smile*
Now that my daughter is in year 3, she's a 'big girl' - overdo the hugs/kisses and she'll run a mile! I suspect I only have a few more years before I become an embarrassment......

The child might be fine about having lessons pon their own, it might be the Dad who is clingy using his daughter to hide behind.

good luck the sooner the child is able to function for herself the more confident she will become.

ya, I have a situation like notmusimum just mentioned, a doting dad and his little girl - he's the one who doesn't want to leave the room or miss a thing, not the daughter! In fact, she's perfectly happy when mum drops her off, to march in and get on with it, it's dad who makes a fuss - and because he makes a big deal of leaving, she gets a bit clingy and shy and he thinks it's coz she's not totally comfortable. The minute he closes the door (and starts peering in through the little window...) she perks up again!

Kids pick up on all these signals don't they? And often act the way they think the parent expects them to.

I also have a dad I'm trying to phase out, similiar to Violinia's, very overbearing and corrects the son and daughter if they don't pick something up first time. I suggested he try learning too, so he could help them at home. He wasn't long leaving the room the next day!!!

good luck with whichever approach you take!

fiddlechick

(If this hasn't already been said) the ideal way to cut the umbilical so to speak would be over the phone. That wasy there's no danger of the daughter being wrong-footed by it. It also has takes the parent unawares and you will have the advantage of surprise. I would not necessarily ask to speak to the father. Just lay down the law with whichever parent is at home and give them the option: solo lessons or nothing!

LR

I also had a parent a bit like this. In the end I moved the music stand in my teaching room so instead of facing toward the parent I had my back to them. It might seem very rude, but when they said something I just ignored it, much easier with your back to them! It seemed to do the trick after a few weeks there were very few comments. If you have the room give it a go! Good luck.

I used to have all lessons with just me and pupil, but in the last two terms I have had several where the parent has just stayed (without asking/checking if its OK). Some of mine drive a long way, and there's nowhere else but their car or my house - although in the past they have always asked what I prefer, and I used to suggest my sitting room, nowadays they just seem to come in and take a seat! I found it strange at first - especially the parent of a 15 year old - I mean, I can understand the parents of six year olds or really nervous children wanting to stay but ...!

If asked I say I don't mind adults but not other children please, as it's too distracting. One mum with toddler sits in as long as she can, but leaves when toddler gets restless. It can be annoying when parents comment. I often get - 'but he did it so well at home' ... or 'slow down, Johnny....' from across the room. I tend to ignore it and quickly change the activity if that happens, rather than respond to the parent directly. Then I address the parent at the end of the lesson.

Most parents don't get to observe lessons (music or otherwise) in school, and class teachers get really annoyed with parent helpers who keep commenting on their teaching. In music lessons it can work out well where the parent / child relationship is properly supportive, and I can understand that parents want to know what they are paying for, but the mere fact of observing a situation changes it ( Relativity theory, Shroedinger, I think...) and older kids are quite used to relating to teachers without their parents there to comment. I know my own teenager would really resent me being there!

I had a thread about a similar situation not so long ago. Mine was resolved when the parent brought a friend with her, and I put my foot down and said it would be too off-putting for the child to have two adults watching, so parent agreed to take the friend for a walk, and come back early so child could perform what had been learnt in the lesson. (The friend had looked very embarrassed at the prospect of sitting in on the lesson, and was relieved to be taken away).

The following week I stressed how much better the child's concentration had been without parent there (mainly due to parent not interrupting all the time - but I didn't say that!) and parent agreed to sit outside.

So, if it were me, Violinia, I would say at the end of one lesson, to the parent but in the girl's hearing, "She is getting on so well now she doesn't need you in the room any more. I'm sure you'd like half an hour peace and quiet to read a magazine." If the girl protests, just tell her she's a big girl now, and her father will only be just outside the door / in the car outside, etc, of course she will be fine. If things are difficult at the start of the next lesson, say you will teach her a special piece to perform to her father at the end, and invite him back five minutes early to hear it. (I used a very simple duet - the pupil part was almost on one note, but the accompaniment made it sound impressive).

I am sure that once you have got him out of the room for one lesson, things will be much easier from then on. Good luck!

