One of my adult pupils on clarinet has just asked me to teach her 8 year old son (nearly 9) on saxophone. He is really keen and wants to go ahead, but I've not taught anyone this young before, only 9 or 10. We had our first go yesterday and I took a 1 1/2 Vandoren reed for him to see if he could manage. He got the mouthpiece (just) with a lot of effort, and a very honky 'B' on the sax. I told him it will improve with time.

I know a lot of people who dislike size 1 reeds (harder to get now by the looks of it) for a lot of reasons, and although I started with them many years ago I can see the point. Does anyone have experience of teaching 8 year olds on sax or clarinet, or have relevant experiences. My instinct is to carry on with the 1 1/2s but wonder if it is taking too much effort.

As you will know, there are a number of reasons why he may find this difficult besides the hardness of reed - embouchure, breath support, even type of reed. I can't make a decent sound with Vandorens on sax for love nor money.

1.5 vandoren is about 2 Rico - why not try him on 1.5 or 2 Rico - I've never used less than 2 rico at any stage, including my very first honks (though I was older than 10...)!

nick

Thanks Nick. I do know hardness of the reed is not everything , but did wonder what the general opinion was as I don't have much experience teaching young kids or absolute beginners any age for that matter. Rico could be a possibility. Personally I use Vandoren blue box '3', and on clarinet can't decide between blue box, silver box 3.5, black box 3.5, 3.5+. Big minefield.

I expect progress will be slow and will have to make it fun somehow.

I get all of my beginners using 1.5 and they are all fine - but I haven't taught anyone younger than 10. Normally on the sax I find that if they aren't getting a sound in the first lesson it's because they haven't got the right embouchure, usually coupled with trying to blow too hard. If he's small then it will also be very physically demanding on him to hold the sax, let alone get the notes. An exercise I find useful for them to find the correct embouchure pressure is to get them to start blowing with a completely slack embouchure. The idea is that they gradually increase the lip pressure equally (like a circle) until they hear a clear note. The sound should progress from a hiss to a clear note. This helps them to understand how firm their embouchure needs to be. I've used this with all of my beginners and it's worked so far.

I use Vandorens myself, although used Ricos when I was learning. I am only on 2 for my sax as I don't need anymore than that, and 3 for my clarinet. I was taught that you should always use the strongest you can on the clarinet and the weakest possible on saxophone - without losing any quality in sound. It seems to work for me.

Thinking about it the majority of my beginners probably use 1.5 Ricos as they are cheaper than Vandoren, so they will be using a softer version of a 1.5. This reed chart is useful for comparisons:

http://www.dawkes.co.uk/images/reed_information.pdf

Good luck. Lucid

I have an 8 year old taking Gr 1 this session. She began Mar last year (she'd have been 7) on an Eb clarinet. She has coped well with 1 1/2 reeds and uses a 2 now (Rico reeds.... not Vandoren). She didn't make a good sound at first, but by September was playing a Bb clarinet and making a nice sound. I think the instrument is still a little big for her, but she's done well.
I have another Yr 4 pupil just starting the clarinet... and she has good sized hands and is larger (taller) than my Gr 1 8 year old. She is doing really well. She has never had puffy cheeks, got a note first lesson. She held a note for 14 seconds this week. She uses a Rico 1 and 1/2.
However, I have another pupil, yr 3 (8 years old) who isn't doing so well (playing since September). She began on Eb, but I have now transferred her to a Bb. She still has puffy cheeks and honks. Still... she enjoys composition and has produced some lovely music. We do lots of clapping games. Every week, I attempt to improve embouchure. She enjoys playing with CD accompaniments. But yes, progress is slow.
I also have a 12 year old beginner who's progress is slow!!! So I think it depends on the individual child, their size (to a certain extent), their motivation and support at home. All of mine have managed a 1 1/2 reed at first (Rico or Rico royale) and then some transfer to Vandorens etc. It has been nothing to do with age! My yr 4 beginner has made steady progress.... she's just 9 I think. She can tongue and slur. She is playing Stage 6 of Clarinet Basics and has had 6 lessons. She doesn't find reading music that easy but that is improving.

Well my sister started clarinet when she was 7 on a vandoren 3.....

So its definitely possible.

I would definately say try Rico reeds instead. They're quite a bit softer (and a lot cheaper )

Totally agree.... my young pupils at first keep breaking reeds... so I advise cheaper reeds until they get through this phase!!!!!!!! (It's not a very long phase..... parent's usually get cross at them and they learn to take care quite quickly).

8/9 is quite young to start on sax - they're a good bit heavier than clarinets, though they're probably a bit easier to blow.

I'm not a teacher but if I were in your shoes I probably wouldn't try a softer reed just yet, not being able to get much of a sound after just one lesson isn't necessarily a problem. It might be worth checking the mouthpiece though. If he's using one of the cheap student saxes, then the mouthpiece that came with it may not be up to much. The plastic Yamaha 4C mouthpieces are fairly cheap and reliable and could be a good investment.

Interesting responses. Looks like 1 1/2 will do just now.

I did give him a careful talk about looking after reeds. I see far too many kids damage them so quickly.

Not just kids. The majority of adults I teach don't seem to appreciate that they can't put the reed on by pushing down on the top, despite me reminding them all the time, and they don't seem to notice when they give it a knock or scrape either.

I have to say I hate 1 1/2 reeds with a passion! I find normally adults and most children can start on a Vandoren 2. I will use a 1 1/2 if they are only 7 or 8 (clarinet and sop sax, not alto obviously!) or really struggle with a 2. However by Grade 1, all but one of my pupils have been on 2's.

I think i was playing on a size 2 reed when i was 6 And i am TINY. I'm not sure if it was a size 2 or a 1 and a half... but when i started lessons age 7, after a while my teacher suggested trying a size 1 but we couldn't find one but i don't see why i needed one - i was fine with what i had. Though i had to have a neck sling to hold my clarinet as i was so small
Also i wouldn't reccomend trying rico over vandoren. In my experience Vandoren are much better for clarinet. Vandoren go great on clarinet but bad on saxophone, and rico go bad on clarinet and great on saxophone