Oh dear, front page of the Gloucestershire Echo - private teacher (53 year old man) charged with several counts of indecent assault and gross indecency, offences against under 16s.

There has been some discussion on the forums about protecting oneself from malicious accusations of this type. I can understand people's fears. However, it seems to me that people who do this sort of thing tend to target multiple victims. A single accusation would be horrible but probably unlikely to succeed, although potentially very damaging for the teacher.

*shudders*

My friend's ex-teacher refused to accompany her for her grade 5 because she wouldn't let him molest her... he's now in prison.

Good for your friend.

That story is local to me too, just had a look at the paper. It takes me back to when I was about 13 or 14 and was learning the clarinet with an elderly male teacher (who has since died many years ago). He would make very inappropriate and suggestive comments to me and once even chased me round the room. I was too innocent at the time to understand and didn't even tell anybody.

You may shudder. There's part of me hopes for the sake of everyone involved that this is not a genuine case, however this is exactly how events that lead up to the conviction of Brian Davey started. It gave all of his colleagues that awful shudder too, and look how things turned out.

As a Parent this would not really effect me or turn me against a male teacher. Thw girls have men teachers, I would always be careful about leaving them with people generally without being over the top. I do see this sort of thing is why some male teachers insist on a parent being present though.

I'm not encouraging anyone to be negative about male teachers or set any hares running and I agree that common sense is the best defence for all parties. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that decent ordinary people shouldn't get too paranoid about being on their own with kids, because the chances of them getting into trouble are pretty low (and hence I think blanket policies demanding parental presence in lessons etc are a bit OTT).

I'm sure the majority of false allegations would be thrown out because the overwhelming majority of parents and kids would turn round and say 'that's rubbish, he(she) isn't like that'. However, for the odd rogue teacher, there is unlikely to be one single victim, and once someone says 'hang on, this ain't right' and does something about it, there are likely to be others who come forward with corroborating stories - just look at what is happening on Jersey, now.

I am aware of certain individuals that I would not want my child to be alone with and will take steps to make sure that never happens (based on my gut reactions and hearsay, no substantiated evidence, but I'm not prepared to take the risk). I believe that the rest of the adults that my children associate with are responsible, helpful, life-enhancing people.

Kids need male teachers as role models!

Don't forget also David that things can blow back on you unexpectedly. Teachers can often be in a position where they are the object of a teenage crush or infatuation, and the spurned teenager, however professionally it has been done, can turn vindictive and manipulative. It must be common enough, as the examiner brought it up during my talk when doing my diploma. We should all be aware of these things (although my days of being a teenagers idol are gone!) so that we are ready to act if need be.

Any tips on how to handle such situations, Susiejean? I'm sure school teachers get training on those issues. I'd be interested to know what you said in your exam.

Strangley enough, I've had several parents of private pupils say to me, "I bet you're glad you're female, because I'm sure men must get a really hard time working as private teachers".

As a child, when I was having both clarinet and violin lessons through my local arts centre, I was taught only by men, often in a 1-2-1 situation (not enough pupils for a group lesson). Maybe I was lucky, but they were all nice men who I felt comfortable in the company of - and I know for certain that these days, it's still the same - but as you rightly say, many more people are naturally suspicious, even cynical.

The point I will make, is that issues highlighted by this topic have been going on for centuries, thousands of years. What has brought it to the fore in our 21st century world is the use of modern media. Issues like this are no longer swept under the carpet. The current case over in St Helier, Jersey, is one such issue.

SueHM commented that there had been several allegations, this is what makes me feel that, unfortunately this is the real thing. David unfortunately male teachers are being put off becoming teachers because of a few high profile cases.

I also believe we need male teachers. However you have to be so careful to guard yourself against a false accusation. Its hard enough as a woman. Inappropriate touch is a minefield in a subject where touch is often necessary. How do you tell a woman that the reason she is more prone to shoulder pain is she is busty and that already puts strain on her shoulders, its hard enough for a woman to broach without a man mentioning it to her? (Yet when a buxom pupil of mine complained of sore shoulders I was certain at once that the weight she was carrying up front was not her friend, being relatively curvaceous I did have some first hand knowledge.) Then as Susiejean said the teenage crush that goes to far can be a killer, there have been some excellent teachers whose careers have been ruined due to false allegations.

