Clari Nicki1
Feb 28 2008, 08:14 PM
Hi... I have a male pupil who is 12 and has his Gr 3 on the 20th March. He came for his lesson today and I was doing aural tests and he couldn't pitch his notes.He was serching for the octave below, or scaling the heights and squeaking. He has had full marks in his Gr 1 and 2 aural tests and has never had a problem before. I asked "Is your voice breaking?" "Yes" came the reply.... "It's just started". He was really struggling..... when he has never before. He just couldn't sing back.... he was doing better whistling...... so any advice? I'm not too sure what to do as I'm a fairly new teacher and have teach mainly girls. Can I help him?
Lucid
Feb 28 2008, 08:20 PM
I'm afraid I don't yet have any first hand experience of this and I don't know what you can do when the voice is changing - I'm sure many singing teachers would know though. But they are allowed to whistle back in the exam so you might be better off working on that if it's something he can be more comfortable with.
Lucid
sbhoa
Feb 28 2008, 08:24 PM
Maybe he would have a little more control humming?
Possibly the best you can do in the end is to let the examiner know and just tell him to do his best.
If everything else is secure enough it won't have a big impact on his overall marks.
He should get some credit for a prompt response and correct rhythm even if the pitching is a bit wayward.
Teigr
Feb 28 2008, 08:51 PM
Give him plenty of practice at whistling the tests between now and the exam, so he's got the option of doing it that way in the exam.
Make sure the examiner knows.
I had a really great examiner last term who took the time to work out what my range was that day (it had been all over the place for weeks, so I never knew quite what it was going to be) and transposed my tests into the very limited range where I had fairly reliable pitch. He'd started off with a note (middle D) that I just couldn't get the right octave for, then tried a few others to work out what I could get and what would set me yo-yoing between octaves, then aimed the tests in the safe zone (I think he took it down by a perfect 5th to tenor G).
He also offered me the option of whistling or playing back on my instrument, but I've always sung the tests before and hadn't thought to practice doing them the other ways.
T.
maggiemay
Feb 28 2008, 08:52 PM
In practical terms it's quite a tricky time for him, as his voice will be totally unpredictable, (as you have probably already found ). If he does try to sing it must be done very gently.
Be matter of fact if he produces bass notes one day and treble ones the next, and remind him that awkward though it is for him, it is entirely normal. Above all don't let him worry about it. It's a very small part of the overall exam.
If he's doing better whistling he might prefer to stick to that. The examiner will be used of course to meeting boys with changing voices and should be sympathetic, helping him find a way round it.
barry-clari
Feb 28 2008, 09:51 PM
I think there's something in the exam regulations that says that boys with breaking voices are allowed to whistle - when I did my grade 4 clarinet exam many moons ago, I whistled through all the singing tests in the aural.
Teigr
Feb 29 2008, 12:31 AM
For the echo test, you can sing, hum, whistle or play it on your instrument.
For the sight-singing you can do any of those apart from playing your instrument.
As far as I can tell, they don't really care how you produce the notes - all they're interested in is which notes you produce.
T.
Maizie
Feb 29 2008, 08:26 AM
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Feb 28 2008, 09:51 PM)

I think there's something in the exam regulations that says that boys with breaking voices are allowed to whistle - when I did my grade 4 clarinet exam many moons ago, I whistled through all the singing tests in the aural.
Boys with changing voices may whistle or hum an octave lower.
Anyone is allowed to hum as an alternative to singing; you still make the sound in the same way but some people (e.g. me) feel happier humming than singing.
The exact words from the aural regs:
QUOTE
For any test which requires a ‘sung’ response, pitch rather than vocal quality is the object. The examiner will keep within the vocal compass of the candidate, who may sing ‘lah’ or any vowel sound or may hum. Boys with changing voices may whistle or may hum an octave lower.
sbhoa
Feb 29 2008, 11:30 AM
QUOTE(Maizie @ Feb 29 2008, 08:26 AM)

QUOTE(barry-clari @ Feb 28 2008, 09:51 PM)

I think there's something in the exam regulations that says that boys with breaking voices are allowed to whistle - when I did my grade 4 clarinet exam many moons ago, I whistled through all the singing tests in the aural.
Boys with changing voices may whistle or hum an octave lower.
Anyone is allowed to hum as an alternative to singing; you still make the sound in the same way but some people (e.g. me) feel happier humming than singing.
The exact words from the aural regs:
QUOTE
For any test which requires a ‘sung’ response, pitch rather than vocal quality is the object. The examiner will keep within the vocal compass of the candidate, who may sing ‘lah’ or any vowel sound or may hum. Boys with changing voices may whistle or may hum an octave lower.
It's still a new skill to learn in a very short space of time in this instance.
jod
Feb 29 2008, 11:38 AM
I would suggest humming. Its much easier to control a changing voice that way. Whistling is hard work, and although you're allowed to play things back on your instrument, this is not an easy option.
Get him to practise humming first, its the easiest option. You tend not to get the violent swings between treble voice and new male voice. Advise the examiner as respose tests closer to middle C will be easier to reproduce.
sbhoa
Feb 29 2008, 11:40 AM
QUOTE(jod @ Feb 29 2008, 11:38 AM)

