Edit3: List in this post if you are willing to have a listen, with all the recordings I've done together.

What with being ill on and off for 6 weeks and generally disorganised anyway, I find myself less than 2 weeks away from my jazz exam without a clear idea of which pieces I want to play!!

So if any of you more experienced jazzers could offer some feedback on these recordings I'd be SO grateful.

I have a couple I like more, some I like less. I made sure to learn the whole book, basically, but there are a few I really like (sometimes, sadly, from the same section!) and a couple I just can't make myself like.

I'm a bit out of practice flute-wise but hoping that rough sketches (in some cases - others are a bit better) will be enough to give me some feedback.

I do of course reserve the right to totally ignore everything and decide to play the pieces I decide I like but in the meantime am trying to get feedback from family, friends, etc etc as much as possible just to give me things to think about...

Any help, therefore, much appreciated.

Will keep posting links as I manage to get vids up on youtube!

not jazz flute at all (list 1)

edit: ARGH youtube being a pain........

edit2: not idea what the balance is like so if it's bad I apologise... fighting with youtube just to record things, may replace with better versions If I can manage 'em

Hmmm, OK, that would be my nephew!!

Will repost the link in a minute when youtube stops being a pain Sorry!

Things Are Getting Better - List 1 (I hope!)

It might not play yet though...

Brown Skin Girl - list 1.

I'm not very convincing at Latin-y stuff methinks but this was pretty poor even for me. Will try and put up a better recording, if I should manage to make one...

Or maybe I'll just avoid latin

Others are processing and I will link to them but some will be available from the pages anyway I think if I give up and go to bed before they are finished processing.

"I'm an Old Cowhand" - list 2
song for my father - list 2

Rowing Song - list 3 (one I like!)

Evil Ways - list 3
Georgia on my mind - list 2
Hug Pine (Bambalela) - list 1 (prob my favourite from list 1 don't think it shows much here though!!!)

Old Joe Clark list 1 - not sure I like this one, find the improv a bit odd - monotone chords and weird length (14 bars)

Right, all processed now so... if anyone is willing and able to give constructive help I'd so much appreciate it.

I've not done 2 that I just don't like at all, however much I try to! (Red Pepper Blues, I'll Take Les)

The *d ones are the ones I actually like so if you don't want to listen to them all (and I don't blame you) those are my priorities/the ones I'm probably choosing from unless I really can't make them work at all

Unmarked ones I'm not sure about. Ones marked ? I'm really unsure about or just don't like as much as others!!

List 1

Old Joe Clark ?
Things are getting better *
Brown Skin Girl
Hug Pine (Bambelela) *

^ This is my least favourite list and the one I'm having the most trouble finding one I like *and* can play convincingly. Hug Pine is probably my favourite. OJC I just don't find very flutey and the improv is weird (maybe it's me!) - Things are getting better is quite fun, Brown Skin Girl I'm rubbish at the improv on...

List 2

I'm an old cowhand * maybe
Song for my father *? (like, but bit rubbish at!)
Georgia on my mind *
Sombrero Sam ?
A walkin' thing

^ I think I like Georgia the best though would prefer to avoid 3 slow ones unless I just give up on having a vaguely varied selection! Cowhand is fun , Song for my father is pretty but again, Latin-esque improvs and me don't seem to mix too well...

List 3

Rowing Song **
Oye Como Va ?
Serenade to a cuckoo *?
Evil Ways * but am a bit pants at improving on.

^ Rowing Song is my favourite in the book by miles but again seem to be picking all slow ones. The others are OK but a bit rubbish at the improv bits...

Argh.

Any and all help appreciated.... Pwease....

I'll try and listen to all of these but currently have the world's most annoying broadband connection at home, so it might be a slow process. I've listened to the first few you posted - I thought that Things Are Getting Better sounded very convincing, you seem to be more in touch with the pulse than on the grade 1 recordings you posted a while back.

If you want to get better at getting the feel of Latin pieces (I bet you know what I'm going to say now!) you need to listen to more Latin. In fact, if you're trying to teach yourself in isolation with just a couple of books and some backing tracks listening to as much as possible becomes even more important - not just idly listening either, but really working out what's going on and trying to use that in your own playing. I was listening to the Horace Silver recording of Song for My Father on the way to work this morning. Both the piano and sax solos are very simple (the piano especially) and very bluesy. Listening to these would really help you to work out what to do with your playing. I haven't listened to your recording of Georgia yet, but there must be 1001 recorded versions of it - I'm sure it would help to listen to some and see how other people have treated it.

