Haven't posted in a while but after a disappointing visit to an exam centre this morning, my first thought was to turn to the forum for some support!

I had two good Grade 2 pupils sitting exams this morning. Pupil 2 was performing her pieces slightly better than pupil 1 so I had decided that Pupil 1 should go in for the earlier exam. This was an issue for the helper at the exam centre as they had Pupil 2 down on their paperwork as the earlier exam. This has never been an issue before!

While pupil 1 and I were in the practise room, having played through all pieces and a few scales, I was reminding Pupil 1 of the terms that would be covered for the fourth aural test and the key signatures that might come up in sight reading etc and giving her a bit of a pep talk when the helper chapped the door and said "if you're not using the piano come out and someone else can get in". I was extremely annoyed at this interruption. I was lead to believe the pupil was entitled to use of the practise room whilst the prior exam was in progress, regardless of whether the pupil wanted to play the piano or sit quietly. Particularly important I think when the waiting room is full of anxious strangers.

So pupils 1 and 2 sat their exams. Both had sat Grade 1 about a year to 18 months ago and both are 12 years old. Both well prepared and quite confident before leaving the practise room.

Pupil 1 came out and said she thought she did ok, made a few mistakes. She said the examiner wasn't as friendly as the previous examiner.

Pupil 2 came out and promptly burst into tears saying she had messed it up. Once I had calmed her down and spoken to both, it transpired that the examiner made no effort whatsoever to put the girls at ease, had audibly sighed when there was a false start during one of the scales, when Pupil 2 requested a few seconds to work out the notes of a minor scale (Pupil 2 understands the theory behind the harmonic minor scales and her mind went blank so asked for a few seconds to work out the relative major & sharpened 7th) the examiner responded with "work it out?! Yes I suppose so!". Not helpful at all.

These pupils had sat a Grade 1 exam with a gentleman examiner who had asked how they were, if they were nervous, and had a brief dialogue with each between pieces to ask what they were playing next. Today's examiner seems to have found out the 3 selected pieces and simply barked out the title of the piece she wanted to hear next.

I'm left feeling worried that the marks these girls receive will not fairly reflect their abilities and feeling guilty that I have subjected them to such a horrible experience! One of the pupils said she felt like crying shortly before attempting the sight reading. I was lead to believe examiners would try to put pupils at ease and make them feel comfortable, and even try to encourage correct answers during aural tests etc.

Not sure whether I can justify entering either of these pupils, or any of my others for that matter, for a grade exam again!!

Its always worth ringing the board if something like this happens. They may be able to help you, and I have always found their staff courteous. What a horrid experience for you, and especially for your poor 2nd candidate. how traumatic. After the phone call they'll probably ask you to put things in writing, but you will be guided in what to say by the telephone call.

Whilst I think it is highly preferable that examiners put their candidates at ease and treat them kindly, it is a fact of life that some will not be like this.
To be honest, children have to get used to performing under bad conditions: what will happen if they have been used to grandad-like examiners for years and then get someone horrible when it really matters, i.e. for competitions, auditions etc? Even in life generally, I feel that people should know how to deal with these sorts of situations.
This is not to say that I'm not sympathetic; of course it is never nice to have an experience like that. In an ideal world everyone would be lovely. But in my opinion there is not a lot you can do now but show the girls that such experiences are a learning curve of life and need to be dealt with accordingly.

Yes I agree I think. My grade five examiner was like this - I actually did end up crying, but once I'd left the exam. She was a very harsh marker too, I think... but I still think that experiencing that sort of thing has helped me - next exam I won't expect as much reassurance from examiners as I have in the past.

Might be a tad contraversial of me to say, but... shouldn't examiners with attitudes such as the one described be raked over the coals for this? Surely it takes a lot of training to become an examiner, and they know not all pupils are the same and some will be really nervous. Isn't it their JOB to put children at ease as well as mark them fairly? I'd be a bit miffed...

I think it is their job to try to put them at ease and encourage the best performance and I'm sure I've read this in ABRSM literature!! Will have to double check what it says in "These Exams".

Both are very friendly and polite girls and have probably never encountered this kind of frosty approach and I think it only made them more nervous.

Yes, I agree with aspiringmusicteacher.

The claim in the advice for exam candidates to "remember the examiner wants you to do well" rings a bit hollow when you hear of experiences like this.

Claire83, I hope your pupils are not put off by this!

Claire83, the Board were really helpful when I contacted them after the last session.
I do try to prepare my pupils for grumpy examiners (I've had a few as an examinee) but I think they should be taken in for more training if they are off putting to candidates.
If you contact the board and there have been concerns raised by other teachers, maybe they'll look into it.

Only one thing to add.... when I did my piano Gr 1... my first exam as an adult , I had a really grumpy, almost rude examiner. He gave me a wonderful mark. I think he was quite generous.
My girls do dancing as well as music exams and often nice as pie examiners can appear to be mean markers!!!

However, it still isn't ok to make young people feel uneasy.

There are nice people in this world and horrible people in this world- it's always just unfortunate when you get a bad examiner, and I had a few during my Grade exams.

