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He won his section last week, but I am sure the final was live.

I thought the presentation definitely detracted from the performances. It would have been much better to be given an insight into why the judges made the decision they did. Something more akin to a Proms presentation, with a bit of info about the pieces chosen and the likely difficulties, perhaps.

I'm not too happy about young entrants and think there should be an entry age of 15 minimum. However good someone is at 12, they are bound to be better by 15. I'm sure Peter enjoyed the whole experience, but it's the aftermath which worries me - could be too much pressure too soon, before the kid has even hit adolescence. Yes, he's wanted to be a trombonist since he was 9, but many of us wanted to be something at that age which we rejected by the time we were 15.

I used to really enjoy Young Musician, but if it goes on like this with minimal coverage of the musical content and a general feeling of dumbing down, I think its days are numbered.

Thats a good question about age but in Peter's case I do think he will cope with the aftermath. He has a wonderfully supportive family who are all high quality musicians in their own right (brass bands) and he does have an amazing knack of handling pressure. He didn't look at all nervous at the brass semi but I spoke to his Dad to ask how Pete was feeling prior to the performance and his Dad said he does get nervous but his nerves bring out the best in him. Also, he will be required back in school this week I would imagine.

I do wonder what is next for him though, when you win young musician at 12 what else is there? more of the same?

I agree that Peter's performance just shone - it sparkled and danced all the way through...

And what a lovely, grounded boy with equally lovely and down-to-earth parents - a delight to behold.

And yes, I agree about the ghastly presentation of the whole thing. The words 'Down' and 'Dumbing' are hovering round my lips...yuk, yuk, YUK .

But well done again to the lovely Peter Moore!

Very pleased to see Peter win - but I do agree with the comments above about the presentation of the series being poor.

Hope to see the whole concerto performances in 2010...

Overall impression:

Presentation by the BBC (throughout this week) - paternalistic, patronizing, populistic and generally poor.
Performances by all 5 finalists - excellent.

However, on what they screened I cannot see why the trombonist won. What he played may have been technically perfect but it didn't strike me as terribly challenging and he had the stage presence of a hat stand. Score 9 out of 10 tops. I thought the pianist, though technically accurate, lacked passion - it was like listening to the Rach Pag played by a metronome in places and the Schumann was much the same. Again, 9 out of 10. The Percussionist was great playing his own composition on the marimba but his performance lost focus somewhere in the concerto movement. Yet again, 9 out of 10. The flautist (my personal favourite prior to the show) played beautifully, had stage presence to spare and was only let down by a couple of technical fluffs and Zoom Tube where he played it better in the semifinal (and perhaps should have played something different for the final) so another 9 out of 10 max. On what we were allowed to see, the guitarist had everything, with room to spare. 10 out of 10 (or at least 9!) Most importantly he was the only one who appeared to have complete mastery of his instrument, whilst playing something that might be expected to stretch that mastery.

Perhaps the trombonist did something brilliant (or the guitarist something less) in the other concerto movements that weren't screened, or perhaps the judges felt that this is the YOUNG musician, so gave it to the youngest of those they considered equals. Whatever the reasoning behind the verdict, the way the competition was covered by the beeb left a lot to be desired.




flavour of the whole thing.

I don't know the difficulty levels of the pieces that he played, but I do know that trombone pieces can sometimes seem easier than they actually are. Maybe it should be considered that he just made it sound easy, despite the fact that he was playing difficult material (e.g. high notes). I also think that he has great tone quality. That's just my opinion, but I don't think it should be said that he wasn't playing difficult pieces.

If you are referring to his mvt 2 of Ibert, its actually VERY well played. Its the 1st and 3rd mvts which werent at a suitable standard for this kind of competition.




You can watch it online....
I remember in the past they have shown full concertos, but last year dissapointingly they didnt show full section final performances, Im glad they have everything in full on the internet to watch over and over!





