I am still planning on splitting the class into half after Christmas. And I'm still thinking of shortening them to half an hour instead of an hour. But today, with the 20 kids I told you all about a couple of weeks ago, I've reached the end of my tether, and I'm really upset. It started well, I got the kids to be quiet and sit down and do what they were told. Then I asked them to split into two groups for a team activity, and they totally lost it. I tried for 40 mins out of an hour lesson to calm them down, I used every trick in the book, and they totally ignored me and carried on screaming, shouting, hitting and complaining. I couldn't take it anymore and I screamed at them to sit down, and I just hit a brick wall... I just felt numb and walked out of the class and had to get another teacher to come in and sort them out. In the end I told them to go to their parents and tell them because they were naughty I'd send them home 10mins early. The parents came in and some wre really sympathetic, saying 'I dont know how you deal with this' or 'if there's anything I can do'... but I am seriously doubting my ability as a teacher now. I mean, asking someone else to come in and discipline your class??? Having parents watching me as I send them out because I can't take them any more? How bad does that make me?

I spend hours planning lessons and making things fun, but we got NOTHING done today because they ran rings round me. I totally lost control of the situation and I just hit a wall in my mind, I just didn't want to cope with them anymore and I didn't know how to recover them. I spoke to the lady I spoke to last week, and she said that she thought it was because I made the wrong impression on the first day; that I made it too much fun and didn't set ground rules, so they are pushing me as far as I can go until I snap. I don't want to keep doing this. And the weird thing is that the KS2 classes I run I have glowing praise from the kids and the parents, they give comments to my boss like 'where did you find her?' and 'my child loves the classes, she's a miracle worker'. So what on earth is going wrong here? I'm so upset over this I just don't know what to do and goodness knows what the parents think of me!!! Do I face facts? Am I just not good enough to be a teacher? I don't exactly like disciplining children, and to tell you the truth I don't really know how. What do I do?

I'm not a teacher, and don't know anything about teaching 20 children in a class. However, the first quote above makes me answer your question: yes, you are good enough to be a teacher.

Hopefully some of the teachers on this site will be able to help you with specifics of how to deal with this situation. Good luck.

I completely understand how you feel - although thankfully i'm not dealing with such a large group! In September I started working as a Peri for a music service and I took over some piano students who had been learning for about a year previously with a different service. In my first few lessons I feel I acted far too friendly with the children, which hasn't been a problem with the individual lessons, but when it comes to the group lessons I find I'm constantly trying to make up for my lack of discipline at the start. Thankfully, with smaller groups it is that much easier to control the situation however I do have moments when all i'm doing is constantly trying to get these children to sit down still and listen and I get very embarrassed that the adminstration staff who work opposite can hear the fact that I find it difficult to control them.

Most weeks I feel inadequate as a teacher and worry if i'm not any good when I teach these classes but then I think about all the students I have who are doing wonderfully and behave well and i'm starting to realise that not every class and every student is going to be the same and gradually i'm beating myself up less about it each week! As you said you get highly praised for your other classes so try not to become too disheartened by it and as i'm learning disciplining children becomes easier all the time - when I act confident about it, it shows to the children and they challenge me less.

I'm not sure if any of that rambling will really help but I wanted to share my experiences and sympathy with you!

Sarah

Whatever you do don’t despair!!

Can I just ask how you asked them to split into two groups ? Did you just something like “Now I want you to divide into 2 groups”? That is a perfectly civilised way to ask perfectly civilised people to do what you want. However, with this type of class you have to be a sergeant major. They sound as if they are incapable of organising themselves and to be perfectly honest I wouldn’t expect even a reasonably well behaved class of juniors that I knew well to split into 2 groups without me “managing” the manœuvre.

Do you know their names yet? You have to be able to pick on one or two ring leaders by name. It is worth spending time on learning names. It is worth spending time on discipline.

I don’t know if any of the following suggestions will help but here are some of the things I might do in a similar situation.

