hi all!!

i just done grade 5 and actually want to have grade 6 exam this year, but i have other way in my mind, i think to skipping until grade 8, the reason is because the cost is too expensive, and needs other supply materials like selected books (imported books are expensive here )

actually haven't discussed it with my teacher (will be soon)

so, my plan is to skipping per year, so in 2010/2011 hopefully i can do grade 8 exam

any suggestions will be appreciated! thanks

No reason why not.
You could well get through a lot more by not doing an exam for a couple of years anyway.

What kind of mark did you get for your Grade 5? Skipping exams is ok, as long as you are aware that there is a fairly big jump from 5 to 6, and then again from 7 to 8. In spite of skipping the pieces, I would still be inclined to work through the aural, sightreading and scales required for each grade, or it will be really hard on you and won't make sense a lot of the time. Exams always tend to build on the previous one, so it's a bit like building a house, having only previously erected a garden shed. It will all depend on your teacher as well. I refused to allow a pupil to skip Grade 6 and move straight on to 7 and I'm glad I did, as she only acheived 117 in G6, which would probably have been a scape through in G7

I don't think anyone ever really skips a grade as such. It's not a case of doing grade 5 and then suddenly doing grade 8. You still need to do the same amount of work to get up to standard, but the only difference is you don't take any exams in between. - which I think is fine!

The main problems with skipping grades are (a) cutting corners on scales and aural - big mistake IMO (b) learning pieces without ever polishing them - you can get around this by making sure you give performances e.g. school concerts or festivals (if you have them where you live), so that you have to get one or two pieces really good.

Other than that, I don't think it matters about taking every exam, though I personally wouldn't jump three grades from 5 to 8. The standard of musicianship needed at grade 8 is so very different from that at grade 5.

I read the original post as taking the time to get to the level but just not taking the in between exams.
In that case the standard is likely to be reached.

i learnt all the pieces, scales and sight reading and didn't do any of the aural for grade 6. in which i ended up skipping grade 6 because of uni exams when i wanted to take grade 6 which but the nect entry date it would mean i would have been playing the same pieces for 1 1/2 years so now i'm doing grade 7 which has better pieces which i'll be taking in november.

does anyone know what is in the aural tests for grade 7 piano? because i've ended up failing the aural for grades 4 and 5

sing back the base? line, of something the examiner plays, from memory.
Identify a cadence as perfect, imperfect, or interrupted, and name the chords in it.
Identify a modulation to the dominant or subdominant major, or relative minor
sight-sing something
Then the usual listen to a piece and answer questions thing.

i think thats all

I saw the title and thought "grades in skipping?"

Ta da!: http://www.abrsm.org/resources/auralTests06Gr7.pdf

And just in case you are interested, the whole lot (G1-8): http://www.abrsm.org/resources/auralSyllabusComplete08.pdf

thanks for all suggestions!


139


yes, absolutely, i didn't planned to jump from grade 5 and suddenly learn material from grade 8
i'll do all the materials from grade 6,7,8 and do grade 8 exam, that's what i mean


yes absolutely! i'm not a super piano student!!
i'll learn all the materials and with amount of time 1 year per grade (hopefully) without the exam until grade 8
so, (hopefully) can do grade 8 in 2010 or 2011


sorry if you misunderstood my english..
i'm still learning english as a second language in school..

my teacher even told me that from grade 7 to 8 needs about 2-3 years!
she said that i have to learn many repertoires and sonatas before go to grade 8 exam.
but i think my teacher's plan is good because we can learn more and deeper for grade 8.
any other suggestions about this?

thanks very much

m_b_r

I think that sounds great!

By the way your English is excellent. In fact, I know many people who don't write as well as you... and English is apparently their first language

Only achieved 117 in G6? What an extraordinary remark! You seem to be suggesting that anything less than a merit is tantamount to failure, whereas in fact a failure is anything less than 100. I skipped G5 and G7 and passed G8 (albeit with only 114). I can tell you that a pass is a pass is a pass and I was very pleased with my result.

This calls into focus the whole point of doing the board exams - if you want to go to music college or you actually need them for some other academic purpose, then they matter intrinsically. My take on them is that they only matter because they are tangible steps on a well-worn path, and indicate your current position on it. Also, having something to aim for helps to focus one's energies. But there is a danger (especially with pushy parents, and particularly pushy parents who don't play an instrument themselves or even particularly care about music) that the pupil loses sight of the purpose of playing an instrument - to make music.

So my advice would be - save your money but expand your repertoire. Learn all the major and minor scales and arpeggios. Have fun with your music. And if you only get 101 in your G8 - so what?

