Does anyone find that, if they're part of a school music group, they're asked to perform or attend rehearsals without really being given the option to refuse? Our school's terrible for doing that. If you have prior commitments, or more pressing ones, you're frowned upon. Is it just me?

The school have also allegedly taken our payment for concerts before, without telling us that we were getting paid in the first place.

Definately not! My teachers automatically expect me to be at every rehearsal happening, and there is no valid reason to be missing any of them.

I have actually just finished writing a Piano Sonata and, just yesterday i over heard my teacher telling another pupil what will be being performed in a concert roughly 3 weeks from now. And oh yes, included in this list was my performance of my Piano Sonata, which i really have little chance of performing at a great standard. I guess when you get to a certain stage some teachers will expect almost far too much of you.

No it's definitely not just you, it's extremely annoying! (A bit off topic but still...), I've been asked before to prepare three pieces the week before something was happening , it was a nightmare but I managed it, but I was really flattered they thought I could do it! But yes, sometimes I do feel a bit frowned upon if I can't go to a rehersal which always makes me feel a bit guilty ! I agree with beethovenpianist, sometimes teachers can expect too much from you; I think they sometimes forget that we all have other things to do such as homework or whatever.

PS. Just read that last bit on the original post properly! That is terrible!

Nope your not alone! My teacher expected me to be there for every Wind Band practise after school and because I couldn't make it due to GCSE revision lessons and a million coursework deadlines, I think I've been replaced.

Same here.
I don't mind too much being asked to do last minute concerts/performances - i enjoy performing and generally always have a fair few things prepared to performance standard. So i always do this when i'm asked. I also am in charge of string group, i go to flute group, clarinet group, big band, wind band, choir, etc. and i turn up to every rehersal. I even give up my own time to help younger pupils in the school bands get to grips with the pieces before a concert.
I'm completely devoted to all the music stuff in my school - yet when i said i couldnt be in the band for a school show as i had other things on they didn't believe me. First time in 6 years i haven't been able to do something and they took it badly, gossiping about me etc. I told them i'd have loved to be in it and was glad they wanted me to be in it but unfortunately i couldnt make the rehersals or the actual show due to a mixture of work, other orchestras, a violin exam, a concert, my private flute lessons and competing in national festival of music for youth, yet they still thought i wasn't telling the truth. Every day i got 'where were you at rehersals today?' i told you 3 weeks ago i can't do it! x_x
I even got 'ok then, what days ARE you free?' to which i replied 'i cant do... thursdays, fridays, saturdays, sundays, or mondays anddd tuesdays too' - 'so you can do the wednesday??'

Don't mean to make them sound evil - they're lovely most of the time, honest! I suppose they had good intentions but x_x

Its an all or nothing situation.... Not just in music. I joined a World Challenge group and they decreed that meetings would be every Friday lunch. Um, I run a wind group then. 'Oh, can't you miss it ?' No I run the thing!! Sheesh. In the end I had to change the day to Mondays which killed it off (It'd only started a month before, and year7s have the worst memory) and now people aren't bothering to turn up to meetings.

The worst thing is being a music scholar because the school pay most of my fees and give me free lessons, so they basically own my life during term. Despite having gained my scholarship only on violin, somehow I am obliged to sing in the chapel choir and concert choir...not sure how that works... And the director of music is always asking me and a harpist friend to hav 30 minutes of music for a headmaster reception with 24 hours notice, last time he did it on the day we both had grade 8s!

It's certainly not just you.

My school takes very little interest in anything of a musical nature, until they happen to need someone to make the school look good at prize giving or something. I know it sounds awful but after 6 years I'm sort of wisening up to their ideas. Anyway...

I asked for about a year if I could use of one of the music rooms for a ceilidh band 'get-together' once a week, to no avail. First day of term after Christmas 06 - 'We need you to put a ceilidh band together for Burns' Night - you've got 3 weeks.'

I really do think there's got to be a point where you say 'no'. Let them frown upon you; if you're generally not a terrible student etc then even when you ask for references they'd be hard pushed to make you out to be terrible for missing a few rehearsals.

The ensembles at my school are made up almost exclusively of people who do not wish to be a part of them. The head of music has very little appreciation for commitments in other aspects of life, nor is she bothered about putting people off playing and learning music altogether. No wonder concerts end up being of such a poor standard...

my school makes you peform in musical groups if you take up an instrument within the school because the lessons are absolutely free so i guess i can understand why my school makes us participate. they pay for all our lessons and sometimes even the instruments!

