Hello,

I went to a student three weeks ago just before they broke up for the holiday. I had a..err...discussion with mum about exams. They want him to alternate exams. (I.e. this term he did practical piano (he's my Gde 1 merit student) in June they want him to do Grade 2 theory, in the winter Grade 2 practical etc. etc.

I had already explained when I first started teaching him (I inherited him from another teacher who had taken him through Grade 1 theory which he just passed), that I don't like to teach one exam after another as there are techniques etc that need to be learnt in between. At the time, mum seemed to think this was a good idea.

Anyway, on this last lesson, mum said she wanted him entered for grade 2 theory in June...when we haven't even done any "formal" theory work towards it. I explained that as he was losing almost three weeks because of the holiday (they went away to America), that I thought he wouldn't be ready and it would be best to wait until the winter term. Especially as I will have to send the form off this week, which indicates that he is going to be ready for the exam by June. Mum still insisted he should be entered for June. I told the boy that he would need to take his theory books away on holiday and set him some exercises to do. I could see he was not happy with this, and obviously wanted the holiday to have fun (And I don't blame him for that!).

I went there this evening. He had done the exercises, but most of them were wrong, and when I explained the answers, he didn't seem to grasp why. I asked him if he wanted to take the exam, he just shrugged and didn't answer. When I spoke to mum after the lessson, I said once more that I didn't think he would be ready and it wouldn't be fair to put him in. She said he needs to be Grade five standard before taking his GCSE music exam in three years (is this right..I don't know so couldn't say anything about that) and if he didn't do all these exams he wouldn't be Grade 5 in time. I said he didn't seem keen to take the exam, and as his tutor I thought it wouldn't be fair on him. She said he would work hard at it. With that, she paid me my fee, and handed me a cheque for his exam.

I think he is heading for a fail, and I really don't want to put him in.

What would you do? And how can I make theory lessons less "dry" so that he learns but has fun at the same time? Help! Please!

Thank you.

**Sorry -the post is a bit long winded!*

GSCE music needs a lot less than grade 5 theory though individual schools may set their own limits.

You could explain that you can work steadily through the theory without taking the exams (but doing past papers along the way to check that everything is learned) and that with steady work it COULD be possible to have grae 5 by that time.
You could tell her that you don't enter theory students for exams unless they show they are prepared by scoring 80+ on a full set of past papers.

I'd be covering theory by talking about the things he is playing and maybe try something like Theory is fun if he desn't think it looks too young for him. Maybe try to do as much practical illustration on theory topics as you can too.

I would go by my instinct *always* no matter what parents say.
What a totally horrible situation to be in though. I feel really sorry for the child and for you.

Also, what if the child doesn't want to do GCSE music in 3 years time - I doubt the parent has considered that!
Poor kid.

I'm starting the GCSE music course in September and out of two classes (around 40ish kids) there will be two of us who have done Grade 5 theory so it is definitely NOT necessary. Useful, perhaps, but not necessary. Our only advice was that you needed basic notation reading skills in the options booklet, loving and participating in music was more important. In fact, the head said in our briefing we needed to be at least g3 instrumental standard and the head of music has ignored that and instead tried to encourage everyone who has potential to do really well (for example, some fantastic guitarists who have never taken exams) It would probably be more benificial to him at the moment to aim to get his playing up to about G3 standard in 3 years, so he can score highly on that, as the theory side will be explained in class but the practical won't be and it will help him to be able to play in a duet for the ensmble side of things to. The GCSE syllabus is changing in 2009-not sure how it'll affect him though.

You could also explain that theory and practical grades don't necessarily match up grade wise and that theory is more quickly picked up if most of it is learned through playing first.

Sounds like a nightmare mother. Poor child! As Musicfreak says, it's useful to have Grade 5 for GCSE, but it is by no means necessary. I think if I were in your position (although obviously depending on how much you need their money for teaching him), I would refuse point blank to enter him (return her cheque!), and suggest that she enters him directly herself. It's easy to set yourself up as a teacher on the online entry site, so I see no reason why a private individual couldn't do it too. (Although I admit I haven't tried it.)

Unfortunately, if he does take it and does fail, she will undoubtedly blame a) the teacher for being 'useless' and b) the child for being stupid / lazy etc.

Why on earth is he doing the theory grade before the practical anyway? (If I've understood you right.) This is bonkers!

Thanks for your thoughts so far!

Sadly, I believe they are parents who have set an agenda and won't budge from it. I explained that he could do both Grade 2 theory and practical alongside each other and sit both exams in the winter term. The response? "So what kind of exam can we put him in for in June?" Err...how about leaving exams for the poor kid just to enjoy playing and learning the theory side of what he's playing as we go along??

