I am an adult beginner (Cello) - never learnt an instrument at school - never learnt to read music. Completely fresh to it at 30.

I look at what I'm playing (have only had a few hours worth of lessons so far) and I can see my small steps of progress already - but if I even dare let myself look ahead at how complex music can become and just how much there is to learn - I get overcome with doubt that I will ever get there. I am amazed people play to such standards - and I don't mean orchestra standard or even grade 8 - grade 1 scares me - grade 4 petrifies me - grade 8 is so far away from anything imaginable, I don't even think about it!!!

Is there anyone on here who is playing at a decent level who started as a complete beginner as an adult and had these feelings? I just wonder whether the person who moves up through the grades - always thought and knew they would or whether they ever thought it seemed too hard to ever be within there grasp.

I am not in a hurry - I love my cello so much I can't ever imagine not having it or not playing it every day - so getting better really quickly is not a concern - just understanding whether I will ever get to the point I can play with others and play notes shorter than a crochet!!!

Very clumsy posting sorry - hope people understand what I'm getting at!

Hi kelly

I'm only G3 going on G4, so I'm not really at a "decent level" but I can relate to other aspects of what you've said - completely new to music, learning as an adult etc.

When I first started three years ago, I'd no idea how far I'd get and I didn't really think about it. But I wasn't a member of the forums at that time, and I hadn't really found out about all the different levels or got to know how it all worked. I just took it a step at a time, learnt a few more notes bit by bit and thought it was fantastic that I could play anything, even if it was only Grade 1 standard

When I was on Grades 1 and 2, Grade 5 seemed such a long way away, and it still is, although now I think it should be achievable at some stage. Beyond that.... don't like to think!

It took me ages to learn how to play quavers when I was pre-Grade 1. Now I wonder if I'll ever be able to play trills or demisemiquavers, but I don't wonder too much. I find it's best just to concentrate on the job in hand, and when I'm ready for it, trills and demisemiwhatsits will hopefully take care of themselves

I started playing with others a few weeks before I took Grade 1 - it was a beginners group and not really a proper ensemble as such. I played in an ensemble when I was Grade 2 and also in a jazz band. You'll get there - and if you love your practising, you'll get there all the quicker! Good luck!

Hi, It sounds llike you are really enjoyng it. I think that learning as an adult is interesting because you are so conscious of the process of learning that you will be able to work out ways yourself of making practice more effective. As for "getting there", one of the difficulties is that the better you get, the more you realise how much more there is to learn, which can be a bit offputting (speaking for myself anyway!).

The important thing to remember is that it's hard to unlearn something - so every moment you spend playing or practicing is progress made, even if it's only a small step, and in six months time you'll be unrecognisably better than you are today.

Best of luck!

N

Thank you so much - both of you

Skylark - clumsy use of the word 'decent' by me I think - G3/4 in my world and by my standard would be decent!!!

Your posting made me feel like I'm not the only one that thinks that, but you're right it's one enjoyable step at a time!

Nova -

Very wise words - and ones I will hold on to!

Thank you both of you, for your very sensible and encouraging words - I need to stop worrying and thinking about what's on the horizon and just deal with what is on the paper in front of me! I do love what I'm doing and I don't even get bored playing a scale!!

Going to go and practise now....!

Thanks again!

I love playing scales too!

It's lovely to be so enthusiastic - I'm really pleased for you

Well done for learning a new instrument!!

I'm not a complete beginner but I only got up to around grade 3 or 4 when I was younger. I think being adults, we tend to put more pressure on ourselves to do well. My music knowledge isn't brilliant, I struggle with the theory side but it's fun to learn - that's the most important thing to enjoy learning! When you look back in a year's time, you'll be amazed at the progress you've made, even if it's a small step forward, it's still a wonderful achievement! You should be proud of yourself

Oh yes I've been there.

I remember when I went to do my Grade 1 violin, my teacher had another adult pupil who was taking Grade 4 at the same sitting. I was so in awe of her, and can remember hearing her scales from outside while waiting my turn to go in. It all sounded so wonderful.

Anyway I have now just got my Grade 5, which when I started seemed like the Holy Grail!! It's taken me many years to get here, but I have so enjoyed the journey...and am determined to carry onwards and upwards.

Edit: Just a thought on your subject title. You might like this quote...

