I plan to ask for a recording of the complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas for Christmas. I wondered: what do my fellow forum-ites regard as the best available recording? More importantly - why?

Everyone will have their own opinion on this one...it all depends how you like your Beethoven played.

I own two complete sonata cycles, both recorded during the 1960s. The first is Daniel Barenboim, in his 20s, on EMI. The second is Claudio Arrau, in his 60s, on Phillips.

Barenboim's playing is fresh, lively and exciting. Particular strengths are Op.2 no.2, Op.10 no.2, Op.31 no.1 and Op.31 no.3, where he brilliantly captures Beethoven's humour. The cycle does, however, suffer from two weaknesses. First, he has a tendency to bang fortissimos (eg: third movement of the 'Moonlight') and make an ugly sound. Second, the final five sonatas are poor, with odd, slow tempi that cause the music to lose direction and focus.

Arrau's cycle (which also has the concertos and a selection of variations and bagatelles) is utterly different. The strength of the set is Arrau's revelatory understanding of long-range direction and continuity in a work (eg: in the G major concerto, he plays the first subject of the first movement with a tinge of sadness that softens the transition to the more overtly dramatic development, and gives a wholeness to the movement that is rarely found elsewhere). The final five sonatas are very strong. On the other hand, the playing is less exuberant and less exciting than Barenboim, and there is a complete absence of humour, which is a handicap in a number of works.

So:
For excitement and vigour: Barenboim.
For insight and compelling musical argument: Arrau.

I know - that's why I asked "why?"

Thanks for your reply: I don't know why I've never bought a complete cycle before. I'm sure in time I will have more than one as well!

I like the Alfred Brendel recordings as well as any that I have heard. He always seems to make the composer's intentions so very clear. There is nothing too rushed or too wild in his playing.

I have a complete set on Nimbus, played by Bernard Roberts. These are now available at budget price I think, and are a few years old, but I havent herad anything to beat them, and I am very much 'into' Beethoven sonatas, having rceently played the whole cycle myself, even if amateurishly !

John Lill is also very good., and Alfred Brendel . Ive never been keen on Barenboim though.

Have a listen to Anton Kuerti's complete recording:

Link to sound samples

I don't recommend these as someone who owns the whole set (I don't) and has listened to every one in close detail (I haven't), but I have heard him play live and will never forget the experience.

Also check out Richard Goode, who I have heard play the late sonatas:

Link to sound samples

The sound samples are not great resolution, but would allow you to listen and make up your mind. Both are master pianists in my humble opinion.

Yes, I have Richard Goode - which I love - and also Wilhelm Kempff..plus loads of recordings of individual sonatas. Richter is one of my favourites, but I don't think he did a complete recording.

Check out the new Mitsuko Uchida recordings of Op 101 and Op 106 and also Op 30, 31 & 32. I agree with FSharp minor about the Bernard Roberts recordings, they are outstanding and I never get bored of them.

Let us know what you go with!

I have not got a complete set... but like fsharpminor, I play them all - well, I should say that I used to - I just wish I have more time now...

Ooh, there's an idea though. The entire Beethoven Sontatas played by forum members......

The One I'll probably go for is the early Barenboim which is available as a re-mastered (and relatively budget) CD set. Thanks for all the advice. Of all the ones I've heard the one I like least is the Brendel. I know that some people rave about Brendel's Beethoven renditions but I find them . . . hard to find a word for. Unsatisfying? Irritating? Certainly I don't like them but I find it very hard to put a finger on why. Fortunately the Brendel is also one of the most expensive, so it's unlike me not to pick it!

I am always looking for the best recording of the Complete Beethoven Sonatas and so far, Bernard Roberts on Nimbus comes out top for me (and the price is good too!).

I didn't particularly like Kempff's recording - I think his Schubert Sonatas are much better. Brendel doesn't do it for me and I always feel that he doesn't use the full tones or colours available on the piano. I avoid Barenboim like the plague! I wonder what Perahia's complete recording will be like...

He's bringing one out then? I have only heard bits and pieces of Perahia playing Beethoven sonatas before, but I remember thinking they sounded pretty spot on....The only complete recording of them I have is the Barenboim and it kind of stinks. He's always overcooking everything and there are some painfully exagerrated interpretations of tempo at times.

No!!!

Don't go for the Barenboim. He thumps. I prefer MY renditions of the Moonlight, Pathetique, and Op 101 (and that is pretty damning criticism). There are (at least) two complete sets that are in a different class:

18/02/2008 - I take it back. Barenboim is a fine musician and plays everything better than me.

1. Claudio Arrau

Mostly superb. Fantastic technique. Very clear articulation in passagework. Deep sympathy with Beethoven's intentions. Recorded when Arrau was at his peak.

Criticisms? A few odd choices of tempo.

18/02/2008 I still like this best. I thin it is down to the full, substantial ton ehe somehow creates

2. Alfredo Perl

Also mostly superb. Mostly very faithful to the composer's markings.

Criticisms? Takes quite a few slow movements a little too slowly for my liking.


Cheers
Tom

I love comparing different recordings of the Beethoven Sonatas! I must get my hands of the Perl ones as I've not heard them - they are highly praised though. Bye bye December pay cheque....

Yes, but don't forget that I've heard you play at least 2 of those and I know, if no-one else on the forums does, that you're a pretty damn good pianist! Besides, unless there's something you haven't been letting on, you haven't done a recording of the complete cycle (yet?!)! If you had I would certainly buy it (and would want it signed!)



Further Criticism: It had better be good at this price! Arrau complete Beethoven sonatas on CD for only . . . £460.25!!!



