Hi everyone, I'm just interested in some opinions.

I'm hoping to start taking singing lessons again after a good few months off with my baby.

I've decided I need to find a new teacher as my previous teacher, despite being very nice, never did any technique with me and although I've managed to pass Grade 5, I dont know how to use my voice properly. I feel I want to be "trained" correctly.

My brother says I need to find a really high quality professional singing teacher, preferably an experienced opera singer, but to be honest I'm a bit nervous.

I'm 36 and have had negative comments from "professional singing teachers" about my voice in the past - about how I'm "too old and untalented with no potential and teaching me is a waste of their time etc" so I'm wary of going to anyone really high standard in case they say the same thing.

I also don't know how to find out about good teachers. Apparently the best ones don't advertise and the ones who do are often inexperienced or people who have music degrees but no professional experience. Does this make them less good teachers?

I have found one local teacher who seems nice, I had a "free consultation lesson" with her and she gave me lots of exercises and explained a lot about diaphragm breathing etc. But she is very young and has not sung professionally as far as I know, She has a degree in music (singing 1st study) and teaches music at a private girls' school, but thats it. She is not a concert soprano or anything of the sort.

I'm really not sure what to do. I do want to be trained to the best of my ability but it seems so hard to find the right teacher!

The thing is, a lot of people who have music degrees have trained to be teachers, and although they may not have had their big break to make it into the opera world, they have the ability to give you the paint brushes to go and paint that canvas. The other side of the coin is the pro-singers who put themselves out there as teachers. These people are great, but they've probably never had the same amount of problems that a standard student would have to get to where they are so you must ask yourself if you really believe that they'd be good enough to help you. They may just have this enviable innate ability.

My singing teacher was great, she was the best of both worlds - a pro-singer who could teach too. You may just find one of these around. Keep searching, and as soon as you find someone you're comfortable with try it out for a few weeks

I found my teacher on the ISM teacher's list - she's also in the AOTOS and has a long career as both a teacher and performer. One of the advantages of an older person who has had a long performance and teaching career is the large number of personal connections they've made, leading to oppotunities and activities outside my lesson. Most months I'm involved in at least one event. I'd definitely recommend finding a teacher who's a member of something in an active sort of way. You could ask about performance opportunities.

I'm saddenend to hear you've been told you're too old. My teacher has never said that to me (in my 40s). I'm encouraged to think I've a long career ahead of me by having met, on a couple of performance occasions, another pupil(?, &/or friend?) of my teacher's who's in his 90s. I've been told that my voice is just approaching it's prime. (Of course this my not be strictly true, but kind of her to say so).

AOTOS - http://aotos.org.uk/directory.php
ISM - http://www.ism.org/publications/registers.php

Thanks Alicia

There are two teachers on the ISM near me, unfortunately one has no space at the moment for new students and the other charges £50 per lesson, which I'm afraid is out of my price range! There isn't anyone near me on the AOTOS.

umm... I knew a certain member of this forum would be a perfect singing teacher for me.

So I asked her.

And she said 'yes'.

And nine months down the line, I'm still singing, and don't intend on stopping.

Lady M

If you were anywhere near me I'd snap you up straight away, but alas I think geographically you are too far away.

36 is not too old I've taken on older pupils and value them. The main criteria I look for is some one who loves singing and wants to improve and will practise.

Jo

You've found someone local who seems nice, you want to work on technique - she has talked to you about exercises and diaphragmatic control - she is a first study singer with a music degree --- that all sounds pretty good to me - why not give her a try? The best performers don't necessarily make brilliant teachers and the best teachers aren't always great performers - it is rare to find someone who does both well.

Thanks everyone, I've had two lessons with this new lady and she seems pretty good, she has done some work on diaphragm and breathing with me which is something I do need to go over. I still hope to get down to take a lesson or two with Ann C at some point, its just that distance and transport are problematic at the moment!

