Where have all the violists gone??? Come and talk to me, it's getting lonely here in the alto corner all by myself....

Hi!

W

And the harpists!!! Come back and talk about harps!!!

Hi elisabeth!

I can read the alto clef now that I've done G4 theory But that about all I know about the viola I'm afraid

Howya doin'?

Hi Elisabeth! Viola is hard, isn't it?

Hi Elisabeth,

I've just had a couple of lessons with my new viola tutor (well, actually she is a violinist but so far its working out for me!) I have lots of things to practice - so kind of glad that I only have a lesson once a fortnight.

What are you working on at the moment Elisabeth?

Lis

As it happens I've been thinking about acquiring a not very expensive viola myself, as I've always liked the sound and wanted to have a go. Not sure whether to go for the renting-for-a-term option or not; as I am probably committed to playing violin. However the violin is rather unrewarding at the moment so I'm quite motivated to try something new and exciting - the problem of course would be finding the time/tuition/etc....
N

If I actually had time to play viola these days it might help, but I have every intention of getting back into the swing of things next year .

Primrose - I agree!

hello, another violist here, and delighted to have met one other from the forum at the YLSS quartet day,
It's hard going at the moment, as it's lots of technique and not many tunes. It will pay off in the end, but I've been told that it's going to be a long time before I attempt a piece!Hey ho , welcome scales and bowing and timing ( at which I am truly dreadful!!!!!!!!) So the metronome is my new best friend,
(what a sad life,)
What a good idea to have a viola thread like this, I hope others can join in. Classical star has just provoked far too much talk of violins!
Looking forward to hearing from other violists
Rebecca

*peeks her head nervously round the door and gazes admiringly at all the viola players....*

"Helloo - just want to say violas are lovely and if I had time/money/space/bigger-hands I would love to have joined you all......"

*..rushes out and bangs the door behind her before they all realise she's a v£!*lin player.....*

WAHAY! That's better! Great to see you all!

Hey Willobie!

Yo, Skyers! Glad to hear you've met our clef!!! I love clarinet and, if I were to learn a wind instrument, I'd be begging you for tips! How's it going? Well, musically very slowly as life has been pretty cracked of late. If I do join in the Leeds concert day next year, I won't be doing a much more advanced piece than last year.....

Yup Primrose, it is hard, but is anything easy really worthwhile???

Hey onion! What am I working on? Mmm, I've had such a moronic week that I've almost forgotten what I'm on in my music lessons and haven't been able to practise since my last lesson owing to the world turning over and having nasty neuralgia. Anyway, (racks brains to think.....), we've done a lot on bowing recently and now we're doing bow economy and speed etc with some very basic music. I've only been learning since Feb this year and am on my 2nd teacher already We've also done some holistic music stuff, ie singing in sol-fa. It's kid's stuff really, but I think it's quite helpful for me too. Their version have words, whereas we just do the plain do-re-mi business.

Go for it, Nova! I've heard you play violin and I think you'd do well on viola too. If you're within reasonable lesson distance of Leeds, then I can recommend my teacher whole heartedly. She's got an LRAM in viola teaching. If you're interested in contact details, PM me.

Rebecca, sounds like we're on similar stuff! How long have you been playing?

Lottie hun, you don't need big hands to play viola. It's really only a tiddly bit bigger than violin and my teacher has tiny hands with short fingers and she can play just fine. Don't let that put you off! Keep it on your to-do list!

Probably you and me both kidda



That's great news, glad it's worked out well

And you're working towards grade 5?? That's really discouraging ...

No , not discouraging, just realistic, I passed Grade 4 , but not with any great confidence, and pulled up enough marks in the viva , so it was a real scrape. and both my teacher and the guy I practice with have placed an embargo on pieces and exams.
It's easy to busk along if you can read music and noodle through some tunes, but it's not really playing and the lack of technique is really beginning to matter now. Some of the double stopping in the grade 5 pieces, ( which I've snuck a look at!) is really out of my league, and it'll do me good to go and do some serious technique for a while ( quite a long while I guess).I've found the Mary Cohen book " Technique takes off" really helpful, and am doing scales from the Trinity books.
My real bugbear is playing in time, and I'm so hopeless at that, so playing duets , which I do every lesson is good practice, there's a book of Mozart duets arranged for 2 violas which also comes out each lesson. Other than that , the bowing exercises are good as well, it's just there's so much to learn, and when you're working, have kids and are permanently shattered, practice is rarely regular and never perfect.
The real joy is playing in our local orchestra, and sometimes, when it goes well and I've stayed in time and managed mainly correct notes,a nd the bow is mostly going the same way as everyone elses, well , that's a really good feeling.
I play in the same orchestra as 2 of our children, and that's good too.Although they are both a great deal better than me, ( tho none of us are great,)
So, don't be discouraged, it's such a beautiful instrument, and yes, I'd agree with elizabeth, you don't have to have enormous hands at all.
GOod luck everyone and see Willobie in Leeds?
Rebecca