Another criticism: out of stock at Amazon (but happy to keep looking)!

Besides, I never said the Barenboim would be my last such purchase ( ), and at <£22 for the 10 cd set, I still think it's a bargain.

NB: This is the Arrau set that I bought off Amazon -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete...3301&sr=8-1

Yes, I spotted that too (and I might buy it after Christmas), but I already have 5 recordings of the concertos (including one with the pianists own cadenzas!!). Besides, £460 for a set of CD's???? I couldn't let that pass without comment!

I was getting quite excited until I checked it out:

Claudio Arrau - Beethoven Sonatias - Complete CD set from Amazon (USA) $111.98
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-P...s/dp/B00000C2F7

And the Alfredo Perl Set is also available from the same place @ $99.90

http://www.amazon.com/Ludwig-van-Beethoven...8897&sr=1-2

Stop press: The Claudio Arrau set is also avaiable from Amazon UK @ £62, it is just buried at the bottom of 3 pages of Arrau listings.

I have Kempff's mono recordings of the complete sonatas at home. Great ones. I think they are the benchmarks of the Beethoven Sonatas. He also recorded in 60s which is stereo. I have just heard a few of them (Waldstein, Appasionata, Pathetique and Moonlight). Great. But music critics say the mono version is better. Artur Schnabel is a Beethoven pianist about 2 to 3 generations ago. I have listened to his recordings of Sonatas No.21-25. His tempo is vastly different from Kempff's in Waldstein and Appasionata but still very nice. The recording's sound quality is worse but his recordings can also be listened as an alternative choice. Backhaus seems to be a great performer too, but I have never heard of his recordings yet. Find more information in Amazon will be nice.

I'm doing movement 2 of the pathetique at the moment - love it!

And there is a very good reason for this ... like the 16 I still have to learn. My only worry here is that at the rate I memorize stuff I may not live long enough to master the Hammerklavier. And if I did record them who (apart from you!) would be interested in buying them?

But more to the point: I forgot about Robert Taub's recordings of the full set. His might be the best of the lot. He has arranged the 32 sonatas in nine carefully considered recital programs. On sets by some other pianists the way the sonatas are strewn around the CDs seems to be random.

Incidentally, on Claudio Arrau. His Beethoven Sonatas are superb (if a little slow), but some of his interpretations of other composers, especially Chopin, are downright weird.

Someone criticised the Brendel recordings, but actually he recorded the full cycle three times. The first, done when he was quite young, is probably the best, and the last one is also good. The middle one is the lacklustre one.

Did anyone go to the official launch of the AB's new edition of the Beethoven piano sonatas at the Wigmore Hall yesterday? It was very interesting (even though I'm not really into Beethoven) and sounds as though it has been done very carefully.

A pianist called Martin Roscoe is going to record the sonatas from the new edition ready "for release from 2008" - not entirely clear what that means, but a possibility for your Christmas present in 2008 perhaps Robodoc?

I love Ashkenazy. Straight up.

Is the new edition anything like the Craxton & Tovey or is it closer to Urtext?

Among other things, Martin Roscoe organises the Ribble Valley Piano Festival at Stoneyhurst College (I think).

According to Barry Cooper, the editor, he analysed original copy where available, studied other editions, and then made his conclusions according to his findings. It's more like an urtext and incorporates all 35 sonatas. It says on the "blurb" - faithful to the original notation, correcting long-standing errors found in other editions, and presents new and important research.

As I understand it, the sonatas are put into historical perspective (what was happening in Beethoven's life at the time) and there are notes which are inside the back cover of each of the 3 volumes in separate booklets so you can pull them out and study them with the music open in front of you. The fingering has been done by David Ward, and some of Beethoven's own fingering has been included.

They also included some demonstration of pedalling on a fortepiano and compared it with pedalling on a modern piano.


PS Martin Roscoe seems to do a fair amount of performing in the Manchester area so seems to be based near Stonyhurst - could be one and the same chap.

Damn! I just bought the Henle-Verlag Urtext. It would have been nice to have the historical commentaries, not to mention the three "Works without Opus Number".

My unusual Liszt-edited edition went missing years ago, and I have been using the (old) 3-volume AB version ever since, but I hate the way it messes with the distribution of notes between the hands, phrasings, fingerings etc. (For example compare the second movement of the Pathetique with the Urtext. The melody demands to be played by the right hand alone - it is the most straightforward way to keeep the awkward Bb of the accompaniment in bar 2 out of the melody line. And the original phrasing has a quite different musical effect from the AB version.)

Final word:

The more I listen to different recordings the better Claudio Arrau sounds.

He creates a wonderful rich, powerful, substantial tone that suits Beethoven's music perfectly, and makes everyone else sound a bit thin and wishy washy.

Some of his versions may be a little slower than everyone else's but it doesn't matter because he always manages to make the musical meaning clear and keeps your attention and interest, just like a good story teller. In fact after hearing Arrau most other players sound like they are rushing - and not really understanding what they are "saying". There is virtuosity in Arrau's playing, but it is never showy for its own sake. You never think "wow, amazing pyrotechnics". You are too caught up by the music itself.

On the other hand, a quick search on Amazon shows that at least 30 artists have recorded the full set, and that is just the sets that are currently available on CD. They include, for example Annie Fischer's recordings - which I have yet to hear - but expect to be outstanding. (It was hearing a perfomance of Beethovens 3rd piano concerto in 1967 or 1968 that inspired me to take up this crazy instrument). And then there are the lesser known artists ... who knows, one of them might just have produced the definitive interpretation. Anyway, of the seven full sets I have listened through, if I was forced to chose just one, it would be Arrau's.