Does this mean he is the best trombonist out of all those out there? Surely not....he has to develop his playing to an even higher standard. But then if he wasnt the best......then why did he win
Not too impressed by the judging this year! Guitarist was the only one who showed total mastery of the instrument and brilliant musicianship.

I agree with the trombonist winning, probably the guitarist would have been my reserve, I enjoyed his Rodrigo.
The pianist was awful, I dont know why that Rajeshkumar fellow didnt get through. TO me Erdem was only the third best pianist in the piano final. His performance of 'Aufschwung' was far too restrained with too much use of rallentando/tenuto, which destroyed the flow of the thing, and his Rachmaninov wasnt to my taste either. The Torke Percussion thing was just monotonous. almost the same all the way through. I'd rather have heard a bit of MacMillan 'Veni Veni'. Flautist was capable but not outstanding.
So my order of ranking would have been Trombone, Guitar, Flute, Piano ,Percussion.

. . . Which is why I didn't say it: I said the pieces he was playing didn't strike me as terribly challenging. I entirely agree that this may be because, with consumate skill, he made them look easier than they were. However, what we saw & heard (so far as I can remember) had no very fast runs, no glissandi, nothing you could regard as extended technique. In short, nothing that would strike you as terribly challenging. Beautifully played, yes, but the best musician on show? I was quite careful in my original post not to say no to this question. Only that on what we saw, I remain to be convinced.

For more extensive moaning about the abysmal presentation, anyone interested can read the several threads on the R3 Performance Messageboard . For me, this year's production really sank to a new low, with the result that I couldn't get involved in listening to any of the performances. Very sad.

He did get a Grade 8 Distinction at age 10 , so he must be technically capable.

*goes to read R3 Performance Messageboard*

Yes that was my feeling as well

Just noticed this thread so sorry if it's been asked before... I was just wondering, how usual is it for the performers to use the sheet music? I couldn't help noticing the flautist had some, although I'm not sure how he could see it as the stand was very low down?!

I'd always assumed performance from memory at that standard went without saying, but maybe not.

xxx

I agree with the comments about the trombonist, thought he had lovely tone and actually enjoyed his concerto performance but he didn't blow me away. For me the percussionist really had the energy and looked like he loved every minute of it plus I lovely his concerto piece the best. He was professional and polished as well as looking and acting truly "young". He had me smiling inside as I watched him! As cheesy as that may sound

or if anyone wants to send a comment direct to the BBC, the comment form is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/feedback/

In my opinion Peter has been expertly guided with his programme choices throughout the competition (as you would expect really for someone who has be at Chets since they were 9 studying with Andy Berryman) because he avoided all the "big" pieces that could potentially show his physical immaturity (ie in breathing) and played pieces that showed his strengths.

His performance in the category final really was something else - he played a wonderful piece called "Jazz Feeling" from Arrows of Time that showed his technique of superbly - lip trills and glissando a-plenty. He followed that with the piece he picked for his own choice in the final - Sang Til Lotta - and the whole of the audience was completely captivated it was SO good. He then finished with the Rota Trombone Concerto Mvt 1.

I wonder, do the judged take into account the past performances when making the decision for the Young Musician or is it based solely on the competitors performances in the final? If they take previous rounds into account then its no surprise that Peter won.

(He was also brilliant in the final, but I am not a big fan of the Tomasi)

Not being a trombone or brass player, or even very well musically educated at this stage, I had no idea what to look out for in his playing, and I so wish the BBC had taken the opportunity to educate viewers like myself in the nuances of the instrument. It's not just because I'm learning an instrument that I would have found this interesting - I've spoken to other members of my non-instrumental family who watched it and who were equally disgusted at the presentation. I thought Peter stood out, but I'd no idea why and thanks to the BBC, I was none the wiser after their broadcast.

It's a shame though to let the standard of broadcasting detract from the performances - all credit to the performers, they rose above the drivel promulgated by the presenters and managed to appear more professional than the professionals.