I hadn't meant it to sound quite so flippant. I actually meant that if she had been likely to achieve a mark in her Grade 6 as our original poster had acheived in Grade 5 then I would have had no qualms about her missing it. But she struggled with scales and one of her pieces, so jumping up a grade wouldn't have been a great plan.
Incidently, if I manage to get to get 114 in my Grade 8 when I sit it later this year I will be ecstatic. I'm more expecting a scrape through, if a pass at all. Well done!

sorry to be difficult but I'm struggling with the logic of the discussion in this thread.
We seem to have completely contradictory advice:

1) If you are not struggling you should move on to higher level material : why be held back by taking time over doing the exam?
2) If you are struggling, you should not do the exam but build your repertoire.
3) To ensure a pass under nerve-wracking exam conditions, you need to be playing at merit level. Thus only enter for the exam if you are playing at over pass level (and so not struggling).
4) If you can play at merit level and only get a pass, then that's really a fail (=underachievement)
5) a pass is a pass is a pass (ie not a fail)

I am currently thinking about which grade exam to take (if any): do I go with level of current repertoire
so as not to waste time "going backwards" OR do I go for a lower grade to take into account
exam nerves and practical music exam inexperience?

I need a "killer" reason to cut this knot guys

People take exams for different reasons and with different expectations, so the various positions you're seeing here reflect that. I don't think you're ever going to get concensus on here about it.



You need to decide what /you/ want to get out of doing an exam. Your teacher should be able to tell you what grade you're playing at and advise you on what to do, but in the end it's down to what you feel comfortable with.

Personally, I tend to work up to exams rather than down. It makes it more nerve-wracking, but it forces me to knuckle down and practice harder than I otherwise would and get to grips with stuff I'd otherwise procrastinate about indefinitely.
If you're not used to the exam system and/or you're nervous about exams, then a bit of a safety margin might be a good idea. Taking a lower grade doesn't necessarily waste time as you should be able to learn the pieces very quickly and your scales and so on should already be beyond what's required, so you won't need to spend any extra time learning them. But taking one that's a long way below your current standard may be a bit pointless - go low enough to minimise exam nerves, but not so low that you're doing something meaningless. (eg. if you're playing at about grade 4-5 standard, grade 5 would be the slightly risky choice (not unreasonable for someone with a bit of exam experience, but maybe unwise for a first timer), grade 4 should be quite comfortable and would be the sensible choice in most circumstances, grade 3 would be worth considering as a very gentle introduction to exams, but grade 1 would be too trivial for you get much satisfaction from it).
Working for an exam when you're not really at the required standard can slow down progress because it takes so long to learn pieces when they're well above your playing level. I don't usually really learn exam pieces until the entry goes in (depending on grade - for higher grades I'll at least start looking at a couple of them before that, but the serious work starts then; for lower grades I might not even choose some of the pieces until after the entry goes in). Spending a year (or more) trying to get my fingers round three pieces doesn't interest me. Some teachers like to be sure you know the exam material before they'll put the entry in - but if you're at about the right level you can usually get the gist of it down in a couple of weeks - enough to show them that you're on the right track, and then the time from entry to exam can be spent polishing things.
If something doesn't come together as fast as you expected or if you peak too soon on one piece, you can always change your program (especially if you're going for a grade that you're comfortably at the right standard for).

As for what really counts as a good result - I don't much care whether I get a pass or a merit or a distinction as long as I think the result was fair (there's only been one so far that I think wasn't) and I got what I was aiming for, which varies depending on the instrument and the circumstances. There have been exams where anything less than a distinction would've been disappointing, as I knew I was capable of getting it. But there've also been exams where a pass was the best I could hope for.

I don't get into the "grade a year" mindset. Sometimes I'll do the next grade the following term, or the term after that. Sometimes I'll take a year or more between exams (and maybe skip a grade). There are some instruments I never do exams in, others where I more or less work my way through the grades, but mostly I just take the odd exam here and there.
Piano's the only instrument where I've done every exam from grade 1 to my current grade (which for piano is 5) and there are two subjects where my first (and only) exam was grade 5 and another two where I started at grade 3. Theory I did grades 1 and 5 and am now working for 7. Flute I started at grade 2 and worked steadily through to grade 5, but I'm missing out grade 6.
The shortest gap I've had between consecutive grades in a subject is one term; the longest is over a decade.

T.

wow thanks Teigr!

