I was just wondering about the appropriate articulation for this. Does one 'tongue' as with other wind instruments or is the articulation provided by ornamentation etc?

W

Hi W. As the penny whistle is a decendent of the French flageolet which was tongued I have always taken it that this was too. The players that I have met have all done so but many use what I describe as "bagpipe" ornamentation to articulate too, rather than plain and simple slurs.

It depends on the style you're playing. Tonguing is very rare in Scots and Irish music played on the whistle - they use cuts, crans, rolls etc to break up similar notes - even breathing sometimes. The Tongued note is considered an ornament in its own right, to be used very sparingly.

That said, there are a lot of players who play Irish and Scots music on the whistle (and other instruments) badly, because they just play the tunes and don't respect the style (these people also belong to the 'traditional music is easy' camp). If you search for whistle lessons on youtube, you'll come across a priest guy who teaches proper traditional style and is a wicked player. This is, of course, assuming that you're asking about traditional Irish and Scots stuff.

There is a great deal of bagpipe ornamentation used - generally because the whistle is played by pipers when they want to bring a different sound to a session or concert (the low D whistle was actually invented for pipers and although many other people play them, pipers still make the best whistle players by far).

I can't speak for other styles, though.

Allan

EDIT: Here's a link to said guy playing two jigs and a reel on the whistle - notice the abundance of ornamentation, lack of tonguing and wicked rhythm (the switch from jig to reel at about 2 mins is particularly excellent) http://youtube.com/watch?v=lBOtIhR65jg

That's really good stuff. I have added it to my list of favourites. I must try out some of his ornaments on my wide bore recorders.

What lovely playing !

Thanks for the link, Allan.

Glad you both liked it!

Treble recorder ... (NO! BAD ALLAN - no more instruments... )

I thought it was great too! Lots of guidance there...

treble recorders are very nice to play....
*nudges rosfrog encouragingly*
I loved the whistle playing too, though I find evangelism via penny whistle a bit freaky

Don't even get me started on how lovely treble recorders are!!

NAUGHTY PEOPLE

(*rocks in the corner, chanting "More instruments are not necessary in your home. Air is. You can't have both. More Instruments are not necessary in your home.........*)

's all right, you can store air in the treble recorder
Actually, it would really love to have some air stored in it....

I only have one and a half of above-mentioned instruments now, since the dog got hold of the bottom half of my recorder. I like my penny whistle, but can't pretend to play it well. It sort of strikes me as the sort of thing that requires other musicians as well - it seems a bit lonely on its own. As for articulation - I don't know - but for me, it's like the piano in that 'if it sounds right, then do it that way' - methinks. There are probably standard, or 'easiest' ways of getting the right sound, but just look at Horowitz playing the piano! (Courtesy of Mad Tom on another thread.) Or, more importantly - listen. LISTEN is the most important word in playing any instrument.

I really envy my main folk musician friend her set of 7 penny whistles in various keys...

I must get round to having a go at playing more tranditional music, but as with lots of diverse styles, you almost get scared off my the concept of potentially doing it "wrong". I sometimes think these boards have a few too many purists...

Purists are a good thing - it's what means the musical standards are high in any style.

That doesn't mean that you can't have a go and make mistakes, though! Play the music however you like playing it - the main thing is to have fun - if you tongue the notes even though this would be traditionally considered wrong - it doesn't matter! As long as you enjoy playing it, go right ahead. You only have to start to respect the rules when you want to play with other accomplished musicians in the same style. The music does become much more fun when you start to really play in the style though - a simple jig tune may be easily sight readable and simple to play, but it isn't a jig until you do all the other stuff that makes it sound so great - and that's when it's fun.

Play how you like - that's how you push boundaries!

Allan



You're absolutely right, when it comes to trad music, you can ONLY get it right by listening and learning - just playing from a score or using 'classical' technique because it's perceived as being right will get you nowhere - listen to the great players and learn to make sounds that sound the same and you're on the right track!

Agree one hundred percent!

Allan

I am the kind of person who has been known to get bored with Handel and triple the speed while adding jazz quavers...



Returning the the original topic, on the few occasions I have played msic of this style, excessive tonguing means that it seems to loose some of the lilt, if that makes any kind of sense. It just doesn't sit right under the fingers. I would never have thought of using breaths as a form of articulation though.

Yeah, an excellent flute player once told me that, as you have to breathe, you may as well use it as something to give more lift to the music. He tends to breathe just before a note he wants to highlight, cutting the previous note short and leaping in slightly ahead of the beat on the new note - it's really good. If you can hear any comas, listen to them -he's the flute player with them (sylvain) and is very, very good at what he does. Kevin crawford is excellent at it too - check him out on Youtube.

Allan