So my comments were made as much as abuse unfortunately does go on and in this case it looks like the real deal. I despise the false allegation brigade. They are responsible for almost removing men from primary school teaching and making it increasingly difficult for those men who want to work with children for the right reasons.

Good for you and keep teaching

You can't not discuss things just because they're unpleasant and (fortunately) don't happen very often. It's also relevant, not just scurrilous gossip, as we're all music teachers, some male.
And I would highly doubt that anyone reading these forums would have been previously unaware that men (and women) who work with children sometimes commit abuse - not unless they never read a paper or turn on the news.
However I do agree that it would be very wrong (and foolish) for anyone to turn against male teachers in general as a result of this recent news article or the related post.

I hope that anyone coming across this this topic would see a balanced and sensible discussion going on, and support for beleaguered male teachers, not a witch-hunt or sensationalism (shame that the same cannot be said of some other media).

I am a male teacher and I regularly teach children 1-2-1 (more often girls) without supervision and never feel vulnerable. End of. Common sense is the best safeguard from such accusations.

Also I don't think there really is any difference in behaviour in general, I think it's just perceptions of what different sexes can do (ie a type of behaviour gets tolerated from a woman but not a man, or gets reported). Guys like Davey et all are one in a million.

Anyone more suspicious over male teachers or less trusting solely on that count need to get a life and learn reality. Blunt but true.

If it's any comfort, my daughter learned violin from two young ('20s) male teachers in her teens, and it never occurred to me to think they would do anything untoward. As an earlier poster said, mums do tend to do their own vetting, and I did try to get to know them a little when I picked up my daughter after the lesson. After all, anyone you walk next to in the street could be a bag-snatcher or a pick-pocket, but you don't spend all your time pondering the possiblity because you know it's unlikely.

Unfortunately, there are rotten apples in the world, but one male instrumental teacher's blotting his copybook should not tar others with the same brush. It's so sad that instead of proceeding as if most people are good and helpful (which they are) we have to suspect everyone these days.

Without wishing in any way to diminish the pain of anyone who has been abused I do think society is really becoming paranoid about this. The enormous majority of children are not abused by their teachers or by anyone else. The above remark by a parent is symptomatic of the acceptance of this paranoid attitude. In a sense I can see the logic of David's point of view - that by discussing the question we contribute to its over exposure and thus to the paranoia. On the other hand I also feel that we do need to say something to contradict it.

In any case I think the stupidity and the ill thought out bandwagoning against male teachers needs to be countered. So perhaps I am going to be too provocative but would certain parents be happier if their daughters were taught by gay men and their sons by gay women? Or would they still find something to be afraid of?

And that's the real irony. Men who behave in an unmanly way are even more victimised than those who uphold the more negative male stereotypes. So a manly man is aggressive, dominant, strong minded, while an unmanly man is seen as unstable. I'm exaggerating now of course so don't get me wrong.

To be perfectly honest I think just reporting cases like this in the press is just an indicment of what the public want to hear. Who will benefit from hearing about cases like these.

On a completely different subject slightly as a holistic therapist I was advised never to do treatments for men which I thought was unprofessional and discriminatory.

personally I would not leave my child with anyone I didn't trust regardless of gender. But I do think that men are judged and treated unfairly especially by the media. I just don't like the way men are portrayed in the media - in fact I don't like the way men or women are portrayed in the media, its very stereotypical.

And I really dislike sayings like 'men are all the same'.

I'm sorry there is nothing much else I can add. I do agree with much that others are saying.

Slightly off topic, but I do remember my daughter's surprise when I told her just before she did her first ever exam - aged 6 - that she would be alone in the exam room with a strange man - when I had been drumming into her for years before that she must never talk to strangers...

My sister works in a beauty salon and refuses to do any sort of treatments for men now. They were getting quite a lot of clients who were just going in for the thrill of having a young woman paw over them

It's a pity they've spoiled it for the genuine ones though - even though I still think it's odd seeing a man in a beauty salon. I must be a bit old fashioned!

My policy of having a parent present does not raise any issues with my parents or pupils. The only issue os bringing a younger child into the lesson which creates distractions. I won't have another child present because it does not distract me but will distract the pupil.

