Yes, this is yet another thread about nerves. My 'adult' pianist who will be turning 71 in the Spring has a real problem with nerves. She's been learning for just over 3 years and has got as far as Grade 5. The trouble is, in exams and performances, she is gripped by nerves, and just falls apart. She has got better over the years, but 5 exams and 4 concerts later, nerves are still a real problem. She even gets terribly nervous when she's playing in the lesson too. This is all a real pity, as she is very able.

Are there any solutions to this? She's really the only one I teach who is severely affected by nerves to the extent that it has a detrimental effect on her playing. Strangely enough, she is accomplished at public speaking, and has no problem with that at all!

I'm getting a bit desperate, and I know she is. She's working through the theory, and wants to do Grade 6 etc., but I wonder whether at that level it will ever be possible unless we can sort out the nerves!

I admit to finding this difficult to deal with, as I'm not naturally the kind of person who gets nervous. My performing and playing has certainly never been affected by nerves.

Solutions on the back of a postcard please........!

David

One of my friends takes beta blockers before her performances, and before her exams. She's a natural worrier, very shy, very talented at music and very clever, so she's terrified of changing all that (she thinks if she had one bad performance, she'd be a bad musician). I think she'd actually get ill if she didn't take the pills.

*Sorry, just noticed the forum this is in. I'm not an adult learner, and neither is my friend.*

Some people are very wary of beta-blockers. I'd say 'Don't be'; If this student is as badly affected by nerves as you say, tell her to read all the info there is to be found about them before deciding, and to speak to her own doctor. I certainly couldn't have continued without them at one point - and the doctor didn't think I was strange in any way; she said they were prescribed VERY frequently to nervous musicians - more so than most of us probably think.

I sympathise very much with this, though I don't have an answer! I actually have similar problems, but they vary enormously with the situation.

For instance, if I'm accompanying another player or children singing, the nerves totally vanish; I think this is because I'm focussing on keeping with the other party rather than worrying about my playing per se.

Also, I'm fine on the organ: 1) Because the touch is totally irrelevant, and that is one of the things I worry about most in piano playing 2) Because at our church the organist's seat is totally screened from the congregation, so I can't see anyone and therefore tend to forget that I'm not alone!

I've been trying to think why I tend to fall to pieces when playing a piano piece e.g. at a church concert. It's something to do with feeling that I am the main thing - when I play organ in church, people are really there to worship God and not to judge my playing; similarly when I'm accompanying, as long as I don't put the main player/singers off, I am barely noticed. But when I feel I'm under the microscope, I panic and the nerves set in.

This probably hasn't helped at all, David, but if you find some answers to your pupil's nerves, be sure I'll be interested on my own account!

Hypnotherapy worked wonders for me.

Unfortunately this can be a vicious circle - the more she worries about being nervous and messing up, the more likely it is to happen
I'm afraid I don't know the answer either - I have had this problem with a few adults and have just had to drop out of the exam system in some cases sadly...

Hi, I suffer with nerves at exams so much so that i could hardly play my instrument because of the shaking hands, so I went in to Boots the Chemist and bought some rescue remedy, just 3 drops on the tongue and it calms you down and its herbal. I can now play infront of anyone including large audiences. Hope this helps

If you do find a solution, please let me know. I too suffer from appalling nerves and fall apart completely when playing in public.

Perhaps you could try putting her in a stressful performance situation the day before the exam. The only time I have played reasonably well was when I had a major attack of nerves when rehearsing with the accompanist two days before the performance. (I played so badly during the rehearsal that my teacher thought I was ill ). However, this traumatic rehearsal seemed to get the nerves out of my system - I think it was just too exhausting to remain in such a state for any length of time.

I, too, am beta-blocker dependent for exams, etc. It's hard to play well when you are visibly shaking, and I opted out of my Grade 6 piano exam because of nerves. They always have a detrimental effect on my playing - I can guarantee to make a mistake if someone merely walks through the room at home when I am practising!

