Rather than go into a whole diatribe, which I tend to do on this forum, I thought I'd just ask the simple question; what do you all, as teachers, think it takes to be a successful group music teacher? I'm new to it, I started teaching one-to-one first, but group teaching is a whole new ball game. How to keep things fun, fast paced and make sure they are learning something at the same time....!

I'm sure any thoughts you have would be interesting to everyone, please jot them down here! Thanks!

A whip!

W

A good sense of humour, patience.. and yes.. a whip :]

Forward planning, structure, crowd control skills and, when all else fails, a big BIG stick

Bag x

Experience.

Some people may have natural "crowd control" skills; if you don't they will come with time. You will gradually discover what works and what doesn't. There are things you will try once and think never again (including things suggested in lesson plans by other teachers). Other activities will almost work and you will know just what little changes to make for them to work perfectly second time around and a few activities will be brilliant and you will immediately know that you are going to be doing that activity every year with every class.

While gathering experience it is important to remain sane. As a language teacher I used to use music to unwind at the end of a stressful day during my first year of teaching. Make sure you find something which will allow you to de-stress.

Slow-paced activities or just a quiet time with the children sitting down, from my experience so far, could offer an opportunity for more effective teaching than loads of activities on the go all the time. I've observed a class where the teacher stopped all movement to tell the children a story which they could illustrate later with music and it is very important to sometimes stop and ask the children questions about what they have learnt and why. Always ask for hands up to stop them all calling out at once. Children love to be first to answer! You can delay things a bit by being very selective about who to choose - you should have their attention then!

How big is your group? And is this teaching music to a whole class or teaching a group of pupils to play an instrument?

Well, it's instrumental teaching really, but I suppose that it also applies to class teaching too, in a Primary context especially. I'm not very good with crowd control and I think this is my problem. And also assessing mixed ability classes, like when some can read music and others can't....... that sort of thing.

This is excellent advice! There is no need to go ######-for- leather the whole time, you will be exhausted and the kids will get over excited...downtime, or calm activities are important.

From the teacher's point of view I think important qualities are: patience, a sense of humour and mainly the ability to withstand an element of organised chaos! Kids having group instrumental or music lessons of any kind are unlikely to sit in total silence.

Don't feel you need to be 110% fun at all times, calm and quiet is good too.

'Calm and quiet' and 'fun' are not mutually exclusive terms!

And never confuse 'pace of lesson' with 'frenetic activity'!

Will post more later - a bit bug-eyed with tiredness atm .

I suppose by fun I meant running about madly!!!

Actually I find, if your group is smallish (8 or less) 2 minutes of 'how are you all' at the beginning often calms things down. Or if you are singing a song on a certain topic, asking about it can make for a good atmosphere...for example when singing "10 fat sausages" with my littlies, we all said what our favourite dinner with sausages was, or when singing about a cat the kids told me whether or not they had a pet. That little bit of banter creates a nice relaxed sense of trust too, they know you are interested.

I think that can make a big difference to younger kids especially.

How big are your groups AMT?

Biggest is 20, least is 7 (increasing to 10 after Christmas). It's the big one I don't seem to be getting on well with.... well, that's not what I mean actually, I think there is a lack of balance in my teaching and a lack of respect from the pupils. Just wondering what other people thought would make a difference in terms of group teaching as I'm new to it all!

In a big group like that I find two things very useful for discipline:

Never raise your voice. Children will just shout louder! If something resembling pandemonium (spelling!?) ensues, starting counting to five slowly in a clear voice. This often has two effects; kids get a bit confused (what on earth is teacher at!?) and start listening to you and also many kids these days are disciplined at home by the if you dont start behaving by the count of 5...It seems to work wonders. You will also feel immediately calmer and more in control if you are not yelling!

Find the ringleaders and when they start misbehaving give them three warnings. After number three simply say, "Ok Johnny I want you to sit over there for a moment" and send the child to a chair outside of the group for two or three minutes. The child stays in the room (supervised and all that) and by you calmly excluding him like that he learns who is in charge. You may have to do it several times at first but eventually the kids will be so scandalised at the thought of sitting out of the group most will immediately behave better!