After he had finished the Grade 1 practical work, I suggested we wait for the results before contemplating Grade 2. Low and behold, all the Grade 2 books were there when I went for the lesson before the hoilday.

Thanks also for your info. re GCSE's. It's helpful for me to know.

I'm going to my local music shop tomorrow. I will try and get some of the theory books sbhoa mentioned. (He's 11 by the way).

I wonder if Mum did music at school? The old O-level used to be the equivalent of Grade 5 theory, which is why the ABRSM still accepts it as a substitute. The GCSE is 'a different kettle of fish'. Noticeably the ABRSM do not accept this as a grade 5 substitute. Maybe telling that to Mum will help.

iona

You didn't start using them did you???

No..neither parents have studied music or play an instrument.



Absolutely not!!!!

GCSE is like Grade Two theory, but im not 100% sure

I read somewhere you need to be about grade 5 for A level

I was about to say I agreed with this, but actually I'm not sure. I think it's very difficult for young children to learn more advanced theory than the standard of their playing, but I'd have thought the average child of this age (presumably he's 12 or 13?) ought to be able to cope with G2 theory even if he can't yet play at that level. I don't know much about teenage boys, though, so I may be entirely wrong!

My older daughter has just done her G5 Theory (having taken G5 piano last year). The only other exam she did was G3 a year ago (and only really so that she knew what to expect in the G5). She did work through the other books, of course, but didn't bother doing practice papers or exams at the other grades - there simply didn't seem to be any point (and think of the money it would have cost!). I'm planning to use the same approach with the younger one - who is currently working through the grade 3 book.

Others may disagree, but I'd suggest to the mother that there was absolutely no reason for him to do grade 2. He could work his way through the book and then move on without doing the exam (when you thought he was ready). That way he could work at his own speed (could be slower than her timetable, but could be faster - in some respects the exam timetable could hold him up). I'd have thought he'd have plenty of time to get to G5 in 3 years time if he works steadily through the books.

I took on a student a while ago now, whose parents had set the agenda with his previous teacher - the teacher was pregnant and was frankly glad to have an excuse to stop. Our first and last confrontation was at the beginning of his third lesson - mother said that they would enter her for grade 8 that term, even though I was against it. I stood my ground and said that they were welcome to enter her, but would have to find another teacher and that I didn't know any who would be prepared to act against their better judgement under pressure from parents. They backed down, and he (at age 11) achieved his grade 8 distinction 2 terms later. If I were you I would call their bluff, and if they don't back down you are probably better off without the hassle.

Apart from it not being necessary to do every single exam, can he really be expected to go up a grade on the practical side every other term? It would literally mean starting a new syllabus as soon as he had taken an exam with no time for development or the fun stuff in between!

Exactly! That's what I explained at the beginning before we broke up. They insist he does every exam between 1 and 5.

When I said we are limited to a one hour lesson every week, and will be very pushed for time, mum said "Well, come here on Sundays as well"

Yes, looks like I'm going to have to say goodbye to this student.

I think you should make it clear to mum that you are the one who sets the exam agenda! (I don't mean never consult her, but she should not be dictating to you - would she tell the school when they were to enter her son for SATs or GCSEs?) If she doesn't accept that, ask her to move on and find another teacher. If you let her have her way this time against your better judgement, you will have set a precedent, and things will only get worse.

It sounds very much as though mum is setting the pace rather than her son. You can lead a horse to water... but if the boy is just going through the motions without any real desire to learn you are on a hiding to nothing. Few 11 year olds find theory fascinating, and I think little and often is probably best in this case. If he has a half hour lesson, maybe set aside ten minutes every other lesson for a bit of theory and then give him some exercises to be done over a fortnight?

Do trust your own judgement on this and explain asap that you are not going to enter the boy this term.

I've never heard of any amount of prerequisite theory qualification being necessary for GCSE...

Sorry to hear about all this. It sounds as if you've done all you can. I really hope the mother realises whose fault it is if the pupil fails!

She never asked him once if he wanted to do it. You should have seen his face when I said he would have to take his books on holiday! I thought he was going to cry. We were trying to work out an extra evening for him.

Mondays..private English lessons
Tuesdays..tennis before his piano/theory lesson
Wednesdays..private maths lessons
Thursdays..further English lessons
Fridays..Karate and judo lessons

Saturdays they are out or fitting in homework (and practice??!)





Thank you..me too

Sadly, I believe they are parents who have set an agenda and won't budge from it.