I've just skipped through bits of yesterday's final on iplayer...and I am very glad that I didn't watch it!

I'm glad I'm not alone thinking the TV coverage was poor.

I have to say though, the most annoying of all was there didn't appear to be specialists for every instrument on the panel, which there always has been until now. Even the 'string' specialist would normally be i) a guitarist if a guitar is performing, ii) someone older and more experienced than Nicola.

One of the reasons the final used to give such a strong image of Classical music was the specialist input all round, and usually we see them discussing in their room afterwards with the specialists commenting on their instrument, and more highly perceptive musical comments, that the watching audience can glean what is important in Classical music. Presenters are usually similarly knowledgeable, yet this year looked mere TV presenters, nothing else.

This years' show was done for the mass ratings, not for the good of Classical music.

on BBC iPlayer they used Cecila as the cover picture for the grand final (she wasn't even in the grand finals). Publicity stunt? I think not. (She is good looking though, and no offense to her whatsoever; she was really quite good in the recitals )

Being a brass player I think the biggest challenge is tone quality, because it is extremely easy to sound horrible (like I do at the moment ).

Possibly true: I know my flute teacher thought his group final performance was staggering. However, the judges for the group finals are different from the judges in the finals and they are several months apart. Also, it is possible that a performance that will do well in a group final against similar instruments may fall short against instruments in other categories (I don't see how but I concede it's possible).

I know there are music competitions where the performance throughout the competition is taken into account in the final: For example, as a young man Ashkenazy won the Chopin competition (at least I think it was that one) because his performances in the early rounds were better. He freely admits that his performance in the final was not as good as that of the pianist that came second (John Lill possibly) and concedes that those who only saw the final would have been mystified. However, I didn't think the BBCYM was such a competition.

haha! The posts on that forum are indeed full of lots of moaning - very entertaining reading.

I've not seen the final but will listen to the performances on Radio 3 tonight.
I've heard Pete play several times over the last couple of years and he is a fantastic musician. It'll be interesting to see how his playing develops as he grows older.

I dont think he knew the piece well enough to be playing it from memory. It showed in the actual performance with a lot of tricky passages still needing plenty of work. The 2nd mvt in the sunday show was however brilliantly played.

But his instrumentation was extremely limited (only drums and a few blocks of wood), especially when you consider how many different types of percussion the 2006 category finalist used in his concerto performance of Veni Veni.

I would think they do take an overall objective picture from the entire repertoire, and the critiques written about them in previous rounds.

I thought the BBCs presentation of the final though was truly awful. It was absolutely cringe-making in places and for the first time ever, I spent most of the programme fidgeting and wondering whether to go and put the kettle on for a cup of tea. In all the previous years of the competition, I've been absolutely rooted to my seat for the entire final. Are we seeing another attempt to bump up viewing figures by dumbing down the content for those with an attention span of a sparrow? (no offence to birds intended).

The presenters were dire. What on earth were they thinking of when they employed violinist Nicola Loud (winner in 1990), to interview each performer after they came off the platform. All her questions were pre-written on a card and the whole thing was just so wooden.

Nevertheless, congratulations to the winner, Peter. I thought he played very well and his achievements at such a young age, will surely put him in good stead for a top orchestra's principal trombone seat in the future.

I agree with the comments as well. The trombonist may have been good player in general, but what he played didn't seem difficult and it certainly wasn't as brilliant as some of the others. it seemed a bit too plain to be played as a piece for the finals.........

The percussionist was good, and so was the pianist. and the guitarist.

Well, the Tomasi is on the AB FRSM list for trombone, so I think we can take it that it isn't easy.

In any case, why do we crave flashy stuff in these circumstances? The hardest piece of trumpet music I know is the last movement of the Hindemith Trumpet Sonata. At crotchet=40, it has only 4 quavers, and everything else is crotchets or longer. It takes real virtuosity to carry this off after all the flashy stuff that goes before it. It's like standing there naked on stage with no script.

