The 'throat notes' thread has grown into an interesting discussion about the whys and wherefores of clarinet keywork/fingerings, and I think it's worthy of its own thread.

So let's talk about things such as alternative fingerings for altissimo notes, do you like using the alternative fingering for middle line Bb, do you prefer using left hand or right hand C, or are you 'little finger ambidextrous'?

Post away!

I think after a point you have to be 'little-finger ambidextrous' but given the choice I will go for RH B and LH C/C#. The only time I use the alternative Bb is when I have to trill, its too awkward really..

Playing the clarinet is an excersize in compromising!

I'm definately a RH C person.
Can't seem to reliably find the LH one....
Don't know much about alternative fingerings though... I suppose that's one disadvantage with not having regular lessons.

In slower music, going from things like throat G and A, it's well worth considering using the alternative Bb Rosemary I think.

What about the top top notes? I mean A and higher. What fingerings do people use up there? I can get up to a C# but bizarrely I can't remember where B and C are... For A I use thumb/rk, RH 23 and C# key, and for Bb I add the A key.

Barry - I shall consider it. I've never really listened to the sound of it before, having only used it for trills!

I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised Rosemary!

I use the alternative throat B flat (throat A and second trill key down) wherever possible, as the normal one is pretty diabolical on my B&H 1010! The alternative sounds 100 times better!

re choice of C (4th space up) I prefer right hand C, but most of my little students use the left initially due to small hand size!

Every player, and clarinet is different, so everyone will have their own preferences i'm sure.

I'd be interested in how to get the alternative low Eb/D# fingerings to work well. The one using D+lower side key works OK, but I cannot get the ones using E+right hand first or second finger to work well at all. They always seem horribly weak and and a bit flat.

Don't really have problems with the standard 'pinched' fingering for throat Bb, but never really liked the alternative. I've also managed to get the B itself by experimenting with the side keys - not sure if that's an accepted alternative or not though. The sound of both the alternatives, the Bb and the B, were definitely different to the regular fingerings though, and didn't fit in with the rest of the clarinet.

Not really interested in the very high notes. I find venturing into 'window cleaner' territory a bit too painful, both to play and to listen to!

Here we go...

A : same fingering as altissimo E
Bb : same fingering as altissimo F for really quick moves, RK 1,2,3/1,2,3 F-C key for anything where you can really hear the Bb
B : RK 1,2/1,2 F#-C# key
C : RK 1/1 , then usually the Ab-Eb key, but for quick moves to/from B, I'll stay on the F#-C# key

Thats interesting... I finger A same as an F.... And I know that works as I've played it in accompanied pieces and its in tune! Thanks for the B/C fingerings, though given the difference between our A/Bb they probably won't work for me...

Jon S - my theory in playing very very high notes is that if I can get a half decent tone up there, it'll transfer down the range And it annoys my Dad!

You've got a Hanson haven't you Rosemary? Very interesting your selection of fingerings are!

In the top register there are so many different fingerings that it is quite likely what works for you may not for me and vice versa...

If you really want to have fun with high notes, look at the www.wfg.woodwind.org website...there's a chart there that includes notes up to the A an octave above what we would usually consider to be the highest A on the clarinet!

Aha! Thats the link I lost when my hard drive died Thanks Barry! I do indeed have a Hanson - I tried all the Buffets and just didn't really like them, and the Yamaha keywork felt really strange to my hand.

All being well, I'll give some of the advanced Hansons a good looking at later this year sometime. It'll be fascinating to see if my chosen fingerings work well on it.

I didn't really get on with the advanced Yamahas either.

I think we've discussed this before Rosemary, but the highest note I've seen in printed music is altissimo C...

Shall we move on?...

What's your preferred fingering for bottom line Eb? I tend to use D fingering plus fourth trill key. I don't really like using the LH banana key...

I prefer using the LH banana key, something my teacher told me off for because I was using it in combination with notes like C I've never been able to get on with the 1/1 fingering, in either register, so I've got quite good at getting to and from the RH trill keys

The 'long' Eb/Bb fingering you mention is a fingering I tend to only use when it's easier to do that. I do use the right hand banana key quite a lot (for 'fork' chalumeau B/clarion F#).

Sorry, this is nothing to do with the topic really - it's just that ever since I've been on the forums your A clarinet fund has been stuck at £500, and I wondered if you are ever likely to buy one? Just being nosy!!

I've tried that alternative and it sounds beautiful! I've tried to use it in the "flat" scales/arps that I'm practising but it's very difficult. Is it possible to use it in scales with practise, or is it best to keep it for pieces which are fairly slow?


I always use the right hand C. Now that I've written that, I can see that I probably ought to practice using the left hand C! At the moment I only use the left hand C when I have to, eg if I need my RH for an Eb.

I used to find the right hand clarion C# really awkward, but now that the thumbrest is higher up, I find it quite easy now.



