Good morning everyone,
I haven't posted here before but have enjoyed all the fascinating topics on all forums, spending many happy minutes that I should perhaps have used doing other things! It was browsing here that made me think perhaps there is someone out there who may be able to advise me.
I direct a ladies' choir and we are in the position of often performing in halls with (regrettably) no piano. We have therefore relied in the past on the keyboard belonging to our pianist. As a pianist myself, I have always found this unsatisfactory as I have never enjoyed the experience of playing it when I have needed to (fingers slip off the keys, can't differentiate in tone enough etc) and as a conductor it has never got quite enough volume for the choir to be able to hear it when they are going full tilt.
I have been assured by many, however, that technology has advanced so far that the best keyboards really are quite acceptable these days. I am also aware we should buy a sound system to enable the sound of an instrument to be better heard in the hall.
I was wondering - for a smallish choir (35 singers usually) and medium size venues (standard village/community halls and sometimes old people's homes), can anyone recommend a keyboard? It needs to be full-sized (88 keys) but portable. Ideally it would have wonderful touch and tone! We are fundraising at the moment and I have warned them that with a sound system we are likely to need to spend £1000 (they are reeling a bit, we are a small outfit) - but fellow students at my college (digression - I have the great joy and privilege of being a full time music student, at the grand old age of 43; it's fantastic - even if it requires some domestic juggling! end of digression) assure me that I might get something for £500. I don't want to buy something that would not be up to the job, or save moey at the expense of quality.
I will of course go and play before I buy, but I hope that perhaps someone out there has some experience (even negative, e.g. don't whatever you do buy a so and so!) then I would be really glad of your input.
With all good wishes,
Jane
(ps sorry haven't mastered this thing where you say what your interests and qualifications are in a signature!)
Full Version: Advice On Keyboard For Choral Concerts
Hello Jane and welcome to the forums.
Great to read about your choir, and that you are able to be a music student.
Not so much of the "grand old" by the way
- some of us can add a few years to yours! and I still consider myself a student although I earn my crust mostly by teaching.
There are people on the forums who will have more appropriate advice than I do - who know more about hall-sized spaces and sound systems. So my advice is a bit limited - I have a clavinova and a real piano and use both of them for teaching in a medium sized room. Like you, though, I have used smaller keyboards for accompanying and found them most inadequate.
However - you might find that some kind of stage piano would work for you. I think these are classified as digital pianos rather than keyboards. You'd need to fine-tune best make and model: Roland and Yamaha make them (among others). My OH has a fairly new Yamaha which sits on a stand - how portable is portable? this would probably need two people to move but is otherwise not particularly tricky. Some keyboards would probably be easier to move around. I think the price of this one new was in the region of 800 but can check later. Others will have (possibly more specific) recommendations and I'll be interested to see what comes up. Good luck in your search !
Great to read about your choir, and that you are able to be a music student.
Not so much of the "grand old" by the way
- some of us can add a few years to yours! and I still consider myself a student although I earn my crust mostly by teaching. There are people on the forums who will have more appropriate advice than I do - who know more about hall-sized spaces and sound systems. So my advice is a bit limited - I have a clavinova and a real piano and use both of them for teaching in a medium sized room. Like you, though, I have used smaller keyboards for accompanying and found them most inadequate.
However - you might find that some kind of stage piano would work for you. I think these are classified as digital pianos rather than keyboards. You'd need to fine-tune best make and model: Roland and Yamaha make them (among others). My OH has a fairly new Yamaha which sits on a stand - how portable is portable? this would probably need two people to move but is otherwise not particularly tricky. Some keyboards would probably be easier to move around. I think the price of this one new was in the region of 800 but can check later. Others will have (possibly more specific) recommendations and I'll be interested to see what comes up. Good luck in your search !
Welcome to the forums Jane. I have a Yamaha keyboard and I have used it in lots of concerts over the years. I cannot help with advice about a sound system to link up with it but I expect that someone else will. The model that I have is the DGX 220 and it cost around £230. I find the harpsichords, harmonium, and harp voices very useful. The harmonium sound is great for out of doors playing with a small group of singers at Christmas. We have been busking using it running on batteries many times, although it runs on mains as well. It is light and easily carried by one person and it would be worth investing in a hard case for it too.