I agree, best to tell the parent what you want. After lessons on different instruments and in different countries, I've come to the conclusion that there's no such thing as "common sense" about how lessons work! One of my son's current teachers floored me by asking me to stay in lessons, and he occasionally addresses comments to me - although my son is a teenager. I'd rather not be there, but it's the teacher's call...and I think most parents would do whatever the teacher prefers in this respect.

That teacher sounds like me! All minors have to have a parent or guardian in the same room when I teach them. I'm a very friendly chap, so for a few seconds I might talk to the parent during the lesson. I think it makes them feel involved and not just wasting time just sitting there. On occassions the child will bring their grandparents as well as their mum/dad! It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I've had a few parents talk to their child during the lesson (the subject of this thread). With my body langauge and words I make it clear that I don't encourage that. They get the message pretty quickly, though in a diplomatic way.

To be honest I think demanding a parent stays in a lesson all the time is asking for trouble, especially teenagers (though not the point of this thread). Most of my pupils would run a mile if their parents sat over their shoulder in lessons. If parents want to check nothing inappropriate is happening they can stand in the cold and rain and look through the window. If the teacher had bad intentions to children there would be less obvious situations than a music lesson. If kids are to be taught that trust has its place they don't need them or their teacher supervised the whole time.

Sorry, but this is something I have an issue with.

Back on topic, I can imagine how frustrating it must be when well meaning parents interfere either at the lesson or at home. Perhaps they just have to realise where their responsibilities are. I'm not for the 'put up and shut up' stance, in fact it is very important to have parents involved, but not impede the child at the same time.

I wonder if music teachers could do what my local dancing school does... Parents aren't welcome in most lessons. That's just the way it is, but it is the parents who pay for the lessons... So 3 or 4 times a year, it's watching week... when parents come into watch and see the progress made. It is always watching week the lesson before an exam (to see them at their best) and the end of most half terms. You aren't invited if your child has just done an exam and is beginning a new grade (nothing to watch) or during the run up to THE SHOW which happens once every 2 years (as you can buy a ticket and watch the progress then!!!)

I allow parents to sit in on my lessons... but none do. I find it quite helpful in the run up to an exam to have the parent there to help re-inforce what needs doing.

My daughter's flute teacher makes it very clear I'm not welcome to the lesson EVER which I find a bit sad...but she's making good progress so I don't mind. In her piano lessons I can sit in if I want to and do occasionally. I sit in on my son's singing lessons which is good as he'd never remember what he had to do at home if I didn't. I sometimes have a snooze on the sofa in youngest's violin lessons... but her teacher is a friend and I make her a cup of tea at the beginning of the lesson. Never get to son's trombone!!! A watching week would be a good idea... I might suggest it at the school I teach in!!!!

I never sat in on lessons with either of my daughter's teachers, and it had never occurred to me that this would be useful. However, my son's clarinet teacher (whom he's had since age 13) said from the start that parents were welcome to come into lessons, so I did on several occasions - mainly because my son could never remember all the points the teacher had made, and found it helpful if I made notes. The teacher would sometimes call me in towards the end of the lesson and ask me to help my son at home by listening for a particular thing or watching for a posture fault.

So I think it can sometimes be helpful for the parent to be involved, but only if both teacher and pupil are comfortable with it.

Thanks for the advice. I'd take it, only - she's not a big girl yet - she's very tiny and quite fearful, so the issue isn't really getting him out of the room at this point. It's really about getting him to behave like his wife did when she used to bring the child, ie sit daydreaming or reading a book, not being overbearing. I can work perfectly well with a parent sitting in the room as long as they're not reminding me of things to ask the child, or trying to out words in the child's mouth - in other words, trying to control us both!!! I wouldn't even mind him taking a respectful interest, or taking a few notes if it would help with practice, but NOT trying to take over the lesson, which is an exaggeration, but still....

I still haven't quite worked out how to tell him to take a passive role without causing a potential upset in the process.

Violinia

I know, I had the same problem. In the end, getting her out seemed the best way forward. You can't change someone's personality, and as you say, asking him not to interfere would probably upset him. There again, it might not - but I didn't want to risk it with my parent, either. I had tried studiously ignoring the comments, but it just didn't work. I think some people are just like that, and can't be passive, especially when they think they are giving supprot and encouragement to their child.

My pupil had only just turned 6. 6 going on 7 isn't that tiny - that puts her in year 2, I would guess? In an infant school year 2 is the top class and they are expected to take on responsible roles to help with running the school. They will be used to being on a one-to-one with an adult for reading, possibly in another room from the main class. Even if she is shy, she knows you now, and I don't think you should worry about teaching her on her own.