"In order for me to enjoy standard repertoire, I have to go beyond this and climb always higher mountains. And now for me this journey would be like climbing Everest. But then, after, I do hope I will see another mountain that is even higher, and even more beautiful, and then when I come back and I descend from this mountain I will see the standard repertoire that I usually play on the violin, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, I will see these works with different light, and play them even more beautifully."

Maxim Vengerov 2005

Hmmmm so even he has not reached the top of the mountain!!

Its not getting to the top that counts - its traveling towards there I think if we ever feel like we've got to the top, then we lose something.

\invading adult forum - sorry!

That means that at least you're not bringing any bad habits or mis-remembered, half-understood theory concepts from childhood. :-)
Adults tends to be better about things like practising because they usually have a more mature outlook than kids. When I was a kid, I was awful when it came to scale practice. Now that I understand why scales are important I just knuckle down and get on with them.



That sounds pretty normal to me, even for people who play other instruments and read music when they start. When I started flute, I think I had some vague ideas about maybe getting to grade 5 eventually, but I wasn't really looking beyond grade 2 in the short term. Now I'm working for grade 7 and would like to go for 8 at some point if I can sort out my problems with the top notes and with breathing.

The further you get, the further ahead you start to see being possible. Though there are certain big "milestone" levels which it can be hard to look beyond until you've achieved them (I'd say grades 1, 5 and 8 are probably the big ones, psychologically, for a lot of people).



I started piano when I was 5 (though I gave up 4 years later) and have been able to read music for almost as long as I can remember, so that does give me a headstart. Even so, I've got a lot further than I ever expected to with some other things.
With flute, I knew I'd go through at least a few grades, but I hadn't looked very far ahead, and the idea of gettting to grade 8 just wasn't there at all.
If you're defining "decent" as grade 3-4, then yes, I always knew I'd get there on flute, but I already played other things, so I sort of knew the route. Working for g7 at the moment has me in completely uncharted territory and I'm feeling rather daunted by it. It's definitely not somewhere I ever expected to be when I took up the flute.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the standard you need to reach to sound pretty decent and to be able to play in various ensembles and to play some of the standard repertoire for your instrument varies enormously between different instruments. With flute, I could play pretty much anything in the hymnbook when I was doing grade 2, so I could play in church music groups and similar quite confidently. Piano, I have grade 5, but the hymnbook is full of things I can't get my fingers round and can't even imagine being able to get my fingers round. I can turn up at church with my flute 5 minutes before the start of a service and with no prior notice of what the hymns/songs are, and can play the whole lot, even transposing some of it into different keys on the fly if necessary. To play a single hymn on a keyboard instrument, I need a week or two advance warning, a complete list of all the hymns (from which I can choose whichever one is least scary!), hours and hours of practice and sometimes a sheet of manuscript paper (so I can write out a slightly simplified version!). Right now, on paper, I'm about the same standard on both instruments! (same grade, one pass, one merit), but in terms of what I can do with them in real life situations there's a world of difference.
I reckon that orchestral strings are a little slower going in the early stages than most woodwind, because you have to get used to putting your fingers in exactly the right places with no frets or anything to guide you. But it should be faster than piano as you don't have to read two staves of music at the same time and play different notes with each hand. I would guess that about grade 3-4 would be enough to be able to sight-read anything in a hymnbook quite comfortably.

Some very well known pieces of music appear(ed) on the flute syllabus from about grade 5 onwards. Whereas a lot of famous piano music is way beyond grade 8 standard. I don't know where 'cello fits on the spectrum, but there's a very cool CD available by Stephen Isserlis which is entirely of pieces that kids might encounter as they work their way through the early grades. One of them is entirely on the open strings! I've lent my copy to my flute teacher's husband (who's an adult beginner at the 'cello), so I can't tell you more about it right now, but I think you'd enjoy it.



I started violin at 17, which is near enough adult. Never had any lessons, just a few pointers from friends who play, and I havn't ever taken it particularly seriously. I'm currently playing at pre-grade 1 standard and I was able to play with others at a forums ensemble day last autumn. Barry brought along all the music, and it included special parts for "easy violin" which didn't go out of first position (which is good, cos I can't) and I would guess he had similar parts for 'cello too, though there weren't any cellists there.

So, playing with others will probably happen a lot sooner than you expect - you just have to find some people to play with. Check out the Forum Events forum (under the General Music Forum) and you should find details of forthcoming play days and so on.

T.

Thank you sooooo much everyone - your individual stories and journeys are so interesting and very helpful. I suppose as an adult one can worry about things more than just taking things in one's stride as a child.