For some reason I quite like using the "long" Eb/Bb key. I wonder why it is that you actively *enjoy* using some keys

Since I last updated my signature, I decided to do World Challenge, so my fund has been growing a bit more slowly! I'm not entirely sure how much I have any more, but I will change my sig

[quote]

do you like using the altenative fingering for Bb?

I've tried that alternative and it sounds beautiful! I've tried to use it in the "flat" scales/arps that I'm practising but it's very difficult. Is it possible to use it in scales with practise, or is it best to keep it for pieces which are fairly slow?
[/quote]

The alternative Bb is great in pieces that are fairly slow, and you're not going to/from a note that requires a lot of fingers.
Scale wise, it's awkward to use in most, as inevitably you've got a note such as B or C to play afterwards. Putting some right hand fingers down does help a bit with the regular fingering for Bb, and you can use the alternative for one octave of Bb major, a set scale for grade 3.
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[quote]
do you prefer using left hand or right hand C, or are you 'little finger ambidextrous'?

I always use the right hand C. Now that I've written that, I can see that I probably ought to practice using the left hand C! At the moment I only use the left hand C when I have to, eg if I need my RH for an Eb.

I used to find the right hand clarion C# really awkward, but now that the thumbrest is higher up, I find it quite easy now.
[/quote]

It is well worth practising to be 'little finger ambidextrous', if you can. Very useful when you're playing at speed.
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[quote]
The 'long' Eb/Bb fingering you mention is a fingering I tend to only use when it's easier to do that. I do use the right hand banana key quite a lot (for 'fork' chalumeau B/clarion F#).
[/quote]
For some reason I quite like using the "long" Eb/Bb key. I wonder why it is that you actively *enjoy* using some keys
[/quote]

To take the 'D fingering plus 4th trill key' Eb as an example, Eb will often have D preceding/following it, and it's just so much easier in that case to get to the 4th trill key fingering than 'long' Eb (1/1) I find, especially at speed.

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Edit : the quotes don't seem to have worked properly. I've put dotted lines between everything, and made my new replies bold to make it a little easier to read (I hope)....

I think its the last one that hasn't worked - try putting a second [quote] in straight after the first

Anything that involves moving one finger up and putting another down counts as awkward in my book. Unfortunately it has to be done sometimes...

You're quite clearly a fan of the fork low B fingering then...

Yeah!! Fork fingerings all the way

I'm just doing a bit a sightreading practice and I got stopped in my tracks when I came across Low E, followed by F# and then G#. I'd completely forgotten the alternative Low E and couldn't fathom out how to get the notes I've just checked on the Low E alternative, eek I'd better practice that one!

you'll be ambidextrous with your little fingers before you know it!

Thats why I always try to read at least 4 notes ahead Even with alternative fingerings I've found places which you have not option but to choose the best one to slide across or switch fingering on 1 note.

I've just come across one of those really odd coincidences I thought I'd play Night and Day from the First Repertoire book and the last few notes are the Bb on the middle line... and there's an asterisk to a footnote at the bottom which tells you to use the side Bb fingering. That's really weird - I've never come across that fingering before and now that's twice in about 24 hours

It is a very nice, clear Bb, just a shame it's so awkward to get to so much of the time...

I've learned a lot from this thread - in particular, how much more sensible the saxophone is as an instrument!
;-)

!!! How can you say that!!??! Clarinet Rules!!!!

Seriously - all these alternatives make clarinet easier once you can get your head around them Saxophone is easier to get to grips with, but I hate all the sliding you have to do to make it do what you want...

I use your fingering Barry-clari for Eb, although I do remember being taught initially using the banana key. I also use 1 and 1 or 1 and middle when I need to. I also am a right hand F/C person, although again I was taught left hand F/C first.
I agree that there is no comparison between clarinet and sax, although sax can be quite fun!

I really like the fact that for clarinet fingerings you almost never have to slide across keys - there's always (bar G#/D#) a RH and LH fingering so you can choose the one that makes sense and alternate between right and left little fingers. It's much neater and quicker than having to mess around on the rollers at the bottom of the sax. In a piece I'm playing at the moment there's a trill on bottom B, the piece is in A major (for alto) so that should be a low B to C# trill. I think that's pretty near impossible on sax, luckily given the context of the trill and the notes surrounding it I'm pretty sure it should be a B/C natural trill - that's the one I'm playing anyway!

I try to use the side key for mid line Bb as much as possible.

The long Eb only works in very fast passages, the long Bb is much nicer. Since starting to play a lot of bass clarinet I've been tending to use the forked low B and forked F# as they seem to have a nicer tone on most of the basses I've come across.

As for little finger keys, I used to have a LH bias, now tend to be ambidextrous. Though when really bored in rehearsals will insist on playing repeated Cs etc on a different side for each note.........well you have to do something to keep yourself amused!