Of course there were nice examiners too - the gentleman I had for Grade 5 was wonderful, he even 'cheated' a bit during the Aural:

"Was that in 2 time or 3 time?"

"Erm...2 time?"

*cough* "...sorry!?"

"3 time!"

*nod*

That probably gave me the extra mark to get my Merit. Maybe not entirely professional, but it made my day.

The only way that an examiner who is intimidating pupils can be retrained is to report him to the board. It's not just your pupils marks at stake ies all the other candidates he examins. I'm sure given how Clara Taylor has turned around the image of the ABRSM she would want to be made aware of this. There is a general principle at stake here. Not just the case of one weepy pupil.

'Fraid I disagree with those of you saying 'that's life, they have to get used to it'. It's just downright *rudeness* to sigh when someone makes a mistake, or to make comments in a sarcastic way, etc. I don't think we can expect all examiners to be friendly, bouncy, lovely people if that's not in their personality, but we should expect them to be civil.

I wonder if this examiner would have acted like that if she had been examining an adult?

You should read the criteria on the application form! This is unacceptable.

Er, sorry? What is unacceptable?

The examiner's behaviour.

Well two weeks into the exam period and examiner problems are here again!!

Daughter had an exam today, we arrived 15 mins early, she hadn't got her coat off before they were asking her to go into the exam room. The Steward and the Examiner came into the Practice room, she barely had time to go to the toilet let alone warm up her Flute. The examiner was fine with her in the exam room he was just in a bit of a hurry. Infact he had the second candidate in about 2 mins after her appointment time.

You should report the examiner - yes, I know examiners have a hard job and it can probably get a little tiring (he/she might also not be feeling well etc.) but I still think they should "act" friendly and reassuring even if they don't feel it. I always tell my pupils the examiner is on their side - and clearly that one wasn't...... I think it's mean to treat young, nervous candidates in that way. To be an examiner, you also have to have teaching experience - whatever happened to the patient attitude that teachers should have towards their pupils? I would have thought it's even more important in an exam situation! I dread to think how that examiner teaches her pupils if she's like that with others......

Absolutely. The nicest examiner I ever had failed me on every single section!

Liz

I know that you will meet horrible people sometimes but in some jobs aren't you supposed to deliver customer service, although I know exams are slightly different from that. What I am trying to say is that isn't there some jobs you really should not be doing if you don't have the right personality. I do not think this examiner's behaviour is acceptable as by sighing he is almost letting you know his negative personal feelings.

Pupils pay to enter exams - and they aren't cheap. We should get value for money. That is to say we should get a polite and fair listening ear.

In my view it is part of an examiner's job to make it possible for every candidate to give of their best. The mark scheme should be firmly adhered to, the candidate should feel welcome. Any spoken comments should be calm and encouraging. Written comments should be helpful. Otherwise there is not much point in doing an exam. And it doesn't cost much to smile at a child.

I have been fortunate. Over the years down here I have had many very pleasant exxaminers and most of the time my pupils come out of the exam room smiling. On the whole the marks have been fair and round about what I estimated. I did have one examiner who was neither unpleasant nor incompetent but he gave me the impression he was only in this to get a trip to France and he wasn't really interested in what he was doing.

I always tell my pupils that the examiners do this work because they are interested in young musicians and like to help them to impove their music making. I hope I can continue to do this in good faith.

I would have had the same reaction as Claire83, under the same circumstances.

I was under the impression that all AB exam centres had a practice room. My students take their exams in Durham and always get the chance to have a last practice before their exams, although I wouldn't call the rooms luxurious...

I had a student who took Grade 3 piano in the Spring and when she used the pedal in her 3rd piece she found that it was very difficult to press down and it also made a noise. This was unsettling for her, of course, but it was made much worse by the examiner sighing audibly! I felt indignant on her behalf, although she did get a distinction. I find this sort of thing quite unacceptable from a presumably experienced examiner.

I've never had a practice room either - It's just a case of have a quick warm up of a scale or two before going in.

Forgot to mention in my earlier message, the previous examiner for both students knew the order my pupils were going to perform and greeted them with

"hello Katie, how are you today? Not too nervous I hope?".

Today's grade 2 examiner simply said

"are you Katie?".

I think the big issue here is that I believe the examiner caused both pupils to feel more nervous and uneasy. Never mind making them feel comfortable - sighing and making comments like "work it out?!" have the opposite effect.

Having spoken with both sets of parents this evening, the girls don't seem to be put off by the experience and will sit exams again. The parents have also said that they know the girls were well prepared and if the mark is poor that's simply a reflection of a nervous performance on the day and not a reflection of their abilities. Let's just hope that everyone is happy when the results arrive and the memory of this 'horrible examiner' won't affect any future performances.

It's funny because I don't remember any examiner ever asking how I was or making those sorts of pleasantries! As far as I was aware they were there to do a job and apart from "hello" and then "thank you" at the end of my pieces, I didn't expect much else.

They all seemed perfectly civil, but mostly it was just a smile and a quick greeting before getting on with business.