Hey Elisabeth,

at the moment I am playing all sorts of things, still working on getting my shifting smooth and in tune. I'm playing some pieces from Got those Position Blues and (like gummidge) Technique Takes Off.

I am finding that it is really helpful having fiddle lessons as well as viola lessons, as often my fiddle teacher picks up on little things that I haven't discussed with my viola tutor. Playing Irish trad is also helping me play faster - something that I have always struggled with.

Keep going with the solfa - I have found that solfa really helped my intonation. It still goes wonky a lot but at least now I know it is wonky and I can usually correct it. But it is still a conscious correction, and I would like to correct my intonation without thinking about it.

Lis

I'm sure it's realistic, but it's definitely discouraging too! Still, I've never seriously thought I would ever get beyond, say, grade 5. If I could keep my end up in an intermediate-level ensemble I'd be well satisfied, but even that looks an impossible dream. I'm increasingly tempted to give up and try the banjo or something.

This struck a chord with me, gummidge, although I've arrived at this point a grade earlier than you. I don't want to imply that it's been easy getting to Grade 3 (far from it!), but I've got there with less *structured* effort than I need to put into Grade 4. Like you I've "noodled" (love that word! ) but it's not the same as serious attention to technique. So also like you, I want to catch up on technique now. I don't mind playing finger exercises or long note practice (I'm clarinet), as long as I feel as if I'm achieving something, and instead of "noodling" I've got to use my practice time more intelligently - I've not been disciplined enough in the past


Look forward to meeting you if you're planning to come to Leeds



edit: Sorry elisabeth, I've just noticed the sub-title of your thread "Anyone wanna talk viola instead???"

Oh bosh! It's just nice to hear from you!

I don't find it discouraging, nor do I think it's a 'model' for everyone. Everyone's progress goes in different ways and there's no need to feel tempted to give it all up just 'cos one learner has had to back-track a bit! There's no saying that happens to everyone and there's also no saying that it's a bad thing when it does! I had to back-track when I started with a new teacher back in late July and I'm still not playing the standard of pieces that I was doing in June, but what I do play sounds much better and I don't mind it taking me longer to get back to where I was. It's just for fun anyway and I want to play well, so it's worth taking the time to work through rough patches. Don't take it so much to heart, Primrose, just try to enjoy it.

You're right of course. But I certainly don't enjoy it now, and don't expect to start enjoying it any time soon. I have to keep telling myself that I'll start enjoying it in a year or two. At the moment I'm not even convinced of that, and gummidge's post reinforces that doubt.

I'm here again I think there must be a secret violist in me trying to get out





primrose, I find playing in an ensemble harder - much harder - than playing solo. In fact I've given up ensembles for the time being because I was finding it discouraging too. I know there are techniques for improving one's playing in an ensemble (eg like just playing the first note of the bar and gradually building up from there), but the ensemble seemed to be playing so fast that I couldn't even follow the score with my eyes let alone my fingers, and I wasn't seeing any improvement I think most people find it difficult to play in an ensemble when they first start. If they're already at a high-ish level, then I think they gradually begin to join in more, but it's much more difficult at a lower level. I was grade 2 when I started, but even at grade 3 in one of the ensembles, it was still too low. That's why I'm going to concentrate on improving my technique first, and then maybe re-join an ensemble when I've improved generally.

What I'm trying to say is, if you're getting so discouraged that you want to give it up, it might be the ensemble that's the problem rather than the instrument Are you having individual lessons as well?

I do know what you mean - I've been in ensembles where the standard was too high for me, and soon dropped out. But everyone in my current ensemble is at the same stage as me, and I don't think I find it any harder than anyone else. We're all terrible! Yes, I'm having lessons too. But I think ensemble playing is intrinsically harder, at any level, because it's hard to correct your intonation if you're next to someone who is also out of tune ...