The area I teach in is very culturally diverse so a parent is always present for that reason. In fact I have had parents sign up for lessons themselves. One father insisted on coming with his 20 year old daughter to her first lesson. He now wants separate guitar lessons for himself

I don't get payment problems or issues of none communication as the parent sees what is happening. It does not cramp my style at all because I say what I feel to the pupil or parent in a nonconfrontational way.

Now, this is what works for me as a man in his 60s I do not advocate it for anyone else, but so far it has worked for me. Each teacher must find their own solution.

Obviously I don't have females having crushes on me although I had one female pupil of mature years tell me
"You have everything I want " She meant my jazz piano tuition of course
That is the only kind of swinging I do

Perhaps other victims will be able to find the strength to come forward and together they can secure a conviction? As I read earlier on this thread - "A single accusation would be horrible but probably unlikely to succeed".

Did you actually know the examiner would be a man or does this say something about the way we are conditioned to think ?

My pupils have had more male than female examiners (!) but when preparing them I am always careful to refer to the examiner as "he or she" - until I aml notified of the person's name.

It's not for me to second guess why Sue opened this thread, however, as a music teacher in the Gloucester area it must have been unnerving to pick up the paper and find that a music teacher in her area is facing indecency charges.

As some one who was indecently assulted by one of my class members at secondary school it will always be an area that makes me feel uneasy, yet at the same time I appreciate that both men and women have a lot to offer the teaching profession.

There are rules quite rightly to do with the appropriateness of touch. Yet I find myself as a relatively curvaceous singing teacher teaching breathing techinque using myself as the mannequin. I point on myself at the upper-rib cage opening, the lower-rib cage in the back being the area where air needs to fill, and where the transverse and lateral abdominal muscles are to support the exhaled breath. Yet it is obvious to anyone who is looking that as soon as I breathe in my breasts move northwards.

I have to look carefully at the way my pupils breathe too. Just think how easy it would be to accuse a male singing teacher at looking at a buxom female pupil in an inappropiate manner as he is observing that the chest opens correctly. It is a minefield and she is using her support mechanism correctly.

This is why it is appropriate to discuss this issue.

As a woman teacher. I feel bad enough explaining that shoulder tension is often worse in busty women and that it may be worthwhile doing some exercises to learn to relax the shoulders, get the shoulders back, and acknowledge the strain that this extra weight in front is putting on your shoulders... and thats from a been there done that and got the t-shirt position. I can't even imagine how a man can broach the subject before the word "abuse" is hurled, yet wind teachers and singing teachers must come accross this problem all the time is they have any interest in ergonomics.

So I can see what a minefield there is. How easy it is to be accused in complete innocence, know what abuse (in my case it was mainly in the form of harassment) and yet know how importance it is to catch those wo really are subjecting their pupils to terror.

You make some very valid points Jod, but I still think the publicising of stories like these in the press and wider media these days is excessive and has contributed to the paranoia that is depriving todays children of the freedom to play outside like we used to and countless other things (lessons, trips etc.). Paedophiles haven't suddenly sprung up in the last 10 years or so, we are just made more aware of them now. If ever ignorance was bliss. Discussing on a forum like this is understandable, but the press have a field day with this type of news.

You also mention it is hard enough for women these days, which illustrates it is not a problem unique to male teachers. Also ask yourself, when did we last hear of a teacher in court for 'physically correcting technique' or 'looking at someone's body to prevent bad habits creeping in'. Should I stop telling girls they are slouching or bending their knee playing wind instruments or watch their pedalling on the piano (looking at girls legs). I think not, that is part of teaching the instruments I do.

Cases like these and Davey go way beyond normal teaching situations, and it is the rare cases that get reported.

Gosh Neil, I forgot that you are looking at their legs, their bottoms (sticking them out makings sure they're not sway-backed) and their cleavages. Taken in the wrong context all sorts of allegations could be made.

I didn't know until the day. It hadn't occurred to me to think about it, but when we arrived at the centre there was a notice up saying "Your examiner today is Mr X".

I think my younger daughter's first examiner was female, but because it was a cello exam and she walked in with her teacher (who accompanied her) it didn't seem such a big deal.