I would suggest humming. Its much easier to control a changing voice that way. Whistling is hard work, and although you're allowed to play things back on your instrument, this is not an easy option.
Get him to practise humming first, its the easiest option. You tend not to get the violent swings between treble voice and new male voice. Advise the examiner as respose tests closer to middle C will be easier to reproduce.
You can't play back at grade 3.
jod
Feb 29 2008, 12:23 PM
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Feb 29 2008, 11:40 AM)

QUOTE(jod @ Feb 29 2008, 11:38 AM)

I would suggest humming. Its much easier to control a changing voice that way. Whistling is hard work, and although you're allowed to play things back on your instrument, this is not an easy option.
Get him to practise humming first, its the easiest option. You tend not to get the violent swings between treble voice and new male voice. Advise the examiner as respose tests closer to middle C will be easier to reproduce.
You can't play back at grade 3.
Well that rules probably the hardest option out. Humming is probably the best solution anyway, and that's coming from a singing teacher!
possom
Feb 29 2008, 01:03 PM
I have a pupil taking grade 6 this term. His voice has broken but he is now stuck inbetween pitches. He can't sing the written pitch and if we transpose it down an octave he can't reach the lower notes!!! We have been focusing on the rhythms and pitching notes within the key if a note is outside his range although he will be mentioning that his voice is quite unpredictable at the moment in the exam.
Teigr
Feb 29 2008, 01:33 PM
QUOTE(possom @ Feb 29 2008, 01:03 PM)

I have a pupil taking grade 6 this term. His voice has broken but he is now stuck inbetween pitches. He can't sing the written pitch and if we transpose it down an octave he can't reach the lower notes!!! We have been focusing on the rhythms and pitching notes within the key if a note is outside his range although he will be mentioning that his voice is quite unpredictable at the moment in the exam.
The examiner might be willing/able to transpose into a key that's within his range.
I was given a sight-reading test where the first note was written as D next to middle C (treble clef). I struggled to pitch that D reliably, but starting on the D below was going to make other parts of the test too low. (The test had notes above and below D in it and those Ds were the extremes of my useable range.)
The examiner checked that I didn't have perfect pitch and then started the test on what I think was the G in the middle of those two Ds.
It might help if he can work out his useable range on the day, so he can just tell the examiner what it is, but I didn't know mine and the examiner just tried a few notes to see which I could match without going off into different octaves, then set the test in the appropriate range.
T.
jenny
Feb 29 2008, 01:43 PM
QUOTE(jod @ Feb 29 2008, 12:38 PM)

I would suggest humming. Its much easier to control a changing voice that way. Whistling is hard work, and although you're allowed to play things back on your instrument, this is not an easy option.
Get him to practise humming first, its the easiest option. You tend not to get the violent swings between treble voice and new male voice. Advise the examiner as respose tests closer to middle C will be easier to reproduce.

I have quite a few students who don't want to sing to 'la', but will happily hum.
jod
Feb 29 2008, 02:46 PM
QUOTE(jenny @ Feb 29 2008, 01:43 PM)

QUOTE(jod @ Feb 29 2008, 12:38 PM)

I would suggest humming. Its much easier to control a changing voice that way. Whistling is hard work, and although you're allowed to play things back on your instrument, this is not an easy option.
Get him to practise humming first, its the easiest option. You tend not to get the violent swings between treble voice and new male voice. Advise the examiner as respose tests closer to middle C will be easier to reproduce.

I have quite a few students who don't want to sing to 'la', but will happily hum.
Go to Viva voice and look at what singers tend to use as warm up exercises and it is amazing how many of them find a comfy bit of the voice and gently hum at first just gently working on placing where the voice works best before stretching.
Using this principle, it doesn't take much imagination for a boy with a changing coice to find his fifth or sicth that is working on any one day and let the examiner know those notes. The using humming as a way to ease vocal production hum their recall exercise.
There is a lot of work done on boys with changing voices they nearly all have a range they can use on any one day as their voices actually slide more than break. Sure there are the swing between the higher treble notes and their evolving adult voice, but use the bit of their voice that is working properly for aural training with humming to avoid strain.
Boys are able to speak during this time and normally find a speaking range. You can use the notes of thei speaking range as singing notes.
The old idea that boys should never sing as their voices are changing is now passe due to a lot of research work. The important thing is always use the part of the voice that is feeling comfortable.
Clari Nicki1
Feb 29 2008, 06:52 PM
Thank you for all the replies. I shall try to find his range on the day.
Any suggestions as to how to tell the examiner..... via pupil? Local rep? Accompanist???
I have learnt lots from your replies.... all the info is being stored in my head as my 11 year old boy sings.......
I didn't realise their range could change daily...... or that it could be quite so limited!!!
Thanks again..... This boy is usually pretty strong at aural and it would be a pity for this experience to put him off.
possom
Feb 29 2008, 07:40 PM
QUOTE(Teigr @ Feb 29 2008, 01:33 PM)