Probably depends on the school - where I grew up, we had a primary school - reception right up to what is now year 6. So year 2s didn't/don't feel "big".

You don't have to listen to this, because im only a kid so i could be completely wrong, but...
could you possible leave a book/magazine/newspaper near the chair where he sits and say something like "oh i've left a few magazines there for you to read" at the beginning of the lesson?
It might be annoying hearing the pages turning but not as annoying as him talking.

Just an idea

[quote name='maddielou_' date='Oct 17 2007, 05:06 PM' post='613437'

You don't have to listen to this, because im only a kid so i could be completely wrong, but...
could you possible leave a book/magazine/newspaper near the chair where he sits and say something like "oh i've left a few magazines there for you to read" at the beginning of the lesson?
It might be annoying hearing the pages turning but not as annoying as him talking.

Just an idea
[/quote]

Wise words from "just a kid"! I have a granddad who insists on coming in - I say insists, but he just walks in every week with his granddaughter. I tried to discourage him by asking him one week if he would come back for her at the end of the lesson, so he went for a walk, but the next week he just came in again! But my point is that he doesn't interfere, only speaks if I speak to him and sits and reads his paper. So I'm okay with this. I have quite a few other parents who like to sit in and I really don't mind, because they don't interrupt at all and I feel it's good that they see what happens in the lesson. I have other students who make it clear to their parents that they want to come in alone and usually the parent will come in at the end so that I can talk to them. I've never experienced a talkative parent though - it must be very annoying.

This probably won't help the situation you're in right now, but I just make it clear from the outset that parents don't sit in the teaching room during lessons. I know other teachers work in different ways, but that's the way I work and no one has ever complained.

Once I let someone sit in, it's hard to tell them no if they become a problem/distraction, so I just steer clear of it altogether!

To be honest I hadn't realised how many teachers allowed parents to sit in before coming to this site. None of the teachers I know locally allow it and mine never did. The parent wouldn't really have asked though. It just didn't seem to be the "done thing", and anyway, I'd have been mortified to have my mum tagging along!

Obviously I can see the benefits of having a parent present during the lesson from reading posts about them sitting quietly/taking notes. I prefer just chatting to them afterwards if I think there's anything special they could do, and otherwise just encourage them to encourage the child

In this case I'd probably just phone up and be honest about my concerns, although I know that seems daunting!

I agree with this. Personally I prefer to sit in on my daughters' lessons, as when I do I find it much easier to help them with practising during the week, but what I do depends on the teacher. So the piano teacher, who teaches them both, doesn't want me in the room when my 10 year old is having her lesson, but is happy for me to be there when the 8 year old is. Partly to do with their personality - the 10 yr old is shyer and talks less when I'm there - their age (the older one is able to practise properly without me watching over her, whereas the younger one still thinks practising means playing it through once and then leaving it) - and their standard - the 8 yr old has just done grade 1 so I spend more time helping her practise than I do with the older daughter. When I'm in, I don't speak unless I'm spoken to (by the teacher) but when he is explaining something new, he'll often look across at me to check I understand what she needs to do - especially with exercises to help her tackle something she's had trouble with. With my older daughter he very tactfully explained that he didn't want me in the room because he wanted to establish a relationship with her that was nothing to do with me (word "relationship" sounds a bit dodgy, but you know what I mean). I imagine that at some point he'll ask me not to sit in on the younger one's lesson too, but I think he is a better judge of when the disadvantages of me being there outweigh the advantages.

My 8 yr old's cello teacher also prefers me out of the room (she thinks my daughter behaves better when I'm not there). I sit just outside the door so that I can hear what's going on, and every now and again she'll call me in if there is something new that she thinks I need to watch her demonstrate. The violin teacher for the 10 yr old seems quite happy for me to be present (but she's younger and not as experienced as a teacher, so it's possible that she just doesn't like to ask me to leave. Perhaps I should ask her...!)

If I understand it, the original problem was not about a parent being present but about the parent's behaviour while present. It seems entirely reasonable for any teacher to say that parents are welcome (if they are) but that they are welcome only on certain terms - and then set out those terms.