One of my misgivings about the jazz exams is that it's entirely possible to get a distinction at grade 5 without ever playing with another real, live person - I think that misses the point of jazz. Possibly a slightly controversial piece of advice on an ABRSM forum would be to forget about the exams for a while after grade 2 and do everything you can to find somebody else to play with.

edit: apologies for wafflage - I'd be in bed except I couldn't sleep!!


Thanks - I appreciate any and all help you can give! & glad that one is sounding OK.



Any recommendations? I think possibly part of the problem is that I am yet to be truly inspired by most Latin stuff I have heard!!

I DO like Santana, how much they fit into jazz as a genre I don't know - but the question is presently academic as my mum lost the CD.....................


Yes, totally - I have a small and eclectic but slowly growing collection of CDs and stuff (Grappelli, Ella, Satchmo, Keith Jarrett, a few others), and do listen to theJazz and the jazz offerings on radio 3 whenever I can.


It's a piece I know from a long time ago but don't have a recording of at the moment. Unfortunately I just don't have the spare cash to buy lots of jazz CDs, but between itunes and buying cheaper CDs I'd amassing more. I'm not sure I've ever heard a "proper" jazz version of it, (besides the examples on the CD, and most of those I don't find that inspiring...) but I certainly know the tune well.


Georgia is the only one in the book I feel I know reasonably well... I don't own a recording and so haven't been able to listen to it "properly", but it's been in my "aural landscape" if you will for many years and it's one I've heard sung by many artists.


I'm inclined to agree to an extent, but for me at the moment, the choice is play jazz with CDs and on my own, or don't play jazz. I don't have independent transport, and my health is rubbish. (Even the music groups I belong to, to which I can always get a lift as people are going who drive past my house, I can't always get to - I think I've been to orchestra once or maybe twice this term, and there's been a weekly rehearsal since early September! Joining a jazz group right now would just be giving myself something else to feel guilty about missing )

Health and wealth permitting, I'd have regular jazz lessons with Violinia (the jazz workshop Jane and I did with her a while back was absolutely fabulous and inspiring - I learned such a lot). There are so many things that I am aware of that I know a teacher would be able to help with, so heaven knows all the things that I won't be aware of that a teacher would spot a mile off!

As it is, if I limited my jazz to when I can play with others, I'd play very rarely and even then mostly with people for whom I am the more experienced jazzer (not saying a lot! ) I jazz play with others as often as I get the chance, but I don't have many opportunities to do so. The nearest jazz groups I know of are 8 miles away... at the moment that might as well be 80 miles, cos I can't get to them.

One of the reasons I'm NOT going straight for grade 5, although I'm reasonably sure I'd pass and even do OK in it, is precisely because at the moment the jazz exams/materials and the assessment are my easiest structure and source for tunes and feedback, and I want to (best I can) lay the groundwork for being a half-decent jazzer, rather than just get the certificate. If this were simply a paper chase I would enter for grade 5 next term! But I think that would be actually selling myself short in terms of what I can learn from the exams.

What I'm trying to do (though with being unwell this term is hasn't happened to the extent I planned ) is to learn as many of the pieces from the books (and from other sources - the AB books are not the only books or CDs I have) as thoroughly as possible. My aim is not to get to grade 5 having learned 15 pieces, but having learned pretty much all of the pieces I own backing tracks to, and some that I don't. And when I say "having learned", my aim for these pieces (which I achieved for large chunks of the G1 book) is to:

be able to play them by heart - head and solo without needing to look at the music;
know the chord progressions as best as I can, although I am not someone who takes naturally to chords ;
be able to play the head, with suitable embellishments, and do a reasonable solo without the backing track - with and without the music;
be able to "play" the head and do a solo away from the instrument, either singing or in my head;
and ideally to be able to do the latter without necessarily needing the music or the backing track.

It hasn't gone to plan so much this time round but not for lack of motivation, just the imposition of "real life" *wry grin*

I've been quite determined also to always keep experimenting with the improvisations. In my G1 exam, and when I played one of the G2 pieces for a forum concert, I can honestly say I tried new things even in the performance situations, and I'm going to keep doing so... I've been forcing myself NOT to get stuck in a rut and end up learning "improvs" off by heart.