I think with the choir of 35 people, with £ 1000, I would go for something like Clavinova or Roland. I play on these "electric piano" quite regularly to accompany local choir/school choirs etc, and although they are not the same as accoustic piano (for tone, touch volume etc), they are not too bad... I mean I manage it fairly ok.
Hello MaggieMay Thanks so much for your kind reply and for your welcome! Folks here always seem so friendly and helpful, it's much appreciated.. Portable on a stand is what we will need, yes, I am expecting to have to ask a couple of people to carry it about; it's just that people often recommend Clavinova (and thank you for those recommendations elsewhere) but they come in wooden cases to look like "real pianos" and are therefore heavy, not designed to be lugged around. You are right too, I should have said "digital piano".
What would be good if someone knew which Yamahas for example, had the same technology as a Clavinova inside, or sounded as good, but were on a stand. Your OH's one sounds like it might be in the right price region and size, are you able to very kindly let me know the model? I'd be grateful, thank you.
With all good wishes,
Jane
QUOTE(maggiemay @ Oct 28 2007, 09:50 AM) 
Hello Jane and welcome to the forums.
Great to read about your choir, and that you are able to be a music student.
Not so much of the "grand old" by the way
- some of us can add a few years to yours! and I still consider myself a student although I earn my crust mostly by teaching. There are people on the forums who will have more appropriate advice than I do - who know more about hall-sized spaces and sound systems. So my advice is a bit limited - I have a clavinova and a real piano and use both of them for teaching in a medium sized room. Like you, though, I have used smaller keyboards for accompanying and found them most inadequate.
However - you might find that some kind of stage piano would work for you. I think these are classified as digital pianos rather than keyboards. You'd need to fine-tune best make and model: Roland and Yamaha make them (among others). My OH has a fairly new Yamaha which sits on a stand - how portable is portable? this would probably need two people to move but is otherwise not particularly tricky. Some keyboards would probably be easier to move around. I think the price of this one new was in the region of 800 but can check later. Others will have (possibly more specific) recommendations and I'll be interested to see what comes up. Good luck in your search !
Thank you Petrat; it's good to know that your Yamaha works so well in those circumstances (and can even do the outdoor carolling, brilliant!) I might go to a Yamaha stockist and compare a few.
Many thanks again
Jane
QUOTE(petrat @ Oct 28 2007, 09:51 AM)
Welcome to the forums Jane. I have a Yamaha keyboard and I have used it in lots of concerts over the years. I cannot help with advice about a sound system to link up with it but I expect that someone else will. The model that I have is the DGX 220 and it cost around £230. I find the harpsichords, harmonium, and harp voices very useful. The harmonium sound is great for out of doors playing with a small group of singers at Christmas. We have been busking using it running on batteries many times, although it runs on mains as well. It is light and easily carried by one person and it would be worth investing in a hard case for it too.
Hello Hero,
Many thanks - I've heard that Roland is good as well as the Clavinova, and from what you say they are quite good for accompanying - good to hear that you manage on them even though their tone/touch is not so good.
Thanks again
Jane
QUOTE(hero @ Oct 28 2007, 11:15 AM)
I think with the choir of 35 people, with £ 1000, I would go for something like Clavinova or Roland. I play on these "electric piano" quite regularly to accompany local choir/school choirs etc, and although they are not the same as accoustic piano (for tone, touch volume etc), they are not too bad... I mean I manage it fairly ok.
people often recommend Clavinova (and thank you for those recommendations elsewhere) but they come in wooden cases to look like "real pianos" and are therefore heavy, not designed to be lugged around.
Yes - it takes a bit of effort to disengage the "legs" and the keyboard part and I wouldn't think it very practicable. This is possibly where the "stage pianos" score in terms of being liftable-off-the-stand (which then just folds up) although the keyboard part is full size and seems to have a good action - OH is very pleased with his.