You're welcome. Hope it helped you clarify things a bit. The best thing to do is to tell your teacher that you're interested in trying an exam. Teachers usually have a pretty good idea of what grade level their pupils are working at, even if they're not doing anything that's specifically for exams. And they usually have a good idea of what sort of result a pupil is likely to get, though it does depend a bit on how things go on the day, how nervous you are, if anything about the exam rattles you, how much practice you put in, etc. Certainly after you've done an exam or two, your teacher is likely to be able to predict your results fairly accurately, knowing how you respond to exams.
If you havn't tried aural before, your teacher can give you some practice tests and explain what you need to do. I don't know what the grade 1 tests are like, but grades 2 and 3 are more or less the same as each other, but with grade 3 being slightly harder. Grades 4 and 5 are about the same, but with 5 being a little harder. I think 6 through 8 are similar to each other, with the obvious increase in difficulty from one grade to the next.
You probably do regular sight-reading anyway, but your teacher will have the specimen test books, so you can try tests for various grades.
The scale requirements are given in the syllabus, so you can work out for yourself roughly where you're at with them.

If your supporting tests are some way behind your pieces, then a lower grade would give you a chance to build confidence on them without having to spend ages learning the pieces. Or you could aim for the grade that you're playing fairly comfortably at and work on bringing the supporting tests up to scratch, maybe waiting a bit longer before you take the exam.
The entry deadline for this term has passed, so the earliest you'd be looking at would be summer term. if you have a go at the supporting tests with your teacher this term, you'll have plenty of time to see how you get on and think about what you'd like to aim for.

Also check with your teacher to see which board(s) s/he uses. I'm talking about the AB tests here because that's what I'm used to, but different boards have different requirements and TG has more flexibility than AB.
Another thing to be aware of is theory requirements. If you want to take grade 6 or higher with AB, you need to have passed grade 5 theory, practical musicianship or jazz, or an acceptable substitute. The most common route is grade 5 theory.

Some teachers require you to know all the scales for an exam before they'll put you in for it. Some require you to have your pieces well under way. If they havn't seen you through an exam before they'll be more likely to want to see that you're well on track by the entry date - most will have had pupils before who promised to work harder if they were put in for the exam and then didn't. Most will also have seen pupils who, without having made any promises, drastically increased their focus and their practice in the run up to an exam. When you teacher has seen what you do, it's easier for them to gauge how much prep time you need for an exam and how you handle the pressure.

My flute teacher was happy to put me in for grade 5 recorder on the basis that I'd taught myself one of the pieces, got the music for another and learned about 5 of the scales, because it's sufficiently similar to flute that she could use my previous flute grades as a predictor of how quickly I could pull it all together for the exam (and she knew that my SR and aural were up to scratch already, from doing g5 flute). Piano grade 5 was different - I had to have most of the scales learned and all three pieces under way and do a few specimen sight-reading tests before the entry date, as she hadn't seen how I handled piano exams before. And she was absolutely right, because, even with my piano work being much further along than the recorder work when the entries went in, I did far better on recorder - I worked harder at it and I just have more aptitude and enthusiasm for it than I have for piano. If I want to take another piano exam sometime (unlikely!), I'll have to have all my scales fluent and all my pieces more or less passable by the entry date, as she's seen it all unravel in the run-up to an exam. For recorder, the only requirement is that I obtain the music for all three pieces before the entry date next time (one of the ones I ordered last time didn't turn up til about 3-4 weeks before the exam which didn't give us very long to learn it and fit the two parts together).

Until you've notched up a bit of exam experience, you can't really get a feel for what you need to do and how long it takes you to do it. And, as I've proved all too well, your track record on one instrument isn't necessarily a good predictor of how you'll do on another.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do in the end.

T.

really nice to see all your opinions!

i now realize that every people has their own purposes to be achieved in a music exam

teigr, you're really a good writer!
really nice to read your thought! you really opened my mind about examination

actually, i just had a lesson with my teacher but haven't told her about my plan (i forgot hehehe)

m_b_r

Fantastic advice from Teigr there, and especially true about all the different opinions you'll get on a forum Everyone has different circumstances.

Good luck broken_reeds and loops with whatever you both decide to do!

thanks ad_libitum

good luck to all of you!

Skipping grades is not a problem, providing you don't skip the technical development and so on that taking a grade is supposed to mark: I have mentioned on these forums before that a number of excellent musicians never even took any exam, let alone an AB exam, not even grade 1: Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmininov, Paganinni, Wagner, any of the Strausses - the list is longer by far than the list you might provide of those legends in music who DID go through the grade system.

There is a good case for suggesting that the best of musicians take very few exams: If at the age of 6 a child is already giving recitals and is clearly a candidate for a career as a concert pianist, what's the point of doing any exam at all? The Child should get on with learning the repertoire (currently the subject of another thread) and only do those exams that have to be passed to get "where you need to be".