Sorry, David, I know this is no help to you at all. But please add me to your list if you find a solution! I'm tempted to investigate Alicia's hypnotherapy idea....

However, I would say that there is hope for your student if she is accomplished at public speaking and doesn't have any problems there. I give an address at church every 3 or 4 weeks, and have been doing for several years, and I still trip over my words!

My younger son is currently rehearsing for the school production of Jesus Christ Superstar, in which he has the title role (spot the proud dad!!). They performed one scene the other evening for some presentation evening. In the car on the way there one of his friends commented about being nervous. My son said;

"Turn the nerves to excitement - it works for me"

Probably great when you're that age, but when you've been around for nearly 71 years, it's not as easy to just tell yourself that.

I'm definately going to explore the hypnotherapy avenue for her.

David

I think you're wrong here, David. My Mum, who is 87, does this kind of thing all the time. For instance, not so long ago she was stuck in a lift for about 90 minutes and had to be rescued by a fireman. All her elderly friends were saying how terrible, what an ordeal, etc, but Mum said it had been a great adventure and would give her something to talk about.

It's just a strategy for coping with life, and can be used equally well by any age of person. People really don't alter inside as they grow older - though I suppose many get more cynical about life! - and I think it's exciting at any age to be performing.

I'm not saying it isn't exciting, I'm just saying that just telling oneself that the experience is actually one of 'excitement' is not necessarily a long-term solution.

David

Please let us know how you get on.

Being good at public speaking doesn't help with other kinds of performance. It's because if you lose track
for a couple of seconds while speaking it doesn't matter. But a couple of seconds silence in the middle breaks the music.
Playing music is more like a hurdles race, you have to concentrate every micro-second on what's coming up,
or you trip. That takes practice, especially if like me it's easy to play on auto-pilot after you've memorised the piece
and if you do that then it will fall apart under pressure (muscle memory isn't that great).

A small amount of nerves is optimal for performance. I've now given so many lectures that I have to nerve myself up
or the talk will fall flat.

To my mind, I think music performance skills need to be learned the same as other skills. I teach students how to
give a lecture (maths ) and there's lots more to it than "just do it". eg there is a hierarchy of audiences to perform to,
with the examiner being at the very top The days of sink or swim are over in education, thank goodness.

Obviously individuals can have phobias, but in 10 years I've only had one student run away in tears, and it was easy
to see how she set herself up to fail (easy for me but not her to see).

I view myself as a beginner performer, but I do perform to my teacher and sometimes other students, weekly to family and
friends...strangers in hotel foyers late at night.....I played something really simple at a student recital....I view all this
as "performance 101". There's no way I'd stress myself with an examiner before completing "Performance 201"
(which I'll do when I figure out what that might involve )

I don't think she has a phobia of performance. One of her problems is that she approaches it in the wrong way - i.e. she has told you all the things which will go wrong before she even plays it. She also takes a long time to 'get going'. If one put her in front of an audience for a day, then I expect by the afternoon, she'd just be relaxing into it. She works herself up into a state about playing very easy - this is ridiculous, as she love's playing!

David

Sounds like hypnotherapy might work, as she is setting herself up to fail=not perfect rather than to succeed=pragmatic about mistakes. It's amazing how one part of your brain can sabotage another.

She sounds a bit like I was about my driving test. My teacher kept telling me off for constantly pointing out minor mistakes - often ones he hadn't noticed I'd made. He recommended Rescue Remedy to me as well. I don't know if it was placebo or real effect but I was very calm during the test and even managed to sucessfully reverse around a corner for the 1st time ever!

I have the opposite problem to her, performances, whilst making me a little nervous don't panic me. Speaking in public does to the point where I've thrown up a number of times imediately before giving talks. I tend to find imagining I'm actually giving a performance on an instrument rather than talking usually helps. Once I've got started I'm usually ok.

Is there any way your pupil can use some of the techniques she uses to be ok talking in public to playing?

I think you have hit the nail on the head here: "people really don't alter as they grow older." If she has never found performance exciting she is not going to now - at least that is true for me. Performing terrified me as a teenager and still terrifies me now.