I will find out what model it is. And my OH confirms it can be connected up to a sound system - as long as the sound system has provision for an external source.
You are right too, I should have said "digital piano".
No no, I didn't mean to suggest you should have called it that at all - but wanted to indicate that it's more like a piano than just a keyboard - which is often the factor that makes the difference in terms of action, control and feel. Some better keyboards have these things too but not all.
Back later!
Yes - it takes a bit of effort to disengage the "legs" and the keyboard part and I wouldn't think it very practicable. This is possibly where the "stage pianos" score in terms of being liftable-off-the-stand (which then just folds up) although the keyboard part is full size and seems to have a good action - OH is very pleased with his.
I will find out what model it is. And my OH confirms it can be connected up to a sound system - as long as the sound system has provision for an external source.
You are right too, I should have said "digital piano".
No no, I didn't mean to suggest you should have called it that at all - but wanted to indicate that it's more like a piano than just a keyboard - which is often the factor that makes the difference in terms of action, control and feel. Some better keyboards have these things too but not all.
Back later!
We have two Yamaha portable keyboards, a P200 and a P140. Both have full 88-key keyboards with some inertia that provide a touch that I find acceptable. They are also generously provided with sliders or switches to vary timbre, dynamic and reverberation. Both have sockets for audio out and both need a separate stand.
The P200 has large built-in speakers and a fairly good sound. Now that it is about 10 years old, the keys rattle noticeably at close range, but this might not be noticeable at a distance, especially at the volume appropriate for a large room or small hall. It has good vibraphone and organ stops, but no harpsichord. There are three jack sockets for sustaining pedal, "una corda" (which does change the timbre somewhat), and "sostenuto" (sustaining only what is depressed before it is), and another for a swell pedal. There are also sockets for MIDI, In, Out and Through. Its main disadvantage is its weight, OK for a large fit young man, but comfortable for two people otherwise. We paid about £1400 for it. I am fairly sure that this instrument has been superseded.
The P140 also has built-in speakers, but these are smaller and their sound is less good, especially on the piano stops. It has MIDI In and Out sockets. Its advantages are lighter weight, a good harpsichord stop, and choice of 7 temperaments, centred on any keynote. This cost less than £1000, fairly recently, and, AFAIK, it or a similar successor is still available new.
The P200 has large built-in speakers and a fairly good sound. Now that it is about 10 years old, the keys rattle noticeably at close range, but this might not be noticeable at a distance, especially at the volume appropriate for a large room or small hall. It has good vibraphone and organ stops, but no harpsichord. There are three jack sockets for sustaining pedal, "una corda" (which does change the timbre somewhat), and "sostenuto" (sustaining only what is depressed before it is), and another for a swell pedal. There are also sockets for MIDI, In, Out and Through. Its main disadvantage is its weight, OK for a large fit young man, but comfortable for two people otherwise. We paid about £1400 for it. I am fairly sure that this instrument has been superseded.
The P140 also has built-in speakers, but these are smaller and their sound is less good, especially on the piano stops. It has MIDI In and Out sockets. Its advantages are lighter weight, a good harpsichord stop, and choice of 7 temperaments, centred on any keynote. This cost less than £1000, fairly recently, and, AFAIK, it or a similar successor is still available new.
Hi Kenm
That's really helpful thank you - both over our budget I think but it helps me to compare. Many thanks for sharing your experience. I hadn't even thought about pedals etc so that was particularly useful to remind me to consider that too!
Best wishes
Jane
We have two Yamaha portable keyboards, a P200 and a P140. Both have full 88-key keyboards with some inertia that provide a touch that I find acceptable. They are also generously provided with sliders or switches to vary timbre, dynamic and reverberation. Both have sockets for audio out and both need a separate stand.