Line them up outside the classroom and tell them they are going to behave properly or they will be punished. (Have a punishment ready –something good and old fashioned like 50 lines to be done in playtime and signed by their class teacher or parent. Keep the lines and keep a record – and double the number if they offend next week – or give 50 to the first offender, 75 to the following and so on) It’s
boring and it’s uneducational but it works!

If they don’t enter the room and sit down quietly make them line up again. I have practised the right way to enter a classroom with many classes. You don’t usually have to do it more than three times.

Don’t ask them to divide into groups. of their own accord. Indicate the two spaces you want the groups to occupy and pick the children by name one at a time and send them to their place. If necessary appoint a leader to survey the group. Pick a bossy child who is capable of doing this.

Actually I would be inclined to avoid group activities until they are better behaved.

Can you give them written work of any kind? For example tracing a treble clef sign in different coloured felt tips. It doesn’t matter how boring it seems. You won’t get anywhere with this lot until they are obedient and attentive so I would forget the quality music teaching and concentrate on simple, quiet, non moving about activities until things improve. Keep everything very very simple - not just the musical content but the actual requests you make of them in terms of classroom management. Break everything down into very simple components. One thing at a time – even if it means you feel you aren’t actually teaching. You can’t teach if they are not in a teachable frame of mind.

I don’t know if you are used to class teaching but people who are not are often surprised and disheartened by the mob effect. Some classes are marvellous from the start and others need to be treated very toughly. It is hard and difficult but it usually brings them round in the end. They will feel more secure if you are very firm (. You say you don’t like disciplining children. Don’t be fooled by them – they actually like a bit of discipline.)

I learnt the hard way in a London comprehensive after seven years in a delightful middle class junior school. I came home in tears every day the first week and after the Head of Year said to me “Do you know what to do when they fight?” (it never occurred to me that children fought in school ) I nearly had a nervous breakdown. Then a friend said “Sharpen your repartee with the cheeky ones and don’t try to teach anything until you have got them into the classroom quietly and politely – and never lose your sense of proportion or your sense of humour.” It was good advice

However awful they are you also have to love them – and that can be very hard. Don’t let them get at your self esteem. You are doubtless as good a teacher as any of us. You probably want desperately to do lots of nice things with them and they are obviously not yet ready. You’ll get them in the end!! They are, after all, only inexperienced little human beings who don’t yet know what is good for them.

The person you spoke to is right in that first impressions make an enormous impact and that it is best to be over strict at the beginning and ease up later. However, that is all very well for next year (or your next new class) but not much use for the situation you are in right now.

You need to find something to do which will make it clear to them that you are in charge. I was a language teacher, not a music teacher so I'm not sure if my suggestions are going to be that practical but they may give you some ideas.

In next week's lesson I would try and do something totally different to what you have done before. With a bit of luck this will catch them off guard and avoid them falling into their usual pattern. I think it is important not to do anything which involves an element of competition (so no team games) as those sorts of activities tend to generate excitement with that age group and excitement is what you want to avoid. I think I might also avoid using the recorder until near the end of the lesson.

How about bringing in some music for them to listen to at the beginning of the lesson. Have them listen to it sitting down (or even lying down) and with their eyes closed (eyes closed is very important to stop them looking at each other and getting the giggles). Choose some calm music (at least the first time). When they have finished listening you could ask them to suggest words they associate with the music and/or colours. If you think a verbal activity could get out of hand, ask them to draw a picture of it instead. (If you do want to get them to draw, make sure you have all the material ready to hand).

How about chanting a sentence with them and you direct the dynamics with your hand. When you lower your hand they have to whisper it, as you raise your hand they gradually say it louder, when you clap your hands they stop. This way you can do gradual dynamics or (by clapping your hands between up/down gestures) go suddenly from piano to forte (or vice versa). My daughters did this in their primary school and both loved it.

As other people have probably told you, don't make threats that you can't carry out. Don't start by making a reference to this week's lesson, act as if you expect things to go smoothly. More generally, never hesitate when you are asked a question, just answer something with conviction and don't worry (for the time being) if you accuse the wrong child of being the source of mayhem.