Incidentally, I think all my daughters' teachers are excellent and I have absolute confidence in them - both as teachers of their instruments (as far as I'm qualified to judge that, which is not very far!), and as teachers of my children. Perhaps I'm just not a naturally trusting type, but if I hadn't sat in the lessons and seen them in action, I don't think I'd be nearly so confident in them.

Sometimes I teach a whole lesson without speaking at all...when the student enters I do an OTT mime to say 'I've lost my voice' and we spend the lesson learning by using signs...if the student or parent speaks I do the 'finger on lips' thing you suggested, they have to find another way of getting their message across.

So the student plays, I might do some more OTT acting of pleasure in a lovely sound and neat staccato section, I might interrupt them and play a small section of the piece with a different articulation and get them to copy, I might do bowing games with visual clues only (none of the non-stop talking that I usually do, I know I do it too much, that's why I play this non-speaking lesson game sometimes)

It might help? The weeks after you could just do the 'finger on lips' thing to the dad if he speaks and it would still seem part of the 'game' rather than a rebuke?

Even when they're quiet their very presence can influence a child. I have a very nice mum who comes in every week and sits quietly with a crossword puzzle, but on the weeks when she can't make it, and dad sits out in the car, I feel as if I have a different child on my hands! He just seems to open up more to me, and there is much more rapport in the lesson, rather than me doing all the talking.

Although I do have quite a few mums who sit in and am okay with it, I can also identify with this. I have one girl who not so long ago became really difficult in her lessons, in that she changed from being easy to talk to and cooperative to being sullen and rather unapproachable. It was quite an amazing difference. I talked to her mum, who had always sat in on the lessons (always keeping very quiet and just listening) and she said that she thought it was her presence in the room and that she would try dropping her daughter off and coming back at the end. To say it worked is rather an understatement! I still can't believe the difference and don't quite understand it - in fact I feel a bit sorry for her mum, who probably feels quite hurt. By the way, this girl is 10 years old, so it could be an age thing.

I know what I would do, but I have the advantages of being older than most parents of young children, cantankerous, slightly deranged, and totally lacking in tact and diplomacy.

The child will thank you from the bottom of her heart when the interfering father is no longer hanging around in her lessons making her nervous and inhibited.

For the future, a good rule of thumb is to let the parent sit in for the first one or two lessons only - so they are re-assured their child is in good hands.

I hadn't realised this thread is still rolling on!

Actually I have an update: the dad has been bothering me much less over the last few weeks as he's taken to designing a website on a tiny hand-held laptop thingy, rather than bearing down on me listening to every word and commenting all the time. In other words, he's gone quiet and much less involved - and intringuingly the child seems to be having a bit of a breakthrough with her playing, ie sudden breakthrough - nice bowing, confident playing. She's also agreed to think about having lessons on her own when she turns 7, which is very soon. Actually I'm not holding my breath, as she'd clearly rather not have to think about it yet, but at least the dad isn't upsetting me any more - as long as he keeps bringing his hand-held device!

The wonders of modern technology....

That's great news

As I mentioned before, I've been encouraged to sit in on lessons but my mind does wonder.....it's difficult to stay focussed when you're not doing the playing yourself. I started therefore do grade 5 theory past papers during my daughter's lessons - with half an ear out for comments so I knew what she was meant to be practising. Might do the same with grade 6 - for wont of something to do....

Obviously Dad has decided that he needed to do something during lessons as well - and yes isn't modern technology wonderful!

I'd lost track of this thread like Violinia. But some interesting observations on other people's posts:

I teach in a prep school and we have an open lesson once a year which means parents are invited to sit in. This is hugely beneficial because we can say things to the parents that we need to, and for new parents they can ask questions to clarify practising, how to sit, etc etc.

BUT I am glad it is only one day because it alters the children's manner in the lesson. Almost invariably they are more nervous, not wanting to make a mistake, even though at the beginning I say we will ignore the parent sitting in the corner (and tell parent s/he may interrupt if s/he has a query - they usually don't).

At home I don't have parents sitting in lessons - I've only had a little hesitation from 1 under 5, and his mum said that she would be sitting outside in the car, so that was that!

I think instrumental lessons are a good opportunity for a child to take control of a bit of their lives - it gives them a feeling of independence and responsibility and absence of parents should be encouraged, with the proviso that parents can be involved at teacher's discretion when necessary such as running up to an exam.