Alas, due to having realized my true vocation (as a child prodigy) too late, I am forced to admit that not all of us, especially me, are in the position of considering ourselves to be among the best of musicians. For the rest of us, exams are ways of obtaining bits of paper.

Whether those bits matter to you is what should dictate whether to skip grades or not.

If you need all the intervening bits of paper in order to score points on some application form then don't skip. If you want to make a career as a musician the only ones that count are the ones which will get you there: One possible road map would be Grade 5 theory, Grade 8 practical, Diploma (since each is a prerequisite for the next). If you just do it for fun you have the option of picking up as many bits of paper as you can along the way or just learning to play.

Me? I'm skipping grades.

I think that if you think you're capable of skipping the grades then you should go for it! By posting your queries it appears to me as though you're dedicated enough to take the time to practise and not to neglect any area's like aural tests or scales when you skip the grades, which is good.

I know it's a bit different, as you're talking about skipping higher grades, but I did my grade 1 exam, and then sat my grade 4 exam 6months later and passed with a distinction! All I did was to play lots of different pieces to help my sight-reading, then practise scales and aural quite a bit...this made up for the fact I skipped 3 grades. So I think you'll be able to do it!

Good luck!!

Laura

But most of the great composers studied very hard in the customary manner for the times they lived in, either apprenticed to good teachers, or in the conservatoires. Take a look at the alumni of the Paris Conservatoire


Seems like most of the true piano greats were already virtuosi before their ages reached double figures. You can easily find their modern day equivalents on YouTube. There are 8 and 9 year olds there that could earn diplomas if only they could write programme notes. It is true that if you can play that well you don't need bits of paper to prove it - but isn't that true at any age. If you want to perform on any instrument the only thing that really matters is Can You Hack It?

As a child or young teenager you just go along with taking grade exams because it is just how things are. When you grow up and start thinking for yourself you have to ask yourself the question. Just what are diplomas and certificates for?

1. To prove you ability to someone that is incapable of assessing it, or unwilling to assess it, for themselves
- for entry to a profession
- for admission to a course of study

2. To prove to yourself that you have genuinely reached the standard you think you have

3. A historical record - so when you haven't touched your instrument for so long that you have forgotten what it looks like (all double entendres accidental) you can say - "I reached grade X 30 years ago".

4. An incentive to work.

I also missed my vocation as a musical prodigy.

I started learning piano late in 1967, aged 12 and took Grades 1 (Dec 1967), 3 (Jul 1968), 4 (Apr 1969), and 5 (Dec 1969).

This breakneck progress came to a halt when I failed grade 6 in 1970. The examiner that failed me advised me to find a new teacher - so perhaps this should be cross-posted in the "Examiner's inappropriate remarks thread". Actually my first teacher was a very nice lady, and a very good teacher - but only up to grade 5.

My new teacher was brilliant, which I did not properly appreciate at the time. What I was doing right she left well alone, and what I was doing wrong, she managed to correct without ever making me feel stupid or inadequate. Mrs. Carr LLCM of Adlington - I guess you will be in your 70's now. If you are reading this, thank you very, very much. I know I didn't show much appreciation at the time.

I thought I was going to study piano at a music college, and needed grade 8 to make up for the lack of a Music A-level (timetable clash!), so we skipped grades 6 and 7 and went straight to grade 8 which I took in April 1972.

I slipped grades 1-4, because I had lessons in Japan.



In Japan, the teaching is different.My teacher did Burgmuller 25 studies after the Kids' Czerny, and Sonatina book 1 after the Burgmuller 25, so my repertoire wasn't very balanced.

Yes that's very interesting - the entire post it - but especially the notion that exams are just "the done thing"

I recently had a young pupil's parent talking to me about exams, and how he didn't think his daughter (very talented girl) was that fussed on them really, but loved doing the festivals/concerts etc... The thing that struck me was that he asked "Is that allowed?"

I think so many teachers present the idea that you must do these exams one after the other that parents and parents' friends then feel that there's no alternative. Really you can't blame some of the parents who are eager for their child to do grades even though they have no knowledge of them themselves, as they are so widely talked about that the parent just assumes they go hand in hand with learning music.

Anyhow in answer to this father's question I assured him that it most certainly is allowed and I'm more than happy, in fact! I've just got the girl a lovely book at her standard with a collection of baroque to modern music, plus lots of music history in there too. I'm looking forward to her next lesson where we will talk nothing but music, and the subject of how many marks she will get for the pieces won't come up

Another older beginner at 14, is coming on very quickly with his piano repertoire and at 15 now, would be roughly grade 2/3 standard already. Again we haven't touched exam material. The only thing I've suggested is that when he gets to about 6th form, he might want to take the grade we feel he can manage. The reason? To get more UCAS points on his university form