QUOTE(possom @ Feb 29 2008, 01:03 PM)

I have a pupil taking grade 6 this term. His voice has broken but he is now stuck inbetween pitches. He can't sing the written pitch and if we transpose it down an octave he can't reach the lower notes!!! We have been focusing on the rhythms and pitching notes within the key if a note is outside his range although he will be mentioning that his voice is quite unpredictable at the moment in the exam.
The examiner might be willing/able to transpose into a key that's within his range.
I was given a sight-reading test where the first note was written as D next to middle C (treble clef). I struggled to pitch that D reliably, but starting on the D below was going to make other parts of the test too low. (The test had notes above and below D in it and those Ds were the extremes of my useable range.)
The examiner checked that I didn't have perfect pitch and then started the test on what I think was the G in the middle of those two Ds.
It might help if he can work out his useable range on the day, so he can just tell the examiner what it is, but I didn't know mine and the examiner just tried a few notes to see which I could match without going off into different octaves, then set the test in the appropriate range.
T.
Thanks for that, very useful information
Hope all goes well for your pupil Clari Nicki1
Lucid
Mar 1 2008, 02:00 PM
QUOTE(Clari Nicki1 @ Feb 29 2008, 06:52 PM)

Any suggestions as to how to tell the examiner..... via pupil? Local rep? Accompanist???
You should just need to tell the steward (local rep) who will tell the examiner when they see the candidate into the room. But also prepare your student to tell the examiner themselves if the steward doesn't. I remember I told a steward that one of my students wanted to start with their scales (as they hadn't had sufficient warm up time) and the steward had never heard that they could choose what they start the exam with so told my student he would have to ask the examiner himself! If your student doesn't want a fuss made he could just mention it to the examiner himself when he gets to that part of the exam. I think with boys they usually try to find a comfortable range for them anyway.
Lucid
oboist
Mar 1 2008, 03:20 PM
Experience of my "changing voice" boy students is that the examiners are very kind and give them plenty of help in finding a suitable pitch and/or asking them where they want the tests played/pitched.
I would advise humming but even that can be problematic to someone who hasn't sung regularly as a treble. I've had a few boys who found humming very hard but could usually whistle. At Grade 3 the use of the voice is very short anyway, so not worth getting in a big panic about it. If you look at the Aural criteria for assessment in "These Music Exams", he can make a mess of Test B and still get a good result overall. Not encouraging a mess of course but do comfort him that the world doesn't stop and he doesn't fail grade 3 if he cannot sing!
That said, once his voice is more settled do encourage him to use it - as the grades go higher the amount of singing increases dramatically and he'll need some skills in place by Grade 6.
Good Luck to him - hope it goes really well.
hello_cello
Mar 1 2008, 09:43 PM
lucky him... im almost 14 and a half and my voice hasnt broken...
Clari Nicki1
Mar 1 2008, 10:05 PM
QUOTE(hello_cello @ Mar 1 2008, 09:43 PM)

lucky him... im almost 14 and a half and my voice hasnt broken...
I understand you want your voice to break... but it's not good just before an exam!!! He was my first absolute beginner when I started teaching (I inherited a few other pupils) and I'm rather fond of him, quirky as he is, and he is usually so good at aural. He plays fast, his fingers move quickly, but intonation isn't high on his agenda.... he needs the marks on aural.... he got 130 in Gr 3 and was so chuffed with himself!!!!!!
One of the girls I inherited when I began teaching is doing her Gr 4 this time... she does my head in as every exam she leaves everything until the last minute.... and has always pulled it off to date (getting 136 last time) but she appears really to not know her scales properly right now. I suppose voices breaking when I have enough to worry about other candidates who leave it all to the end (and my daughter having a wobbly about her Gr5... see thread in Parents forum).... has been a bit too much. I need to put it all into perspective... It's nop big deal... his whistling is better than mine!!!! He'll be fine!!!!!!! (as long as he doesn't play the pieces too fast!!!!)
hello_cello
Mar 1 2008, 10:47 PM
yeh, id kill for my voice to break

But hed be fine just whistling, or humming, they dont really care how its produced i think its just the pitch that matters.
Im hoping my voice is changing. or i have laryngitis.
I'd rather it be the first
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