The most important piece of advice is to try to like all the kids, even the apparently evil ones! If you have to chastise someone try to find something they are doing right and praise them. Even if its not behaving disgracefully for ten minutes or something! Any little effort! It makes for a calmer atmosphere and generally kids like to be praised for something! Give a dog a bad name and all that...

Try not to let the kids see you feeling frazzled, easier said than done I know, but it does turn into a power struggle then. If you have had trouble thus far, just take a huge deep breath before the next class and go in and be more hard-nosed! If they are acting the maggot the whole time, its discipline they need Im afraid!

(Sorry for lack of apostrophes, stupid keyboard has gone bonkers!!!!)

The dynamics of crowd control are completely different with 7 and with 20 (and again with 30). I used to find that somewhere between 14 and 20 (and again between 25 and 30) things changed a great deal. Things that work with 7 pupils are not going to work in the same way with 20 (even leaving aside the difference of age).

Something else I've just thought of. Keep your instructions simple. Tell them one thing at a time and use sentences that have no connecting words (ie avoid saying "do x and then do y.") When you have given your instructions ask one of the pupils to explain to the others what they have to do. This enables you to see if they have understood or not and avoids the danger of them never listening to you the first time because they know you will say it a second (a third or even a fourth time).

As others have said dropping your voice to a whisper has much more effect than shouting; as does suddenly sitting down if you are usually teaching standing.

Perhaps it would be even more effective to count from 5 to 1 (although be prepared for someone to shout "blast off!" or similar after the 1...). Make sure you leave a sufficient pause between each number though, and don't be afraid to praise those who ARE doing the right thing.

If you're really serious about learning about behaviour management you could try reading some of Bill Rogers' books; they focus on classroom teaching but are nevertheless really helpful and relevant. Also, ask the school(s) that you teach in what their sanction / reward systems are - using them means that the kids know exactly where they are with you and what they are expected to do; also you will instantly look like a teacher who knows what they are doing (plus you don't have to spend ages making up your own list of sanctions!) I teach in one particular school that uses red and yellow cards to sanction pupils (yellow card = warning, red = comes after one yellow, usually means dire consequences of staying in at breaktime or similar). The school is fully in support of our team of teachers using the red and yellow cards, although having given a few yellows to pupils last year I haven't had to give any to the new class we teach this year, obviously our reputation now precedes us! There are 36 in this class by the way - all with instruments!

Sorry if this is a bit garbled - combination of a head cold and a frantic week! Good luck!

Eyes in the back of your head would be very useful

Seriously though, crowd control without laying a finger on the pupils is an essential skill. Doing anything that keeps a childs short attention span while being able to assess the skills of 6 pupils all in one go and re-arrange teaching groups on a week by week basis if necessary.

Oooh! I've just thought of another to go with the 'simple instructions' idea. Rather than saying "Sit down" or whatever, try saying "Look at how beautifully x is sitting, can we all try to sit like that?" This can also be a good way of making a shy or underconfident kid feel better about themselves. Although try not always to pick on the same child, as it then looks a bit like favourites.

You'll get it...you pick up lots of little tricks over the years that work for you. Starting out is always the worst part of any new job!

Whenever I was singled out like this in a class in primary school, I hated the fact that all the attention was drawn to me.
I was bullied anyway, and my good behavior being pointed out made my peers call me many things.. you know; geek, swot..

I dont mean to find fault with this idea, just so you know that the unconfident kids sometimes get even more unconfident when attention is drawn to them.

Sorry to hear about your experiences.

The kids I teach a quite young (3 and 4) so we don't really see the same bullying etc as one does with older kids. Although I have seen it creeping in with the older group (5-7) and immediately either divided up children who are misbehaving, or told them that name calling etc is not tolerated in my class.

I suppose the fact that its a music college makes a difference too...these kids don't see each other in a playground situation which makes bullying or mistreating another member of the group less likely.