Good Luck.

I've not read the other posts yet. I think the way forward now is to take the initiative with this group. Can you insist that they line up in silence before they come into the room and anyone that doesn't can't take part in the class for that day. DO IT don't just threaten. If you can explain to the parents that's what's going to happen. Set the ground rules now. Tell them you wanted to be nice but you realise they can't work with a friendly teacher so now you've turned into a dragon.

Plan a reward system for those who behave. Stickers work very well for all ages. Get the support of their class teachers. The children are young you can turn this around! It's not going to be easy children generally are not used to sitting, waiting, taking turns that's not your fault.

Sometimes the easy part of teaching is getting information across. Delivery is the hard part, especially iof you've had little teaching experience and no teacher training. It can still be done you just have to win their respect. It's alot harder now then when I was thrown in at the deep end.

Good luck!

I faced a class of 18 Year One children yesterday as part of a job interview at a prep school. As soon as they were led into the room by the class assistants I registered that this age group would prove to be very different to children I used to teach 20 years ago. There was more noise and movement and a general feeling that it would take a lot to hold their attention.

Thanks to Cyrilla's course the other day I knew how to start the lesson and the class were all agog for about 10 minutes while they were all sitting in front of me - I chose to sit up above them on a chair where i could see everyone and observe, smile and acknowledge their efforts. I used my shoes to demonstrate high (high heels) and low (flatties-though it took a while for them to find the word 'low' shoes!). I then taught them a song and used Cyrilla's heartbeat idea to teach pulse - all was calm, quiet and the children were absorbed and listening.......

TRANSITIONS ARE DANGEROUS - as Aquarelle says even getting them into a circle needs a high level of class management. If you get it wrong (I did by being too gentle - these are lively 5 and 6 year olds not a babies class) chaos will ensue - or bordering on. Luckily I got them back by suddenly announcing that I was singing the words wrong - it went so quiet you could hear a pin drop - and a bright little girl called out 'its See-Saw UP and down'. Okay she was learning something!

Thankfully the class assistants didn't have to intervene in a big way. I thought I had ruined my chances of the job - time will tell - but the interview afterwards went reasonably well. I evaluated the lesson immediately and said what I would do next time etc etc.

It's hard but try and have the courage to concentrate on just one thing - say pulse- in a lesson. Have a beginning, a middle learning session and you must have a plenary - repeat the beginning to check learning.

Make your instructions very very clear to the children and they should respond. It is very hard - try not to be discouraged.

aspiringmusicteacher, you have my sympathy. It's awful when it all goes wrong - I've been there. Excellent advice in the posts above. Group work sounds a good thing and is based on good educational principals, but it is VERY hard to make work well unless you have full control of the class. Especially with this age group. If it were me I wouldn't even attempt it.

Not everyone is good at teaching every age group. If you are doing well with the Juniors that's great. Don't worry about finding infants hard - lots of secondary school teachers wouldn't be able to cope with Juniors, let alone Infants. I have great admiration for Infant teachers - personally I can't imagine anything worse than 30 5 and 6 year olds all and every day (my own two are more than enough!)

Maybe you'll decide never to take on an infant class again. Maybe you'll learn how to do it and find you can cope quite well after all. But whatever happens in the future, don't give up now. Keep smiling (although not too much at the children!), plan low-risk activities, and be very firm with your boundaries. I can't remember if it's mentioned above, but a "time out" chair in the corner (preferably out of sight of the others) for naughty children can work. But don't use it as a last resort or you'll be wanting to put everyone on it. If you put someone there for a slight misdemeanor early on it will show the class you are serious about this.

I hope you manage a calmer lesson next time. Discipline is much harder work than teaching!

I feel so angry and sorry on your behalf. How could the school management (supposedly composed of experienced educationalists) knowingly create such a situation for you? 20 reception age children, armed with recorders, for one hour at the end of the day, with an inexperienced teacher ... it's mind-blowingly incompetent management and irresponsible to both you and tha children.
You've had lots of good advice here and i hope it's helping. But people have to train for 4 years to teach for a reason ... maybe it would help if you directed your feelings into anger at those who should have known better, and tell them so loud and clear.
All the best, fumingly.