That's funny, because nowadays I very rarely mention the diaphram in connection with breathing. Sure it descends when you inhale but all the support comes from transversus abdominus and the lateral abdominal muscles, and that has bee proven scientifically. I now tend to refer to opening up the rib cage and working on lateral intercostal breathing with abdominal support.

The British Voice Society did a big Lecture on this last year with ultrasound pictures and everything, it was all supported by the Performaing Arts Medicine People.

We have been teaching breathing wrong for years. My own teacher was at the lecture

This fitted with what my Pilates teacher had taught me, and armed with her advice I revised my teaching style. It was an instant success, both in terms with my own tecnique and with the sound my pupils were making. It also illiminated a lot of tension from the neck area.

Advice changes as science brings new findings. The correct breathing for singing is lateral intercostal breathing. Support comes from transversus abdominus and the lateral abdominal muscles, best referred to as your "sit up" muscles. You are not breathing into your stomach you breathe into your lower back and open up the chest. The diaphram descends naturally.

It does nothing during Exhalation, mentioning it is a red herring. All the work comes from the "sit-up" muscles.

Physiologically, the diaphragm is the motor of breathing and always will be. Muscular support is a different thing, but it works together.

I wonder why intercostal or lateral or abdominal support gets sold as something new now - it was (at least to me) always taught that way (although I still mention the diaphragm to interested students, but in a different context). Especially in Musical Theatre, we constantly talk about back anchoring (and it's not different in classical singing) and have done so for decades ...

The question would rather be: HOW is it actually taught - even intercostal, abdominal or lateral support can be taught wrongly, as can diaphragmatic breathing. But we won't be able to teach this over the internet anyway

I have never been taught, nor have I ever taught anyone to breathe down into their abdomen. I don't want to be sued for causing a diaphragmatic hernia!
Lateral intercostal breathing has always been the way I have been taught - for decades. But the diaphragm does control the support - it's just that it is only under our active control when breathing in. But we can ALLOW it to passively support by keeping the rib cage high and actively squeezing the contents of our gut up against it with the abdominal muscles during exhalation. It then returns to its pudding basin shape ready for the next breath.
Contrary to popular belief, it is not the breath being drawn in that causes the rib cage to rise - it is the rib cage rising that sucks the air in. So there's absolutely no point in breathing down into the tummy anyway - there's no lungs down there!
Personally I never mention technical names for muscles, etc. (Most) Students don't want a science lesson - they just want to know, in laymens terms, how to do it.

That's why I call them the "sit up" muscles. Most people have done a sit up and know exactly what muscles they used. I also will draw a line on me, the same way as my pilates teacher did so that people can se what they are and say things like "the long muscle here" and the "muscles here".

Interestingly though with so many people going to gyms, they all know the muscle names anyway and ask me do I mean the lats or the obliques or the transverse muscles.

Now either I'm teaching a bunch of science geeks, fitness fanatics or people are reassured that I know which muscles are used.

During Exhalation the Diaphram is passive. I cannot see what we as teachers can do to effect a passive muscle.

If during inhalation people concentrate on breathing into their lower back they automatically fill the rest of their lungs, their diaphram descends naturally, the chest opens, and the shoulders remain low.

It occurs to me we owe it to our students to concentrate in illiminating tension to the muscles that inhibite breathing so that the fundamental breathing muscles can get on and do the job properly. Many students arrive with shoulder problems and tight pectoral muscles that inhibit the chest opening fully. For support to work properly the chest needs to move freely.

Now I'm not suggesting that we all become physotherapists, however I have been given a raft of physical warm-up exercises over the years from teachers concerned with this ergonomic approach to breathing. I use them with myself and my pupils.

I can see tension and hear it. It's a very American approach, but it works a dream.

I rarely use the word diaphram. But I use the word support a lot. I'm not about to give anyone a Diaphramatic hernia, because I'm working with and not against the body both with myself and also with my pupils.