Similarly when it comes to scales, I've not looked at the requirements and just learned those I need for the exams - one of the first things I did was make sure I could play the Dorian mode from any note, and I'm working on Lydian; Mixolydian and the pentatonic scales/blues scale will probably be next on the list!!

I'd LOVE to play regularly in a jazz group - or just with someone more experienced than me who could help me along. At the moment it's not possible. In the meantime I'm certainly NOT doing the exams as an end in themselves - but they certainly help give me a structure to work around, practice improvising in front of someone (far more scaring than doing so in my front room), etc etc. I doubt a "real" jazzer would take me seriously just because I had grade X, but then I wouldn't expect them to!! But I do hope/think that approaching the materials and exams as I am will at least give me a reasonable basis for (one day, I hope) doing jazz "properly". Any tips on what else I can do in addition to the things I have mentioned (and the ubiquitous "listen to lots of jazz") would be fab, and vastly appreciated. But at the moment I have to do jazz within the limitations of my health and my finances

Erm. Sorry, I think I waffled I'm a bit shattered and only on here because I couldn't sleep. But yeah... thank you very much for any help and guidance and feedback you're able to give... and I am taking jazz seriously, not just as a means to get more certificates. Just don't have the ability, at present, to do more than I can manage on my own at home.

I'm sure that more than one is sounding OK - I just haven't had a chance to listen to most of them yet.

As for the rest of your post - I kind of anticipated that was how you wouold respond and I do understand all that you're saying. I'm coming from it as someone who's been in a not dissimilar position to the one you're in (but with a lot less focus) and had my eyes opened wide when I really started to have proper lessons and talk to real jazzers. It was a case of moving from the Unconscious-Incompetence area to the Conscious-Incompetence, I really had no understanding of just what it was I wasn't doing - now, on a good day I might approach Conscious-Competence!

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with playalongs. They're incredibly useful practice tools, not many of us have a rhythm section on call, but the fact that they're the same every time you play them means that, for me anyway, after a while I end up playing pretty much the same thing over them. You can also get to the point where you stop really listening to them because you know how they sound - getting out of the habit of listening to the rhythm section is bad news. I know that I've learned tunes in the way you've described - learning the head and changes inside out, playing along etc and thought I had them down. Then I've played them with real people and found that I didn't. I hadn't learnt that tune, I'd learnt how to play along to that backing track, once it changed I was lost.

Another problem, I think, with the jazz exams as they stand is the short space you're given to improvise - is it 8 or 12 bars usually? Just about everyone I've ever had lessons from has made a big point of how important space is in a solo, don't play everything you've got but leave plenty of space for your ideas to form and a conversation to develop. When you hear someone who knows how to use space play the effectiveness is immediately apparent. It would take a very brave candidate to leave 4 out of their 8 bars improv space empty. Of course that's not so much a problem for the exam candidate who's getting lots of other playing opportunities where they have a chance to experiment with building a solo over 2 or 3 choruses and is just using the exam as an opportunity to show what they can do - If you're basing your learning around the exam syllabus it could become a problem.

The other two areas where professional input has made an enormous difference to me are in learning the theory/functional harmony/musical analysis - I used to have one teacher who was particularly good at that, and in pushing me to play in ways that are different to the natural comfort zone I fall into, off the top of my head a random selection are:

Now we've got that in C let's play it in F#
Play 4 bar phrases, each phrase has to start on the and of 3 and finish on 2
Play a 4 bar phrase with 2 bars "inside" and 2 bars "outside"
Play the first 8 bars without playing the 3rd or 7th of any chord or playing on 1
Play the whole solo only using chord tones
Play a solo based around the following rhythmic motif
Play a solo inserting this lick over ever ii-V-I
Play one long note starting on the and of 4 and holding for as long as possible (surprisingly powerful)
This is a map of your solo over the form - play something that fits it
etc, etc

These are all the sort of things it's really useful to practise over playalongs (except, possibly, playing in F# over a playalong in C). It means your solo has a point to it and isn't going to tend towards waffle. One of the things that really jumped out at me when I started recording myself playing at the start of the year (must do some more, I haven't for a while) was firstly just how much I waffled, and secondly how obvious and how boring it was. It was all pretty much in the right key, in time, nothing offensive etc it was just dull. In contrast those recordings where I'd been working with a particular idea in mind (or more usually the 8 bars in an otherwise waffly solo) stuck out like beacons for having a purpose and really meaning something. I think it goes hand in hand with the leaving space thing - only play if you've got an idea and you're playing for a purpose, if you start waffling shut up, listen and start playing again when you've thought of something worth saying.