Go on, you know you want to.

What do you need to enjoy it again? What, to you, constitutes enjoyable playing? I was just thinking that you might want to think about your reasons for learning etc and try to find some new reason for enjoyment there. I know we all want to be able to play like the violists on the CDs within the first lesson or two, but I don't suppose anyone can and even those who do had to go through the same pain barrier as us!!!

I guess I just like playing, even if I'm doing something dull. I know it's something that's just for fun and just for me, so I don't really mind how low level or dull the piece is!

Now, did you say you were coming to Leeds? Maybe we should have a go at a viola duet (VERY simple one) if you are??


Yeah, I second that!!! I think clarinet and viola are highly compatible and there are some lovely trios with those two and piano - even Mozart wrote some. Actually, I often think of them as being similar in that they're both the mellow and somewhat 'muffled' sound in their section. If you compare a clarinet and a flute (and even an oboe to some degree), the sound is much mellower. Same with violin and viola. At the Leeds concert this year when the 2 ladies did the viola duet, my mum commented on how much more she liked the mellow sound and that I'd picked the right instrument. One day we'll play something together, Skyers!! Might have to adapt it, in fact, almost certainly will, but I'm sure it'll sound great.

What do you mean, "again"?! I just want to be able to play in an ensemble without being embarrassed at the noise I'm making. I don't care how simple the music is. I took up the viola because I got tired of practising the piano on my own and never seeing a soul except my teacher.
Gulp. Are you serious?

Another instrument that seems to go rather well with the viola is the guitar: see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ercHj808BpM. This is a steel-string guitar, but a classical one might sound even better.

Oh heavens.... I've just caught myself checking out the price of violas.....

Just a word of warning - around this area there is a serious glut of viola players! All the orchestras are desperate for violinists because they seem to be in short supply...

W

Hi Primrose!

Oh good, good. I was afraid you were getting so disheartened that you'd stopped enjoying playing. Glad to see that was wrong and that you're not packing in after all.

Duo at Leeds - was I serious? Yeah, why not? I'm only talking something out of a first level tutor book like 'Viola Time Joggers'. Katyjay and I did a violin/viola duo from that last time when I'd been playing only 4 months with about half the time being ill and no-one died of shock.

After I've done G5 theory in February, I'm planning to go on to learning how to arrange music. If you're up for it, I could ask my teacher if he could help me arrange a VERY simple piece for us to play. And with you being local, we could rehearse it as much as we need to



Well you did say words to the effect that you were fed up of playing on your own and you took up viola to play with other people

Um, yes I did, but ... <Tries desperately to think of an excuse>

Have you done any performing before?

Once, at an end of term concert, but that was in an ensemble (though I was the only viola).

I am a violist - not sure if I can still can myslef that seeing as I haven't done any practice recently and I have an exam comeing up.

Skyers me dear, that sounds ace! We could just adapt something from another easy piece for 2 or 3 instruments, transposing for us both!!!

How did your G4 theory go, BTW? Was thinking of you? 'Bout time I took a theory paper...... I'm thinking of doing G1 or G2 in March or June and G1 viola in June, but we'll see.

Primrose, you don't have to be an ace to play at a forums concert, believe me! I did it as a real fresher and even survived. Come to that, so did the audience!!

Just hope I can make the Leeds event, is it still for 31 May??

Yes, like I said in my PM, let's go for it! And you primmers!

Sounds good, I just might! Need to get a clearer idea of what difficulty I'll be able to cope with by then and, most importantly, if I'm even free to come before I commit, but I'm definitely interested.

I'll e-mail ya soon, hun!

I might too (if I haven't thrown my lovely viola out of the window in a rage before then). And if we both come, Elisabeth and I are doing a duet. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I won't take that personally, Primmers!!

It's not that bad though, honest! I'm sure you're heaps better than me and we'll do just fine with something simple and FUN! No-one's out to impress anyone, except with our courage!

You're quite right not to. It would still be scary (for the audience) even if you were Nobuko Imai.

They'll have heard FAR worse - believe me!

I started learning viola about 6 months ago....finding it difficult adjusting to the alto cleff still, since piano's my first instrument, at the moment i'm more playing by which line the note's on, rather than what note i'm actually supposed to be playing.