Despite it really not worrying me how long it takes to reach certain levels of competency - because as many of you have said - the journey along the way is why I'm doing it, I think it's the adult (and teacher!) in me that questions whether I'm doing okay. Not knowing what average progress looks like sometimes makes me wonder - even at this early stage how I'll progress! I know I don't need to worry about it and my teacher is lovely and I trust her completely - she's been teaching a long time and her experience includes playing with international orchestras - so I know I'm in good hands!

The bottom line is I'm just happy I took the leap and I'm doing it.

Well done to anyone who takes up this journey - and encourages others along the way - it's a great thing!


Thanks again everyone x x

During one of my Holiday jobs in a textile mill there was an 'Interesting" chap that kept the stores tidy. You would have thought he was certifiably insane - except that back in 1975 he owned 2 houses and was negotiating on a third, despite being one of the lowest paid workers in the place.

One of his favourite sayings to the student workers was "You've got all those degrees and O-levels and A-levels, but none of them is as useful as this thermometer and this spirit level"

Another - the one that applies here - was:

"Take a step at a time, and you'll walk a mile"

Good luck

I started violin from scratch about 18months ago and am taking Grade 3 in a months time. I'm terribly bored with the pieces and have been a bit grumpy with my playing until I forced my teacher to give me a Grade 4 exam piece (I'm playing plenty of things at Grade 4/5 anyway) and it's given me a new lease of life.

I'm still concentrating for the last few weeks on my Grade 3 exam but I'm powering ahead with Grade 4 and have just ordered the exam book. It think it's because you need fluent shifting and vibrato and they're 'proper' pieces that it feels so ADVANCED!!! I'm just thrilled I have something 'meaty' to get my teeth into.

But the thing I have noticed is that I feel like I've been playing the violin all my life and just totally love it!! In fact I don't remember what it was like NOT to play it, even elementary as I am just now.

Not sure it can be said better Mad Tom! Thanks!




Wow Grade 4/5 pieces after 18 months - that sounds quick - but then, I don't know why I say that because I've no idea what is quick, slow, average! - and actually I don't think any of us should worry about that too much if - like you - so much enjoyment is being gained from it.

Do you have one lesson a week? I have a 45 min lesson every week and I do practise everyday - although not as much as I would like. My house is terraced and after I get in from work I'm conscious of not wanting to disturb my neighbours too much - so try not to play after 7pm. Bit of a shame really because I'm a real night person! ANd if it's been a late finish from work that doesn't always leave me very long.
Oh to ive in a detached house!!!

You sound so in love with your instrument and what you're doing - and it's so lovely to hear you say you feel like you've always played. I think I must bore the people I know stiff telling them how in love with my cello I am! - they like so many people on here though are really supportive.

It's great to find something that can make you so happy!

I remember reading somewhere that the cello was a really good instrument for an adult learner to take up, because the cello part in ensembles is often quite straightforward and not too fast, unlike the violin part which can be a blizzard of semi-quavers.

For me, the key to real enjoyment came when I began to be able to play with others. And that happened after about 2-3 years, around G4ish level. Since then it's just been FUN - even the grades. Well, not the actual exam, but lessons and all that. Keep at it, it's really great for the blood pressure !

I have a half-hour lesson once a week and I have to be honest I only practice about four times a week due to work etc. I try to make each session around an hour though. The reason I've advanced quite quickly is because I can already read music. I did play the violin for a few months when I was six years old but apparently I hated it and used to get very distressed about the lessons (the teacher wasn't very nice). It's a real pity I didn't stick with it because it's under my skin now... although I'd LOVE to try the cello sometime....

I started as a beginner cellist three and a half years ago at the age of 61, and am taking grade 4 in three weeks' time. I am a pianist of many years standing, which meant I knew all the theory side of things, but which also meant it was frustrating at the start because I wanted to progress more quickly than I was able to - the cello is a completely different instrument to master. Like Teigr, I struggle more with keyboard, where I need a lot of practice (I've lost count of how many hours accompaniment practice I've put in for my recorder pupil's grade 3 exam on Monday, and it's not that difficult!) I really love playing my cello and have a far more extensive repertoire on it than I do for piano. As others have said, you will look back after a few months and realise just how much you have come on. Can you record your afforts as you go? It's really interesting to look back and hear what you were like. I wish I had recorded more of mine than I did.