I think examiners must be great at poker...no matter how much I try to read into their faces on the way out they give nothing away

I've never encountered any sort of rudeness from an examiner though. It's always worth checking with the kids exactly how something was said etc... Maybe the examiner saying "work it out?" was said in a tone of surprise and not meant to be cross for example. It could have caught them off guard as it's not usual for someone to ask to work out a scale in an exam (I think!) and they didn't know whether to should allow it or not?

Obviously if the children were upset it should be checked out, but I like to look at things from all angles!

I was never used to having a practise room either, although the current centre here has a practise piano.

I agree - and I have very close contact with our examiners, as I've had Visits for years and accompany all my recorder and clarinet pupils. The norm after I have introduced each candidate by name (as stewards are required to do) is a smile and a hello, and the usual invitation to get settled and to say what they will be playing. In other words, it's pretty much straight to business - even one minute spent chatting to each candidate on non-essential topics would mean that the schedule would be awry from quite early on!

I also agree about the 'work it out?' comment - I too would be taken aback if I was examining and someone asked to do that! When the exams run to such a tight schedule there is very little leeway, and I would imagine that the examiner would have immediately wondered how long that 'working-out' was going to take - and would also been very surprised that someone should ask to do this in the actual exam!

Also, I have to say that if we had the luxury of a warm-up room (we don't - my pupils have to warm up before they arrive) and someone was just sitting in there not playing while others might be wanting to have a go, as the steward I would feel perfectly justified in asking them to leave that room and return to the general waiting area.

I reckon the fact that your two candidates are quite happy to continue with exams in the future indicates that things weren't quite so awful as they initially said.

When I was stewarding in Norway once, the examiner told me that he liked to come out of the room into the waiting area to greet each candidate and walk with them into the exam room. I was very surprised (and probably a little worried about timings!) but he insisted that he liked to work that way and that it helped to put the candidates at their ease. He was a much respected, very experienced examiner and was one of the nicest examiners I've ever worked with. Of course, it worked like a charm and made for a very relaxed, happy exam session. And no, I don't remember any big timing problems!

QUOTE(jenny @ Nov 17 2007, 09:36 AM)

When I was stewarding in Norway once, the examiner told me that he liked to come out of the room into the waiting area to greet each candidate and walk with them into the exam room. I was very surprised (and probably a little worried about timings!) but he insisted that he liked to work that way and that it helped to put the candidates at their ease. He was a much respected, very experienced examiner and was one of the nicest examiners I've ever worked with. Of course, it worked like a charm and made for a very relaxed, happy exam session. And no, I don't remember any big timing problems!

There are some GREAT guys and girl examiners out there. Worth remembering that.

I had a lovely man walk my mega-anxious and Aspergers student back to the waiting room so he could tell us how well he had played. It was only a Prep Test so there wasn't anything to give away but that simple act meant that the student now thinks exams are friendly experiences!

Our Music Serice always has the same examiner, for their own certs, and until she got used to him my daughter found him a bit un-nerving. Mainly because he was always asking about her other instruments. Now they are like old friends, not that she sees much of him as it's mainly AB exams that she takes.

I did my grade 1 with LCM when I was 8 or 9, and the examiner was huffing and sighing through my pieces and after the scales was muttering "fine..." in the most bored way imaginable - granted, I was the last exam of the day. I got 91/100 (I think) though, and I was surprised because I thought he'd hated my playing!

There's always been a practise room but with a digital, and in my grade 5 the piano had a squeaky pedal which put me off a bit. Would it be unprofessional for the examiner to tell the candidates that the pedal squeaks? I'm not asking that in a nasty way, but out of interest - is it deemed as a part of the performance aspect, carrying on regardless etc, or if the examiner knew that it was a squeaky pedal, would it be acceptable for them to tell the candidate?

I always find the exam pianos disappointing - maybe because I'm not used to Bostons, but I always find it a lot harder to get the dynamic range I'm used to because I feel they've got a much heavier action. But not the end of the world!

Not only acceptable but I think that they ought to tell you.
I've had examiners warn about the peculiarity of the pedals on the piano at the start of exams and then let me try it out.

As a steward for ABRSM exams I perhaps do see things from a different angle, but saying that, if pupils were coming out of an examination visibly upset - by this I mean more than one, I would certainly mention this to the HLR, who has to complete a questionnaire about the examiner after the visit, and I would expect this to be mentioned.

As regards the practise room - you are lucky to have one - over 70% of centres haven't got this facility, I perhaps would have approached you tactfully and suggested a quiet corner somewhere where you could put your pupil at ease, but at the same time freeing the practice piano. I do appreciate that this would be in an ideal world.

Have you considered changing the exam centre? Its worth a longer journey or the inconvenience if you and your pupils felt at ease and more comfortable somewhere different.

Please don't be put off by one bad experience, there are lots of very nice examiners around - good luck!

All three examiners have been super so far. I'm hoping tomorrow's is just as lovely, and manages to get there through the snow
Bev.

That's really reassuring from a teacher's point of view. Knowing that the stweard will mention things to the HLR if he/she thinks something is amiss is a real comfort. Not that it would stop me from ensuring that as a teacher I represented my candidates properly to the right division of the board too. I wouldn't necesarily wan t the examiner sacked, but retraining is needed, then the head's up is the only way the board is going to know there's an issue.