Yes, it sounds very much like it.

Sympathies. I bet the poor kid doesn't have much of a life. It's a pity the parents can't let him enjoy his music - he might actually end up doing better

Incidentally, the gcse pupils I see have nothing approaching grade 5 theory knowledge.

DC I hope you can sort this - I would not be happy about going ahead this term.

I don't think there is one person in my years gcse music class who have grade 5 theory. Most of them didn't even play an instrument before they took it, so if he did HAVE grade 5 theory, if he went to a school like mine he would be very ahead!

My guess is that if your pupil's mother gets her way this time and it more or less works out, she will continue to treat you and her son the same way in future. And it will get harder and harder (for everybody but her) to make things turn out the way she wants them to.

Maybe worth finding an excuse to make a written report on progress to date, and putting your criteria and proposed schedule in writing along with your other thoughts and plans regarding what he should be doing? (That is, if mother sees that not doing exams does not equal "doing nothing" and "no progress", she might step back a bit?).

If you were a new teacher just starting out DC it might not be easy to voice your opinion but as you aren't go ahead and tell the mother that you are concerned about the amount of extra lessons that the child is undertaking already and you think that if you add to his workload further he wil buckle under the strain of it all and give up his music altogether! Tell her that you are not happy to enter for an exam for which he is unprepared and that you will not do so. Explain also that her needs to know the basics of notation for GCSE but not much more and that the work that you have planned for him will add to his enjoyment and understanding of music in ways that no amount of exam cramming can ever do. Remind her that you want to make him into a musician and not just another pupil with a few grades to his name and a small repertoire of exam pieces. Stick to your guns and if that fails tell her to try to find another teacher who will work to her rule but tell her firmly in your best Liddy voice that you will not.

Hear, hear!!!

If it really looks like the parents aren't going to climb down, then why don't you put it in writing that you feel it's most likely that he wouldn't pass, given the timescale, but that they're free to enter him for the exam themselves if they wish - as long as it's on record that it's against your advice - keeping it all very diplomatic, of course!? Your options are to be at odds with them by refusing to enter him, to be in a flap about him failing if you do enter him - or to do as I suggested above. There's really no point in trying to change their attitude or argue with them, because you'll just be unfairly resented for it.

Morning ladies,

Thank you for your comments.

Part of the "discussion" I had (which was veering towards a full scale argument) was that student will be able to play 15 exam pieces (assuming he does all grades 1-5) and nothing else. That is why I donot teach one exam after another. That's when mum said that he needed all of them before his GCSE exams. I told her he will be bored and give up his music altogether.

I've said from the beginning I'm not at all happy with the situation and that I did not feel he should be entered. I told her point blank he is heading for a fail. She kept on saying he would work hard for it. When I asked when would he be able to fit it all in, she said he would have to get up earlier before school. I said this didn't seem fair and she came back with "He's my child"....

I have a cancellation tomorrow evening. I'm going to go round and give her the form so that she can enter him herself, and put my views in writing, as suggested. I don't think I want any more to do with this situation.

I feel sorry for the boy. Sadly, a common enough scenario these days. You may be doing him a big favour in the long run by standing up to Mum and putting a stop to some of this nonsense.

What a nightmare? When is the boy able to relax? It sounds as if mother is taking away all the fun of learning anything, as well as music, and the enjoyment of childhood. All that pressure to do well to please the parents must be horrendous.

So she doesn't mind making her son miserable then? What a shame.

You're his teacher after all, and therefore ought to be the best judge of whether or not he should be sitting the exam. Would she argue like this with one of his school teachers?

"I'm going to go round and give her the form so that she can enter him herself, and put my views in writing, as suggested" - sounds like a good idea.

Hope you can come to some sort of conclusion soon, DC.

The sad thing is, though, that your standing up to her won't change much for the boy; she'll still be like this in other aspects of his life, and if you rub her up the wrong way too much she'll just go to somebody else who'll do what she says more willingly. That's why I think there's no point in fighting a battle you won't win, as long as it's crystal-clear what your professional advice is in this instance. Unfortunately, she's right that it's 'her son', and you're not really in a position to argue about how she brings him up, whether or not you agree with it. If you feel strongly that his workload is too heavy, then don't put on any extra pressure once the exam is entered; just continue teaching as you would have, as long as the syllabus is covered in some way, however briefly, making sure that you subtly tell him (without openly criticising his mother) that if he fails, it's not his fault; the exam date just came round too soon. His mother might listen to you next time...