I'm i a county youth orchestra and a county youth chamber orchestra, and the concerts occasionally clash with the school ones. I always get shouted at on these occasions... Even though I'm told about the county stuff months in advance, and I'm told a couple of weeks before the school ones.


Our school set me up (as part of a quartet we play in at school) to play at a ball completely unconnected to school, and told the organisers that we wouldn't accept payment. They then left us to sort it out ... thankfully the rich lady organising it thought we were good and gave us vouchers which the school couldn't spend (hah).


We've also been dragged in to play in a 7 hour "scratch concert" (ie sightreading) of Handel's Messiah for the local choral society, on a Sunday. We were told the week before.

There's never any problem with school concerts as there aren't any to participate in.

My youngest was playing in something for the Music Service and was expected at a rehersal. When she didn't turn up they decided to phone to find out where she was. They couldn't get me at home or work and eventually got her Dad on his mobile. He had no idea why she wasn't at the rehersal (he was working away), he phoned me to phone them. She was infact enroute to her Grade 5 Theory that they had entered her for.

We didn't mind at all and had a laugh over it.

A few years ago I went to an Interschools General Knowledge Championship, and I'd told the school previously that I couldn't make a concert that was on that night, and they'd been fine with it. When I got back from this competition I found a really hysterical answerphone message from my music teacher, wanting to know where I was... I went to see her the next day and she ranted at me, before realising the letter excusin me (which she;'d read) was on her desk. It was hilarious!





I directed a drama production last year with about 40 people in 4 different mini plays altogether, and had to get to all the rehearsals, obviously... The music dept. couldn't understand why I had to forgo orchestra prectises to go to the dress rehearsals... "Er - I'm i charge of the dress rehearsals?"

I think there is an enormous problem in secondary schools, because each department acts as if it were the only department in the school. The ideal pupil would be one who only did one subject!

At the school where I work there was a pupil three or four years ago who wanted to do Chemistry at Cambridge, and needed three As to get in. Unfortunately he was doing Maths and Further Maths as his second and third subjects, and found Further was too difficult for him - he got a C. So he arranged with Cambridge to take an extra year at school and do only Physics, to achieve his third A. Of course, taking only one subject, which was equivalent to less than two A2s, he did extremely well, as you would expect. But our Head of Physics still goes on and on about what a brilliant student he was, and how amazing he was to get such a high mark doing the subject over one year. However hard I try to get her to see the reasons why, all she will say is, "But he did so well in just the one year"!

In the real world, almost all students have far more commitments than just the one department, but trying to get a Head of Music, for instance, to appreciate that someone needs to miss the occasional rehearsal to compete in an important sporting event, or a school play, is ridiculously difficult. I feel very sorry for you all, but I don't see attitudes changing any time soon.

This is very true. Teachers don't care about other subjects/departments except their own and will rarely be relaxed about giving other students the oppurtunity to do other commitments. Even in lessons, they all think that their subject is the most important.

Give us a break!

My school is split up into several buildings. I say that no one in one building can have any contact with anyone in a different office, let alone a different building! Of course its highly unreasonable for them to pick up the phone once in a while, or get a runner to send a message, or even listen to their students... Oh no, far too difficult and time consuming. Far rather sort out the mess after its occurred!

Way back in my school days, whilst I was the best musician in school, I was never liked by the Head of Music, because rehearsals for various groups like choirs and orchestras were in the lunch time. I went home every day (15 mins away) , we had our main meal at lunchtime, my Dad even came home from work lunchtime.
I would have preferred rehearsals after school.
I never had a school 'dinner' all my life at any school !

Now I can see this from both sides. Having been in orchestras in school I found that I had to be at rehearsals to be told I would be playing certain things a matter of weeks away. Also though I work as a sound and lighting coordinator as well as PA for a director in a school and I know how frustrating it can be when you organize a rehearsal and you only have 1/4 of the people there.

It is frustrating, but I don't mind if people have other things on and let me know about it... What gets me down is turning up and feeling like an idiot because you're the only one, and then people drift in 15 minutes late, a few more show up, barely enough for a rehearsal. If they'd let me know beforehand I could have cancelled it but they waste everyone else's time by not bothering to let someone know! There needs to be commitment but there should be flexibility as well.

I think its probably more common in music than in other subjects. Maybe because a lot of the teachers had a curriculum more focused on their subject at school than many of their students now. Having said that I'm not always sure we do ourselves any favours by going out of our way to turn up for rehearsals.

Just to give the teacher's perspective on this one...