BTW (sorry if someone else has mentioned it), although there seems to be general consensus that the presentation was not good, I personally liked the creative use of stage lighting and more modern dress by soloists and orchestra. I'm rather bored with wearing 19th Century costumes and cooking in uniformally bright lights on stage. Any other views?

Fair enough

Flashy may be the right word but it seems so full of negative associations it seems wrong. I think in a competition you need to be playing something that will demonstrate your mastery of the instrument in a technically demanding way, even better a range of technically demanding ways. Slower movements in general can be heart-wrenchingly beautiful if played well, and yes I agree that playing slowly well can be very demanding, with nothing in the score to hide behind. It may well be that the Tomasi has some of the more "flashy" stuff in the movements that weren't screened and it may be that he played those sections brilliantly. However what we saw, however marvelously played, simply didn't demonstrate a good player.


The staging was good. The TV production was not.

I agree that the presentation was less than perfect - the cringeworthy leaping onto the family after each candidate by the Blue Peter presenter was totally cringeworth, cheesy and downright embarassing. I had recorded Sunday's programme and just HAD to skip those bit. Appalling error of judgement by the programme makers.

I know it's probably 'wrong' to air my thoughts but the trombone player did not strike me as the outstanding musician and I feel he was totally outclassed by at least two of the other players. It did allow the thought to cross my mind that the competition was fixed. I think it's a waste of the award.

Just my humble opinion though

Finally I can get to read this - I didn't catch the final last night and have only just been able to watch it.

However, think I would have been better coming here first and not wasting 2 hours watching it afterall. Glad I'm not the only one who thought so. The whole way through the competition though there has been far to much focus on the personality side and not enough actual music.

Who was that female presenter? She was awful I could have done a better job than that!!!

Still believe the trombonists concerto was boring but I think he played it well (laypersons pov). The second piece he played in the category final and repeated for the grand final was just stupendous though.

For me it was between the guitarist and the trombonist but if it hadn't been for the trombone concerto I wouldn't have been in any doubt - I suppose that's just a personal opinion on the choice of pieces.

Are you thinking of Nicola Loud? A former winner of the competition.

Based on AmandaL's comments I think I must be as that's what I would have said!

You can view the concerto performances in full, with absolutely no commentary here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/youngmusician/
There's a link on the right-hand side of the page that will open up a video of the concert. This isn't available on the BBC i-player.

She was terrible!! Everything she said was memorised and all she could say was "that's wonderful" "how wonderful" or simply "wonderful"!! ARGH!! as if she wasn't listening to a word they actually said!!

Based on this performance Nicola should stick to what she does best, playing the violin.

The BBC has published a response to all the complaints it's received about the BBC4 run-up to the final, but not about the final itself (it was published before the final was held I think)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/news/2008/05/09/54815.shtml

The terms wash and white spring to mind, but I suppose the heartening thing about it is that so many people have cared enough to complain - the BBC only publish a response about programmes which it has received significant number of complaints about, although it doesn't say how many that is.

I got a reply today on the email I sent a few days ago as opinion/suggestion and not 'complaint'. It bascially reads


I understand that you were disappointed with the presentation for the event the competition this year as you feel it was presented in the style of a reality television programme rather than a classical music competition.
(well not exactly, but that was certainly on my mind)

With respect to your comments regarding the quality of the programme the BBC has prepared a response which is available to view on our complaints website. I have included the link below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/news/2008/05/09/54815.shtml

Furthermore I note you were surprised that there was not a specialist for every instrument on the panel and there has been in previous years.

I would like to assure you that I have registered all of your concerns on to our daily audience log. The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.

At least it appears they actually read our comments and cared to respond, though mine were mostly about the final itself.

I suppose they were trying to rethink how the programme was staged and we don't want to sound ungrateful for their efforts. I do think there is a difference between 'modernising' and making it look naff, and I'm afraid the latter of those fits more to my mind. Even 2006 looked half decent, so it was a rather abrupt change (the final itself).