I'm now at risk making a very long, waffly post with nothing much worth saying - so to get back to one of your questions - Latin music - I don't have tons of it myself but one band I've discovered recently and really enjoy are Banda Mantiqueira, they're a Brazilian big band and just great. I've downloaded a couple of their albums from emusic. There's a Latin programme on theJazz on a Saturday evening I sometimes catch as well, has me dancing round the room while I'm doing the ironing. For something more contemporary but with a Latin feel (though maybe more Spanish influenced) you could try Oriole - their CD Migration is really lovely and has the incredibly beautiful pairing of Ingrid Laubrock on tenor sax and Ben Davis on cello, plus the remarkable Seb Rochford on percussion - v. highly recommended.

yeah know what you mean (not in jazz, but generally!


Yeah, one of my grade 1 pieces I had "SPACE" written very large over the solo section... I do wish some of them were longer, but they seem to get longer as one goes up the grades which is good. I keep meaning to rip a couple of tracks to my pc, open them in the computer, and edit them so that the solo section is repeated a few times, but haven't yet got around to it...


Yup, that makes sense!


Thanks for those recommendations... I must have a listen on Sat evenings!

And thanks for the thoughts (that I haven't quoted!) re making improvisations better... very helpful and very much appreciated.

I know there's only so far I can go doing jazz on my own, but stuff like this really helps me do the best I can, so that when I DO finally get to play with others I have at least prepared as best I can! As I say - I wouldn't expect a jazzer to take me seriously in a playing situation just because I had grade 5 (or 2, or whatever) - but even if I find myself practically back at square one I'm giving myself as much a feel for things, and as much an idea of the supprting knowledge of chords and scales etc, as I can. All I can do at the moment!

OK - I've listened to them all now, and for better or worse, this is my verdict:

List 1: I think Things Are Getting Better is the best of the bunch, probably followed by Old Joe Clark

List 2: Agree about Georgia, I especially liked the phrase at the end of the head on the final time

List 3: This is where I disagree! Didn't really like Rowing Song, it might have been because I couldn't really hear the backing track in the recording but it sounded a bit waffly. I thought the best was definitely Oye Como Va, it was rythmically good and you played something nice and simple but it sounded as though you had something to say. Next best, IMO, was Evil Ways - you seemed to really be getting in to it towards the end and I think it finished stronger than it started.

Don't suppose that's made teh decision any easier!

Just wanted to belatedly say thanks, TSax - exam was a bit pants in the end as I just haven't been well, so nothing really went right and I was out of practice! - but the feedback from it is probably going to be more useful that way! oh well

Haven't heard the result yet, should do sometime soon though.

That's a shame - but given the fantastic mark you got at grade 1 there's probably some room for error and for you to still end up with a decent mark.

Good Luck

Hope you've done well sarah!

Same here!

Thanks everyone for the kind posts - I've been really unwell or I'd've said thanks earlier.

Finally got my result yesterday - 137! Very pleased especially as I hadn't felt the exam went so well and was tentatively hoping for a high merit or to scrape a distinction by the skin of my teeth.

Also, as predicted (LOL) the feedback was more useful on a less good exam performance, so although it was a bit stressful feeling so underprepared, it was useful in a way too. Also nice to know that despite nerves and lack of preparedness I can pull off a convincing show.

Thanks again for help prior to exam (TSax, you rock!) and all your good luck wishes since

Many congratulations Sarah!

Well done, Sarah.

Wooo, really pleased for you! Congratulations

Well done - a great result.

That's very impressive ! Very well done ! -D-

Well done!

Grade 3 next term?!

Oops! I don't know why I thought I'd already said well done when I hadn't, but 'Well done' anyway.

Oooh, I missed this!

Congratulations Sarah!

belatedly - thanks guys

Sarah-Flute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good to see you back - hope you're feeling better!

Almost exactly my reaction!!!!!!!

Awww... you guys rock

Haven't been well. Will attempt to slowly catch up!

Very pleased to see you, anyway.

That it is - I'm sure many forumites have missed reading your posts - I know I have.

Hope you're feeling even better soon

Belatedly (again!) thanks Andante and Barry