Do you have a whiteboard or OHP which you can use like a whiteboard?

When I had a class of Year 1s to cope with I varied the activities, and found that having something like a board to focus on (I think we made lists of sounds we could hear among other things) made the lesson seem like "other" lessons where they sat in class and were expected to "work" - music being a fun thing and not like work at all!!!!

I think you might have to change tack abruptly, and become the non-smiling teacher (I'm sure you felt like that last lesson) for a few lessons. When I had unruly children to whom I had given several warnings I asked them to stand at the back of the hall (I was working in a hall which was worse than a classroom for discipline) and they stayed there until the class teacher came to fetch the class, so that she could then see that they had misbehaved. By keeping them at the back - ie not sending them out, they were still "benefitting" from the lesson (except that they were not inclined to listen).

Good luck. The very fact that you are giving good lessons to your older age groups means you are a good teacher so please don't despair.

Sometimes being over-polite can seem like you asking rather than telling. "Sit down" has more impact that "Please sit down", which sounds to a child as if they don't have to do it.

In drama I learned how to carry my voice properly without sounding like I was just shouting, even though my usual voice is extremely soft. That's fine for one to one teaching, but I think I'd have to take on a completely different persona to deal with so many kids at once!

Again, you have had some excellent advice.

One of the first things I learned was to be tough at first and show you mean business, then you can relax a bit afterwards - never the other way round! This means it is now extra difficult for you but dorfmouse is right, it's very bad management on the part of the school and the head/music co-ordinator should be supporting you in this.

This sort of scenario is not uncommon with after-school clubs that are not run by one of the school's regular teachers. I remember a French club where the teacher only had about 6-8 children (aged 5-9) and they just ran riot completely.

It may even be that you have reached the point where you tell the head/music co-ord that you cannot do this any more without things changing - either the length of lesson/number of children/support re discipline or all three. Find out what the discipline policy is in the school as children respond well to consistency. The children have to know that there will be consequences for bad behaviour.

I have a very 'lively' Year 2 class at the moment - lots of gorgeous children and a very bright and musical class, but a significant number who are very immature behaviour-wise - so both their class teacher and myself are really cracking down on them hard. I warned them that ANY stepping out of line meant that they go back to their classroom and missing out on our games - and there have now been a few weeks when that has happened and they're getting the message! It has to be - warning then follow through with the promised consequence of the bad behaviour. It is impossible for any real quality learning to take place if the children are behaving badly.

Busy Bee is right (btw, glad your interview lesson went well !) in that changes of activity can be 'dangerous'. Teaching children to make a circle is an art in itself!

Best of luck and keep us updated.

Cyrilla has said ALL I was going to say and she has given you excellent advice.

Do have serious chat with whoever has sorted out the timetabling, and be very sure of the school's behaviour policy - and use it!

Ex middle school teacher sticking nose in here - mob rule can be very scary. After all - you're the teacher, they're the little people. I started off in a new post teaching year 7, 35 minutes per class, after PE on a Friday afternoon - dreadful!
A couple of tricks I used when I taught music all day (classes of 32 ish, year 4-7) - ages are largely irrelevant.

When they're cuasing choas, count to 5 loudly and slowly - after a while (it might take a few goes) by 5 they should be sitting down - ready for the next bit. Ususally one will realise what's going on and that feeds through - even it's simple curiousity.
Interupt bad behavious with a short, simple game: find a tambourine/triangle and how ever many beats/tings is the number of body bits they need to have on the floor. Gets them thinking and quiet.
Same thing - but they have to work with other people ie. in pairs, have 3 bits on the floor.

Don't know if you've tried anything similar - sorry for sounding preachy if you have - everyone has different methods. Have you tried WOW (worker of week) or beads in a jar (bit like Hogwarts...)

Good luck - and stick with it - you will have some fabulous memories
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