Having not quite started from the beginning, as I could read music and play a couple of instruments badly...

I did take up the treble recorder as an adult, and yes, I know how daunting it can feel when you start out like that . The good news is that life has already equipped you to learn more efficiently than a child does, and if you've been listening to music a lot, you'll have some idea in your head of what you're aspiring to - it's important to use that to your benefit, not to let it get you down. Every time you try something out on your instrument, be listening for the effort which worked best, and aim to be able to repeat that first, then to better it. It really frustrates me when I read posts like "have you seen this YouTube vid of nine-year-old prodigy omg I might as well give up now" - it's pointless to think like that. And anyway, said nine-year-old prodigy rarely looks as if they're enjoying themselves...

It's a slow job, learning an instrument, but an adult beginner can still make progress - you'll plateau from time to time, everyone does - and if you can get other like-minded folks to play with you, so much the better - music is such a social activity. I'm still buzzing with excitement, having played in a baroque workshop on Thursday - there were about twelve or thirteen entries, all at different ages, and ranging right across the board in standard, and the thing which came across most of all was the sheer fun involved in making music together, which was further underlined by the inspiring approach of Professor John Butt, who took the class.

By the way - the mountain will always continue to go up - another wonderful thing about music. There's always still more to learn, one of the reasons why I'm very sceptical about the player who says they've "perfected" a piece .

I'm right there with you Kelly! I started the clarinet a couple of years ago (I'm 27 now). I've switched to flute so although I have a couple of year's experience of music, I'm still a total beginner on my instrument. All I can say is that after about a year's worth of lessons on the clarinet, followed by about a year off, (during which I decided that clarinet really wasn't the right instrument for me), starting on the flute has made me realise how much I really did learn during that time. I've got so much more confidence on the flute and even grade 8 seems like something that'll be do-able eventually, rather than a pipe dream!

Enjoy your playing

I remember the day a flute first entered our house, my brother was a natural, playing away like he'd played all his life. 16 year old me, very enthusiastic couldn't get a note out of it at all. What a stupid idea wanting to take up the flute was, I was never going to do it. I persevered and was getting good, but oh my, how hard that D note was, that one near the top of the stave. It was so high... then my teacher showed me her music, there were notes flying out of the top of the stave, loads of lines in the air, cor, she was a musical maestro, what a talent she had, she was absolutely amazing, how the heck could she play all that?! What grade did she have? 4!!!!! I look back and laugh now I'm grade 7. I remember the real break through moment for me was when I put my grade 5 accompaniment CD on and heard lots of "real" music that I could play. Having said that, I still feel I'm only part way up the mountain, there are so many people who are better than me. The only way is up!

Hi Kelly

I started to learn an instrument (piano) about 5 years ago. I am in my 40's so indeed a "late starter" as my teacher kindly puts it! I have never taken any practical exams, but have got to the stage where I am willing to play at our local Music Festival, which I would never have thought possible.

I have enjoyed learning very much indeed. For me, it is quite hard. I do rather very anxious (normal for most adult learners), and that certainly affects learning really good technique as the body is under tension. But it is a very rewarding process and I have achieved a lot. My best advice is to find a teacher who is really experienced with complete adult learners and who understands their needs.

Good luck. Enjoy your lessons and playing. You will learn lots about yourself you never knew!

With danger of boring many of you - I just wanted to reply again to say thanks for all your lovely messages and replies - you can feel the enjoyment that everyone finds in their playing coming out of the screen! - no matter what the standard, aspirations or speed of progress - this enjoyment is overriding - and I'm so pleased to have found it alongside you all!!!

I love Thursday's as it is lesson day and harmonium, I think you're absolutley right - so much is down to finding the right teacher and I very fortunately have - she's simply wonderful. Very particular and very experienced but we laugh together every lesson. I love going.

Suepea - I started keeping a diary of my learning and how it's going/ making me feel when I took up the cello but have now taped myself playing a couple of things including scales - then hope to do the same in a few months and see if I can hear a difference...it would be interesting to do over time. So a great idea thanks.

Thank you again to everyone for their encouraging words and it's so lovely to read other people's stories - I laughed when I read your post phillipa - I think that's how I feel sometimes about other people's standard of playing - but it's all relative isn't it. We should just let the progression happen - I didn't do my degree until after A-levels which was after GCSEs which was after......well it all dates back to learning my alphabet probably!!!

Crawling..then walking ...then running and all that!

Thanks again everyone for the lovely messages x