How would you describe a stringed instrument that was made during the early baroque period but has since been adapted, as most instruments have been. to suit modern playing styles? I have described it as a baroque instrument but others have disagreed.

I read somewhere that all Stradivari violins were originally made with a short neck attached to the body so the fingerboard lay flat to the instrument. As far as I know only one or two survive in the original form because most had their necks re-set to accomodate 'modern' playing.

Considering all violins now have the 'new' set for the neck to me a truly 'baroque' instrument would have to be one not modernised which would be extremely difficult to play anything other than very early music.

Of course I'm not an expert (before somebody jumps down my neck) but I'll try and find out the relevant dates.

I think the term Baroque violin, cello etc would these days be used more normally to describe the dimensions/ setup of an instrument rather than when it was made. It is a term to descibe a period instrument even if it was made last year. If I heard a group was playing Vivaldi Four Seasons for example on period instruments or baroque instruments I wouldn't expect them necessarily to have been made in the 17th century (and would not be in the least surprised if some of them were practically brand new) and I also wouldn't expect them to be playing on a collection of strads with modern setup and modern bows.

I saw a Strad Baroque violin in the Met museum in New York They claim this is the only one in existence and even this one has been restored to it's original form after being 'modernised'



Beautiful isn't it

It seems that Baroque violinists either have to buy new purpose made Baroque instruments or have old ones 'retro-fitted'.

I'm guessing the answer to the original query is it depends if you are using the term Baroque to describe the era the violin was made or the form it takes. In which case a modern violin could be described as Baroque if it had the wedge fingerboard etc, and an old violin that had been modernised could also be described as Baroque.

Hi Lottie,

I think (am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination) that one of the only Strads to survive in original form is "The Messiah" (1716) in the Ashmolean (sp?) museum in Oxford.

I saw the article by the luthier Hieronymus Kostler where he mentioned it in this months "The Strad" magazine.

Cheers,

Matt.

I'm sure the Messie has been modernised...shame isn't it. I'll check.

In any case I think earplugs has it right on what we interpret as period instruments today.


Photo of the Messie

That has a modern angled fingerboard hasn't it?

Villaume has a lot to answer for

Hi Jane,

I'll bow to your experience. I'm still very much in the early learning stage with violins, I was just going from what I'd read. Lovely to see it though.

I'm also in agreement with earplugs. It sounds a lot like the way the term is used in the guitar world (as a baroque guitar is a very different animal than the modern instrument).

Cheers,

Matt.

Interesting article here on the differences.



no 1 is Baroque with the shorter wedge fingerboard

no 2 is modern with the angled fingerboard

There are other differences but this is the easiest to spot

Yes he has, because he's also cut down (in size) instruments and replaced the backs on other Stradivari violins!

What we need to remember however, is that until relatively recently, keeping an instrument in its original condition (as far as the body and varnish is concerned) was never really considered an issue. If a back, belly or rib was badly split it just got removed and a new one put on - a bit like fitting new body panels to a motor car.

Regrettably the Americans have been some of the worst fiends for 'tarting' up old instruments and giving them a nice fresh shiney coat of varnish We are so glad that the Viotti (ex-Bruce) Strad - which has most of its original varnish in tact - didn't end up across the pond, because you can bet someone would have given that instrument a shiney new look too.

@ both Jane and Amanda

Just by coincidence I was reading Toby Faber's book "Stradivarius: Five violins, one 'cello and a genius" shortly after posting today and on page 146 it goes into Villaume making the same alterations to the Messiah as he did to all the other instruments (I got this book out of the library to find out a bit more about this beautiful and charming new instrument in my life).

Similar digrams to yours Jane but thank you for them.

Strangely though, the fawning tone of the book, whilst making me appreciate the genius of Stradivarius, had me cheering when Paganini wound up not playing a Strad (his "Cannon" being a Del Gesu). The guitarist part of me still screams that it is the player above all.

Cheers,

Matt.

It does just what it says on the tin

Yes, Ronseal crossed my mind as well.

I'm a Paganini fan too and applaud him for playing a 'del Gesu'.

When the instrument was brought to the RAM in the UK a couple of years ago, everyone who heard it (and those who played it), were blown away by its tonal quality and power of sound - even though they were using plain gut strings and a replica of the bridge it would have had when Paganini played the violin.