At the risk of being risque. a friend who is very much part of the classical music establishment told me the other day I wouldn't believe the shenanigens that go on within the Young Musician contest - ie people (parents, perhaps?) 'sleeping their way to the top'...... you may say yikes, she told me it's true....

You're right, Violinia, I can't believe it! I know BBC Young Musician launches careers, but it isn't exactly Hollywood!

In most fields, it isn't just how good you are, but whether you can get the backing of the right people, so I suppose the temptation is there to try to get an advantage for your child. I still find it hard to believe that "sleeping your way to the top" applies here - most of the parents we saw at the final weren't exactly Jordan standard!!!

Well I was pretty startled myself but when I said 'no, really, I just can't believe that', my friend just smiled and said 'anything you could possibly imagine about that contest, it's true - the favours, the corruption you name it.'

When you think about it, massive careers are launched on the back of it, and there are huge amounts of money to be made from subsequent tours, album sales and airplay. Perhaps we're a bit naive to imagine these things don't go on in the classical music world...

I would say that it's bound to happen. (Call me a cynic if you like...) But even small local festivals are clearly 'fixed' at times, because somebody knows somebody, has done somebody a favour, or whatever. If it's important enough to fix the result of an ordinary festival, how much more so this one?

Violinia - a word of caution ... your friend might be the one who's saying it's true, but you're the one who's putting it in print. Be careful.

Just to resurrect the topic one last time, Julian Lloyd-Weber writing in the telegraph on Thursday (2 days ago) was damning in the extreme of the BBC handling of this competition.

Julian Lloyd-Weber on the BBC YMOTY

Nice to see that the pro's were as appalled as the rest of us.

Finally a voice that can be heard (JLW)... He made great sense in this article, hopefully someone at the BBC has the good sense to take on board that they need to stick to the traditions of true competition and avoid sound byte-ing us to death...

I e-mailed the BBC at length about the dreadful way this competition was handled, it was nothing short of scandelous...Speaking for myself I am not interested in the daily "Goings on" in the contestants lives, nor do I wish to witness the families being interviewed live in the auditorium after their child has performed...it was "Car Crash" television at its worst...The BBC is very much a comiittee based organisation, they are so wrapped up in corporate hoojah that they get caught out by their own stupidity..."You can watch it online" was the best comment...what about people who don't have broadband, who cannot afford it or simply don't know how to use a computer (my parents) lord knows it took me long enough to show them how to make a phone call on a mobile which god love them they switch off when they have made the call so as not to waste the battery so you can't actually call them back...Broadband is as alien to them as it is possible to be and its very hard for a family to huddle round a PC screen to watch a program if not impossible.

Dumbing down seems to be the BBC's M.O. at the moment, we are not all imbicilic needing our hands to be held and have things explained nicely to us...I believe most of us went to school and managed a few exams and have reached maturity without the Nannying that seems so prevelant today...

The presenters should be collectively lined up against a wall and shot...they were nothing short of amateur...No style, the questions were banal, the Girl was the worst followed closely by Gethin Jones, even Aled Jones struggled, his attempts at hmour to ease the audience were staggeringly awful...this was a serious competition not a Royal Variety Performance...I half expected him to tap dance and exit stage left it was uttely toe curling.

Rant Over, well done Dr. Rob for posting this link...



It would only be a problem if she was naming names (I checked)...but I sincerely doubt that any Parent or member of the YM team is going to get "Legal" that would be the very worst exposure and not quite what they may have had in mind...

Yes, I just saw the JLW article the other day - brilliant.

I so hope that the BBC will, instead of ignoring us, 'the public', actually LISTEN to someone of his stature...*doesn't hold breath though*

I sent the BBC complaints dept the link to the article..I will persue the producer/director...I am making calls...I'm a big letter writer

Good for you, Andrew...keep us posted as to any response!