Well, I've been to the bookshop and found the 'Theory is Fun' book for Grade 2. I'll hand it all over tomorrow with the form, and if she still wants me to do the theory work with him, I will, but I think I'll say that I finish teaching him once he has sat the exam.

For personal and professional reasons I don't want to teach one exam after another. As soon as we finish this theory, mum will want me working towards the Grade 2 practical. I was looking through his pile of (music) books the other week, and there is not a single one that isn't related to exam work in some form or other. There is nothing there that he can have fun with.

Yes, Dulciana, I have absolutely no say in how he is bought up by his parents. I just feel it's a shame when he hasn't uttered a word about it, and shows no enthusiasm for theory anyway. If he wanted to do this, and we had more time, I would be more than happy to go through everything he needed to know.

He did Grade 1 theory with his previous teacher and scraped a pass of 70. That was after five months of working towards it. If he only has two months for Grade 2 (though I know there is not a vast difference between the two exams) how on earth will he pass??

We'll see what tomorrow brings....

will be interesting doing grades 4 to 5 in 4 months.

My oldest daughter, (just turned 15) is doing GCSE Music. She has never taken a theory exam, her last practical exam was taken 2 1/2 years ago where she gained a Merit at Grade 3 on violin, but felt very uncomfortable with exams, and decided she did not want to take anymore. Teacher was fine with this, and so was I. Having been to a recent parents evening, and receiving report, it appears she is predicted an A/A*.

The syllabus is quite varied, with no guidlines by her school as to what level you need to be playing at, and certainly no theory exams need to have been taken. Composition is quite important, and as well as personal performances, group performances also need to be submitted. The theory you need to be aware of is taught within the class along the way.

Sounds like a case of pushy parents - my daughter took GCSE Music because she enjoyed this lesson, and to give her a varied and balanced timetable. Not sure about the motives of these parents, and if I were you, would think twice about whether you wanted to get involved in them, as I think you may well be in for a bumpy ride.

Half of my GCSE class couldn't read a note. They passed, and would have all got B/A if they'd bothered to put the work in.

I would tell the mother that everytime someone does an exam, they stagnate for 2 or 3 months while they revise/don't challenge themselves. That has certainly been my experience!

Well, I dropped in on this family this evening, armed with my reasons for not putting the boy in for his theory, and a written explanation of why I felt it wasn't right to do one exam after the other.

Mum says "We have been speaking to another piano teacher."

"OK" I say "Are you transferring him to her?"

"No" she said "We wanted her views on what you told us. She virtually repeated everything you said in the first place. Therefore we are not putting *son* in for any more grades until you feel he is ready."




*Goes off for a nice glass of red!*

Thanks for all your comments though. I have certainly learnt from this should it occur again.
(As I've no doubt it will!)

Parents with common sense! It was a useful thing for them to have asked for a second opinion because they will trust your first one again from now on. Now the little lad can have some fun in his lessons and might even find some more time to practise too.

Yes, mum asked me if the next time I was in the music shop, would I kindly pick up some new learning material for him!!

Wonderful !

hope it all goes well from now on.

HooRAY!!!

Well done! That sounds like a happy and successful 'conclusion'.

That's fantastic! I'd followed this thread with a vaguely depressed feeling, so it's good to read a happy ending Thank goodness the 'other' piano teacher was a sensible one too!

[Wishes there was a smiley that showed relief...]

You must be so pleased.

Yay!

Thats great!!

I disagree. When I was 11, i'd done my grade 4 on two insruments and my teacher advised me to start my grade 5 theory as i was starting secondary school in the september, and it would be good to start before i got the extra pressure of senior school. It took me a year to do my theory and i did it before either of my practical exams. I didn't see it as a problem at all. I also was glad to have done it before i had too much school to do.

And about the gcse music, grade 5 is deifnately not essential. possible grade 3 standard would be my guess, but it definately wasn't grade 5.

And daisy chain im glad that the parents came round

We were not required to have any theory to get on the GCSE course,
I had done only up grade 1 theory at the beginning of the course and had my g5 practical (although the school only asked fror grade 2/3)

In performance, a grade 3 standard piece can get you full marks if played well, and the only exam you need ''theory'' in is the listening and appraising which, for a start, is only 40% of the overall mark, and also the teacher will teach you the few things you need to know for it (basica vocab which you will pick up anyway if you learn an instrument)

Most colleges want G5 theory if you want to get on the A Level course, but he has years to work towards it in that case!

Eek! I am studying grade 4 theory but have still yet to sit a practical exam - cos I am not so good at it! Does it really matter? I love theory and am able to do it in my lunchbreak but fitting in practice is harder for a full-time worker.

different for a child though maybe...