The P200 has large built-in speakers and a fairly good sound. Now that it is about 10 years old, the keys rattle noticeably at close range, but this might not be noticeable at a distance, especially at the volume appropriate for a large room or small hall. It has good vibraphone and organ stops, but no harpsichord. There are three jack sockets for sustaining pedal, "una corda" (which does change the timbre somewhat), and "sostenuto" (sustaining only what is depressed before it is), and another for a swell pedal. There are also sockets for MIDI, In, Out and Through. Its main disadvantage is its weight, OK for a large fit young man, but comfortable for two people otherwise. We paid about £1400 for it. I am fairly sure that this instrument has been superseded.
The P140 also has built-in speakers, but these are smaller and their sound is less good, especially on the piano stops. It has MIDI In and Out sockets. Its advantages are lighter weight, a good harpsichord stop, and choice of 7 temperaments, centred on any keynote. This cost less than £1000, fairly recently, and, AFAIK, it or a similar successor is still available new.
That's really helpful thank you - both over our budget I think but it helps me to compare. Many thanks for sharing your experience. I hadn't even thought about pedals etc so that was particularly useful to remind me to consider that too!
Best wishes
Jane
QUOTE(kenm @ Oct 28 2007, 03:37 PM)
We have two Yamaha portable keyboards, a P200 and a P140. Both have full 88-key keyboards with some inertia that provide a touch that I find acceptable. They are also generously provided with sliders or switches to vary timbre, dynamic and reverberation. Both have sockets for audio out and both need a separate stand.
The P200 has large built-in speakers and a fairly good sound. Now that it is about 10 years old, the keys rattle noticeably at close range, but this might not be noticeable at a distance, especially at the volume appropriate for a large room or small hall. It has good vibraphone and organ stops, but no harpsichord. There are three jack sockets for sustaining pedal, "una corda" (which does change the timbre somewhat), and "sostenuto" (sustaining only what is depressed before it is), and another for a swell pedal. There are also sockets for MIDI, In, Out and Through. Its main disadvantage is its weight, OK for a large fit young man, but comfortable for two people otherwise. We paid about £1400 for it. I am fairly sure that this instrument has been superseded.
The P140 also has built-in speakers, but these are smaller and their sound is less good, especially on the piano stops. It has MIDI In and Out sockets. Its advantages are lighter weight, a good harpsichord stop, and choice of 7 temperaments, centred on any keynote. This cost less than £1000, fairly recently, and, AFAIK, it or a similar successor is still available new.
Jane - my OH's Yamaha is the CP33. He paid about 800 for it.
It has harpsichord and clavichord as well as a choice of piano sounds. It has no built-in speakers so you'd need advice on which ones to get (ours plays through our hifi speakers which we already had in the room).
It has harpsichord and clavichord as well as a choice of piano sounds. It has no built-in speakers so you'd need advice on which ones to get (ours plays through our hifi speakers which we already had in the room).
QUOTE(maggiemay @ Oct 28 2007, 04:23 PM)
Jane - my OH's Yamaha is the CP33. He paid about 800 for it.
It has harpsichord and clavichord as well as a choice of piano sounds. It has no built-in speakers so you'd need advice on which ones to get (ours plays through our hifi speakers which we already had in the room).
Thanks so much Maggie - I'll have a look at it in our nearest Yamaha stockist! In reality it would be best to have one with its own speakers as a back up but as we need to buy an amp and speakers it might work out....At least it gives me really good starting point which, when there are so many instruments on the market, is very useful!
Best wishes
Jane
You're very welcome. I certainly would recommend a visit to a stockist if you have one locally.
Explain your problem and see what they come up with ! But also take the chance to play some instruments and get a feel for what you might enjoy using.
Good luck - let us know how you get on !
Explain your problem and see what they come up with ! But also take the chance to play some instruments and get a feel for what you might enjoy using.
Good luck - let us know how you get on !
Haven't a stockist locally (well, very good music shop but only about 3 keyboards to choose between) but I am going to the Festival Hall on Friday to see the Korngold film music concert (studied him briefly this term and can't miss the chance to go! lucky me) so I could always pop into somewhere in London while I am there.
Will let you know how it goes!
Will let you know how it goes!
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