Sometime there are be a lot of outside pressure on your music teacher to provide music for various events. In my experience (I work part-time in two schools) the music teacher is often one of the last people to hear about these things and are then expected to pull a great performance out of their hat! I must say I try to appreciate it when my students have other commitments (in a way some of my colleagues don't) but it is still extremely stressful to try and organise something which is going to showcase the school if people's commitment is wavering. Also, while I'm sure you all have good reasons for needing to be elsewhere, sometimes the excuses are fairly lame.

It's tough on everyone I think!

This is why I love my school so much we are meant to go to one music club if you have school lessons and have done Grade 2 but although the Head of Music is always trying to encourage people she doesn't force them, which is why loads of people go, (I have a club every day) because they know its flexible and they won't get killed if they can't go to a concert. This does have a downside, yr7s in choir forget to go to like the final rehearsal so then miss the concert because they don't live in the music dept like some of us but other than that it's great! In contrast, at primary you got shouted at if you forgot your music or missed a practice which means once kids get old enough to argue with their parents they drop out. I go back to help and the teacher frightens me and annoys me sometimes too!


I agree! For me though, it's all the other depts against music, and music are understanding which is nice, but for example PE get cross if I want to go to a cello lesson, but music will let me go to a match etc.

I'm far from ideal then!

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I see where you're coming from - don't get me wrong, I'm happy to attend music rehearsals and short-notice concerts, and I feel guilty if I do have to miss them for one reason or another. I can also empathise with the rehearsal organisation: I've organised junior drama productions in the past and getting people to turn up to normal rehearsals when they've lost the initiative - let alone rehearsals that take up a lot of their free time - is difficult but essential.

I just get irritated when the people who do bother, try to attend and feel bad about missing rehearsals get it in the neck when others, as you say, make lame excuses. I lead the orchestra and chamber groups at my school and try (obviously) to put in as much effort as possible as I have a responsibility to be there... But reliability tends to be rewarded with more commitments that they know you'll do for them....

Like I say, I hope it's not just me, because I don't want this to be a really self-centred complaint!

Its not just you... Organizing rehearsals is a nightmare.

I totally agree! My head of music gave out to my choir once over their attendance...but she didn't realise that firstly, she was shouting at the people who attend and also that I didn't feel it was necessary!

I was quite annoyed because the group were made to feel bad for no good reason. I always try to thank the people who come to choir and if I am going to complain about the attendance it is always done in such a way as to make sure those who DO come regularly realise they are valued. Along the lines of...hmm I wonder where everyone else is then. We are going to have to get on their cases." I suppose I am trying to subtly encourage them to get each other to go! (This could be a real newbie secondary school teacher thing to do though...I'm not a full time secondary teacher and so tend to behave a bit differently...)

A hard balance to strike though.

My flute teacher has a really nasty habit of shooting the messenger eg "Where's so and so" "She's at a revision session for an A-level maths exam which she is sitting tomorrow" "She needs to get her priorities right! If we all showed this much dedication, there wouldn't be a sax group at all!" Other music teachers seem to be quite accepting of the idea that sometimes, we have to maybe do some work towards the qualifications which we attend school to aquire, rather than sitting around, bored out of our brains playing pieces with 6 different notes even though we're post grade 8 (ok, I am, but there aren't really any pre-grade 1 people, so I think we still seem to be aiming a bit low!) and being yelled at. That classic line "I'm giving up my lunchtime for this!" crops up a lot too, and I think sometimes it isn't understood that children aren't really designed to do 5 hours of lessons with a lunch break in which they have to wolf down their lunch and then sit silently. Surely that counts as us giving up our lunchtimes?

And as for concerts, the shortest notice I've ever had was a letter coming round 3 hours beforehand. Normally we don't have letters at all, and you basically have to nip into the music block every couple of hours ahnd then spread round news as best you can. Communications lol!

I get alot of the same from our music dept. I'm the most advanced musician in the school by a long way, but with our current teacher I don't think I've actually had any encouragement as such, I just get asked to do everything, which generally I do. Also, I recently auditioned for a specialist music course at a sixth form college and I didn't get any encouragement at all from my music teacher, instead it was my science and maths teachers who were really pleased for me, wishing me good luck and saying how no-one from our school had ever got on the course.

I also get it the other way round quite alot - our french teacher expects us to come one evening a week after school to do french and doesn't seem to understand that I really don't have the time to do that, due to my musical commitments and doesn't see why they come first with me, despite the fact that hopefully music will be my career and I'm not going to study french at all after this year. Also, I was talking to my form tutor about revision and fitting everything and by the end of the conversation he told me that he was worried about the amount I was doing and couldn't I cut back on the music a bit while I was doing my GCSEs. Well the answer is obviously no, atleast at the moment, because right now I'm not overloading myself and I'm happy with the revision I'm doing and music is more important to me than GCSEs.