This is why I suggested you find someway of enabling her to perform just before the exam.

She gets lots of opportunities to perform, and yes, over the past few years, she has got better. I'm not saying that she's 'altered' because she's 'grown older'. Its not that she doesn't like the idea of playing to other people, it's just that when it comes to it, nerves take over.

With regards to the "this is going to go wrong" thing, have you tried making her play without letting her tell you all this beforehand? If you see what I mean - not explaining myself well.

Turning nerves into excitement will work for some things, but I don't think playing the piano is one of them if the adrenalin is pumping so fast that your hands are shaking and sweating profusely. The 'state of excitement' - as in fight or flight - will be in your favour in energetic activities, but it's a different matter when you have to sit still and perform fine motor skills. There is a curve in adrenalin levels which has an optimum level for whatever task is at hand, but the line will begin to slope downwards sooner for playing the piano than for most other things - like public speaking. Which is why betablockers can be a god-send, because all they do is keep a lid on your adrenalin levels. There will be a point beyond which the levels will not rise. They don't interfere in any way with your central nervous system in the way that valium or alcohol do. And once you've realised that you can do in public what you can do in private you can dispense with them.

I'm with Dulciana on this. Not entirely sure I'd want to be dispensing with them entirely though... you never know when a situation might arise which induces the knee-knocking shakes again.

Actually, you're right! I've dispensed with taking them but I never went as far as throwing them in the bin! It's good to know that they're in the cupboard just in case. The thing is, though, that you need to take one about an hour and a half before the event; it's not like Bach's Rescue Remedy, which is instantaneous. I found the Rescue Remedy to be sort of 'warming', if that makes sense, but only mildly so, and at the time when I had a big problem it just wasn't enough.

I think the book 'Zen and the art of music' (or something like that - you know the one I mean!) has a section on this kind of thing. I found the book really interesting and helpful with all the games the mind plays on you. It might well help her in lessons, for a start, and then perhaps she could gradually move on from there.

I read recently that it's a good idea to practise after running up and down the stairs a couple of times. (I mentioned this in another thread a while back, but I can't find it now.) The reasoning is that it simulates some of the physical effects of nerves - thumping heart, etc. I'm not sure how to simulate the shaking, though - maybe a few Red Bulls before you start running...

I think she'd struggle to do that! Her confidence took a blow when she fell down them about a year ago and broke her ankle! We're very much still feeling the effects of that. I think that was the first time she actually thought "I'm getting old....!"

David

Sorry - that was a bit of a ridiculous suggestion on my part. I'd temporarilly forgotten the age of the student in question.

But there's still the Red Bull...

I live in a house with three floors (four if you count the basement but I don't usually practise down there) which means I have some experience of playing after running up and down stairs. Whilst it can make your heart beat faster and leave you a little out of breath I don't really find any similarity with exam nerves; a couple of deep breaths removes the effects of the stairs (whereas with performance nerves my breathing just gets shallower and shallower) and also as you say there is no shaking and no dry mouth.

The last few times I've had to play the oboe in public, rescue remedy has worked well for me. I find it just allows me to be in charge of my nerves, and not vice versa!
I'm not at all sure about running up and down stairs before I play as I'm mildly asthmatic...

I have only played once in public during last few years but due to nerves made a right hash of it. So I now avoid 'concert' situations. However I have played for residents at my mothers care home and that went relatively ok. Tend to think that if it is possible play something well below your current ability and then you know a mistake can be corrected without anybody really noticing. This obviously can't apply in exam situations but it will build confidence for playing in front of others.

Another strategy for building confidence is to play duets or in accompanying other instruments. I believe this is also the quickest way to develop as a musician anyway. Playing with others teaches you to keep playing after making a mistake, perhaps just with one hand, improves time keeping and sight reading.

Perhaps all of this is obvious to most forum readers.