Yay! We have another violist in our midst!

Do you mean that you know which string and which finger position corresponds to a particular line of the stave, but not necessarily whether it's a C or a D or whatever? If so, I found the same at first. This works fine when you're only playing in one or two keys, but when you start playing in a lot of different keys it does help to know which note is which. And, when you get to the point where you need to know this, it's actually quite easy to do, even if you're more familiar with the treble and bass clefs. Try thinking of the top two lines of the alto clef as the bottom two lines of the treble, and the bottom two lines of the alto clef as the top two of the bass, with middle C smack in the middle - which is of course where it ought to be. Alto is the best of all possible clefs.

My initial solution was to transpose on the fly, eg: I saw what would have been a treble clef B and knew that meant it was a C. I found that worked initially, but later I had to get the alto clef working properly in my head.

If anyone is being disheartened think about this:
1) How many flute players do you know
2) How many flutes are there in an orchestra
3) How many viola players do you know
4) How many violas are there in an orchestra

I don't know anyone who plays either, unless you count the people in my violin/viola class and/or the people here. But I see what you mean. (I think.)

Ah, never thought of the alto clef like that, I'll try that out the next time I attempt to practise the viola. which probably won't be for a while due to mocks and that i just don't practise so much.

And i know that really if you just shift everything on the treble cleff down one line it's the same effect, but i always have to try and think whether it's down or up and i just make myself confused about it all the time.

it was an interesting experience though, after only a couple of months playing my teacher made me join the senior orchestra and play in Night On A Bare Mountain, with one other viola player. So I had to fake half of it by just placing fingers where i think they'd roughly go and play whatever....but then actually had to think about what to play when it came to the solo bits and the end where it divides into 3, leaving me playing notes i wasn't sure were right.

Many of the popular 'conversion schemes' for alto occured to me too, ie it's one note up from treble, but one octave lower etc, but in the end, I found that just learning it as it is, in context helped. So, as I learn to play a new note, I learn how to read it in alto clef. I won't say I've got it 100%, I don't put enough time and effort into either prac or theory for that thanks to work stress and resultant low energy resources, but it seems to be working just fine.

glad to see this thread is still going, and that Primrose hasn't given up , sorry about my postings, they are not meant to be discouraging, more a reflection of mylack of expertise, than general comments.
Just come back from a week working in London, which was very exciting professionally. Also managed to cram in; 2 string orchestra sessions and a viola lesson, which were all amazing. I'll be going to London again.
It'd be great to get together with any other violists , any chance of that in Jan or Feb of next year?
Meanwhile, there's lots of lovely Christmas music to play, and the orchestra concert in 3 weeks. Still can't manage the semi quaver passages in the Schubert, or the triplet sections in Finlandia, but one day, I might.
The alto clef , was a mystery at first and I tried every which way to learn it, and in the end, just got a book of folk viola music and played nothing else for a month until the clef became more familiar. I even stopped the piano for that month, just to concentrate on the alto clef. It seemed to work better for me, than relating notes on the alto clef to any other clef.
Hope to hear from you all soon. it's now cold and bright in the north west highlands, and the days are getting very short.

Not yet! Don't apologise - it's helpful to know what one can expect. I'd be interested in meeting up. Are you willing to say who you had a viola lesson with? By PM if you prefer ...
Sounds lovely. Would you like to swap homes?

I never saw your posts as discouraging, they're just honest. Really, a good range of experiences can be a whole lot more useful to someone in the earlier stages of learning that just one or two whiz-kids who passed DipAB at 13 and tell you it's a doddle! Gives a fairer, more balanced overview.

So, I'm back from a chaotic w/e in Scotland and looking forward to getting stuck into my viola prac again. Work finishes (some of it for good, yippee ) next week too for the winter hols, so I hope to finally make some real progress and be ready for the 3 duets I've got semi lined up for the next Leeds concert day!

As of today, I've started viola!!

I already play violin, so for the first half of my lesson today, my teacher did viola with me. At the moment I feel a bit swamped by such a big instrument (!) and it all feels a bit out of control, but I love the sound it makes. And the D string

Spent quite a while playing this evening... I can tell already that the clef is going to take a lot of work to get comfortable with, but I'm really up for it

Welcome to the viola club! You'll soon get the hang of it if you already play violin (so I'm told).
The C string is even better ...