Sorry, didn't mean to turn that in to a mega-rant

Non music people don't understand why I do so much. Music people think I should do more. I can't win!

There are a few teachers like that at my school, but the music department at our school are really grateful if we do turn up to rehearsals etc, but generally they understand that we have other commitments sometimes like exam revision... At the moment we've struck a deal to go to choir one week, and then a revision session the next and so on! Although most time the revision session ends before choir does, so loads of us turn up to choir for the last 15mins or so and then we get a big cheer

Although we did all have to 'brownie promise' to attend the last rehearsal before a concert!

Actually, they probably like it when I don't go to rehearsals - I practically live in the music department, so they're probably sick of seeing me!!

I was part of My Orchestra (sorry if spelled it wrong)

We used to plan concerts in and outside of school

One time when we were rehearsing for a concert outside of school our teacher told us in our rehearsing session that we needed to rehearse 3 hours after school and I had a violin lesson outside of school and The teacher knew that.

My teacher told asked me which one was more important my lesson on this and in the end i decided to stay after school because i felt i have no choice in the matter. He atually made me feel like it was all my fault.

Music Teacher there in a group of there own!

I was part of My Orchestra (sorry if spelled it wrong)

We used to plan concerts in and outside of school

One time when we were rehearsing for a concert outside of school our teacher told us in our rehearsing session that we needed to rehearse 3 hours after school and I had a violin lesson outside of school and The teacher knew that.

My teacher told asked me which one was more important my lesson on this and in the end i decided to stay after school because i felt i have no choice in the matter. He atually made me feel like it was all my fault.

Music Teacher there in a group of there own!

Aww that's really mean, seeing as you were going to do music anyway!



Our Music Dept.'s having a bit of a coup... The Head of Music treats the teachers like kids and is just as harsh to them about last-minute rehearsals and commitment to voluntary stuff. Two teachers are walking out (my violin teacher included), and the rest are going to see him en masse on Friday (all 30-40ish of them: we share the Music Dept. with 3 other schools)

I was recently asked what I was going to play in the school concert... I couldn't help feeling that a stage had been missed out.

Waaaw, I thought my school was the only one like this!
I can come up with a whole list of complaints. But heres just a few..

There's only, like 3 music teachers in my whole 2000 student school, and it's like they're the highest priority! Whenever I'm like "Miss, I can't go to orchestra, I've got a netball match," she's like *evil death glare*
She still lets me go though. I don't think anyone in the orchestra is really WILLING to go, there's always about 8 missing every time. Whole thing being about 30 people.

The orchestra itself.. well.. It used to just be a windband. Now they've chucked in strings as well. There's absolutely no point of us flutes being in, you seriously can't hear us, unless we're playing uber high.
Half the people can't play, no offence. I'm the highest level in it. Higher than the teacher even, who only has Grade 6 piano, grade whatever sax.

We play in <my city's> Citizenship ceremonies a lot. Rehearsals are a tad overdone. In the upcoming week, it's like "Monday, Tuesday, Thursday lunchtimes! Tuesday Thursday after school! Friday if you can!" SHEESH we have other stuff to do you know!! And we have a concert in 3 weeks. It's kinda important, played at a proper stage place thing. And rehearsals cancelled for the past 3 weeks. So I guess we have to cram everything in, we're going to sound stupid.

I don't know what goes on in their heads, mate

Sounds like you're doing better than my school... 1800, 2 music teachers and no ones cares until they suddenly need music for something, then our long suffering teachers have to quickly find willing performers. Orchestra of approx 9, I'm technically the most competent (only sixth former, so not surprising.) but there are others in the school who just don't bother because music is such a joke in the school. The teachers themselves are lovely.

Surely your teacher has a degree in music?

Ahh it seems nobody can win :|
at my school the music department is a corridor.

and that was made smaller so the sports hall could be larger.
pretty much sums it up!

people put more emphasis on sport and it's a bit annoying because while people are willing to give up their lunchtime/after school time to go to sports clubs we can't get a decent orchestra or choir together to make it worthwhile.
also in our school newsletter, sports achievements are always mentioned but any music achievements are lucky to get a footnote at the end.

grr.
my mum's said that if I get into the national youth choir or get my grade 8 she's demanding a mention
how embarrassing.

Sounds like the head at my school, this didn't effect me directly but he asked the head of music if she had a string quartet ready to play at open evening a week before it happened. Of course she didn't because all the members ahd left for uni the year before and so my friend got roped into playing piano for it instead

And usually the head doesn't really care much about the music department