I cycle to my guitar lessons and most of the time, I end up having to cycle like an absolute looney because I'm late. I arrive breathless, with my heart pounding, and legs like jelly and the teacher always launches straight into the lesson. I can testify that playing in this state is not conducive to making lovely music, and that's an understatement. I agree with Keriobee, it isn't like exam nerves, it's just like I've cycled very hard and I need a Red Bull to recover.

Beta blockers have helped me in exams, although nothing can get rid of the shakes completely. Rescue Remedy I'm not sure about, because I'm very sceptical about the flower remedies, and don't really believe in it, so maybe the placebo effect, if that's what it is, doesn't work.

I've had reasonable results with a herbal remedy, Passiflora and Valerian Tincture. Glug down half a dozen drops 30 mins before a lesson, and the heart rate definitely calms down, and that horrible breathless feeling is less pronounced. Has the added advantage of being brandy-based...

You know, I have to admit that something worked for me today (I took my exam today) and I was only mildly nervous.

I tried a combination of 4 things: the Bach Flower Remedies (as suggested by various contributors to this thread), Titanium necklaces and bracelets (this is a sportsperson thingy), masses of over preparation (i.e. playing the pieces and scales to death) and positive thinking.

Yes, I know, I'm almost embarrassed to admit to the Bach Flower Remedies as I'm very much, humm, how can I put this tactfully, not into homeopathy and stuff like that but I wouldn't change the above combination for another nerve wracking situation.

Gwu, you've found something that works for you. Whatever it is, stick with it, and very well done

Thank you Katjay. I think 'well done' is a bit premature. Maybe I was a bit too relaxed!? Let's see what the results are like and then maybe 'well done' is well deserved.

Hope your DipABRSM goes very well.

I have a real problem with nerves and next month I'm going to tackle it the best way I know how - as many performances as I can manage!

when I was younger I used to play in front of people no problem, now even if I know someone is in the house and 'might' be listening I fall apart completely. I have told many teachers about this problem but they all say if you can play well nerves won't stop you. Well I tell you it does! No matter how hard I practice or how much I perfect my playing I end up messing up.

I think really deep down it is a fear of messing up. I used to get it at lessons, because I'd think 'now this is the one chance you're going to get to show how much you've practiced' and voila I mess up and the teacher says I have to practice something that I've already spent the whole week practicing on and I get so mad with myself. Even when I've felt secure playing an easy part, as soon as I play in front of someone I still mess up.

I think there is only one solution and that is to play in front of people as many times as I can and experience messing up and not messing up in front of someone as many times as I can.

I think the problem stems from playing informally in front of people. i.e my friends and family come round and just stand around and say 'play something' which you do and as soon as you mess up, they walk away and start chatting amongst themselves and don't listen - which I must say feels terrible.

First I'm going to perfect my pieces so I can play them correctly by myself. Then I'm going to get my hubby to play a game with me and ask me to pick up any of the pieces from a random bar, then a random note until I'm comfortable picking up anywhere.

Then I'm going to organize as many 'formal' (where people have to sit and listen LOL) performances as I can and explain to people is to help me play with nerves and just get on with it. I think I will feel better if I realised the whole world doesn't come crashing down if I mess up.

But I will do my experiment and let you all know how my exam goes in December and let you know if it cured my nerves!

Yesterday I played while an engineer was fixing my laptop and I made so many mistakes and I was shaking and sweating and he wasn't even in the same room, he was downstairs! I was supposed to be practicing but I got all flustered and when he left he said 'thank you for the wonderful music!' and I was there thinking it was TERRIBLE! lol

Firstly I have to say for someone of 71 to get up to grade 5 in 3 years, wow what an achievement! (assuming she/he started from scratch I assume?).

I too suffer from terrible nerves and think that for your pupil, hypnotherapy is definitely worth a serious investigation. Otherwise its the long slow approach of playing in front of as many people as possible and attending learner concerts etc. to tackle the fear. Its not a fast progression!

I just had my lesson and exclaimed to my teacher that finally after a year, my heart hasn't raced before the lesson! So in about 10 years I might be able to play in front of her without shaking perhaps!