Hey all!

I've been reading up a bit about Aspergers as I'm almost convinced one of my students has the condition/syndrome. The thing is, mum admitted on the first day that she'd just moved him to a new school where the classes were smaller as he copes better there, but she never actually mentioned to me any specific condition..

I'm not neccessarily having any trouble with the pupil as he's a pleasant 9 yr old boy, but I wondered if maybe there were any standard or useful approaches I could take when teaching him that might help him progress better?

Basically he's bright, has a very wide vocabulary, but as soon as I met him I knew there was something different about him I couldn't quite pin down. He speaks in an extremely loud voice that's almost comical, but the thing is, when he speaks, it is as if he is addressing no one in particular - if that makes sense? He answers my questions well but it's as if he's talking to someone else in the room and not me? It strikes me that he's not making any sort of social connection, or something... Often he'll announce things that are completely off topic and go into great detail.

I don't actually find it annoying, just interesting! The words he uses are very grown-up but I get the impression he doesn't really know what they mean or in what context he should be using them?

Something else I noted was a tendency towards very repetitive actions, and I haven't mentioned it to him as I don't think he knows he's doing it. In "Tribal Dance" from John Thompson, he will often repeat one bar 6 times (a bit like when a record gets stuck!) but at the end of the piece feel satisfied he has played what was written.

Something else I was amazed at is that he seems to be able to remember something I've said in a previous lesson, even weeks ago, word for word. Half the time I can't even remember what I said five minutes ago

Anyway I wonder does anyone recogise these sorts of traits and if so could they give any advice or tips on how to get the best out of this sort of pupil. I don't think he neccessarily has a "difficulty" as such, but maybe there's a way I could make all his special skills work to his advantage rather than hindering his progress, and try and learn something about the way he thinks so I can communicate ideas more easily?

He's very sweet and I want make sure he's happy at his music

Thanks

Amanda xxx

The repeating thing sounds very familiar of some of my students with aspergers, you can hear sentences which are "cut and pasted" sometimes you could guess they're from grandmother. I might say something in passing about a piece "there was a little hesitation there one more time" and weeks later word for word the same thing.

I've found working in a very methodical way is good. We will start with some old pieces they enjoy as a warm up then have a look at the new pieces from week before break the lesson up in the middle with some written work - it is a nice way of taking a step back from the pieces, one boy particularly can get frustrated and it gives me an opportunity to leave the piece when I see warning signs without making it an issue - I finish the lesson with a couple of new pieces and a duet. (I use ministeps to music) Also in the note book i put ticks on "finished" pieces and circles on the pieces to practise. We decide together whether a piece gets a tick, I think this encourages them to listen themselves playing, and although eager to get a tick my students have been very good about getting it right and will ask for "one more week so it's perfect".

The children I teach are beginners and have made very consistent progress. With one we're just starting to jump around the piano a bit outside of 5 finger positions, although I can't say how this will work long term so far so good.

Hope this helps.

Yes that is helpful boogiecat thanks! The "cut and pasted" type phrases pinpoint exactly what I've experienced with this child!

I think some written work may help, as he certainly seems to think in a methodical way and I'd say he'd be fussy about having things organised well - plus have set work/finished work clearly defined.

I tend to be a bit strange about certain things myself (like having things in order of colour or alphabet, and I have an obsession with making lists!) so in a way I feel I can appreciate why little things that others don't care about might seem very important to someone else

His mum did say not to be afraid to be firm with him, so I had imagined I might have trouble, but I can't fault his behaviour as it has never been "bad", just different from the norm - which isn't a crime

I have been teaching one aspergers child the piano for 3 years now. She made steady progress for the first year or so, but is finding it extremely difficult to move away from one finger to one note. After a further two years she is just getting to the stage where I don't have to constantly remind her to put 'thumb under' or 3rd finger over etc. We have got through a lot of beginners books - her parents are just pleased that she enjoys a one to one with an outsider regularly, and are not bothered by the slow progress. As with your pupil, she still recalls conversations we had 3 years ago, word for word!

To understand more about Aspergers Syndrome, you should read that novel from a year or so back 'The Curious Tale of the Dog in the Night Time' by Mark Haddon.

Thanks - and Harmony2 as well.

I'll have a look at that book as well out of curiosity as I like to have as much knowledge as possible where it concerns one of the pupils. It's nice to have such an interesting job isn't it?

Was that book not about a boy with autism? Although it comes into the same category of 'communication difficulties', I think the condition is quite different.

Im sure the lad in the Curious tale had Aspergers, I think its even mentioned in the script.

Later edit:-

Ah Ive just found my copy it's 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the night time' not 'Tale'.
The summary on the back of the book says 'Christopher is fifteen and has Aspergers Syndrome'.......

There's an even better book called something like 'Freaks, Geeks and Aspergers Syndrome' which is written by Luke somebody - a boy with Aspergers, who wanted to help teachers and other people. Sorry I haven't got the full details, but I'm sure a quick search on Amazon would turn it up.

I found it a very good read, as well as very helpful in dealing with Aspergers pupils

K.

I taught a boy with diagnosed Asperger's syndrome for many years, and I found with him that if we did things methodically, ie scales, fun pieces, games, he was fine, as long as you factored in a bit of give and take, for instance after scales he would tell about the latest bus he had seen ( I know more about LOndon buses than I really want to) Also after his each piece he would get up and walk around the piano 4 times anti-clockwise, beofore sitting down to play the next piece.

At grade I, the examiner was really great, I had sent a letter with the entry explaining his quirks, and he passed.

I know what you mean about him not actually talking to you, it appears to be part and parcel of the syndrome, but once you accept this, try and make things fun, even if a lot of patience is required.

Good luck

I teach a nine year old boy who is severely autistic but gets on great guns with piano. He is actually at the stage now where I would like him to take an exam, grade 1 perhaps, as he has the skills. However, he would never cope with an exam situation or understanding of what aural tests were or even sight-reading. Is there any alternative arrangements that anybody knows about?

With the AB, there's the Performance Assessment - where you get to play for up to 15 minutes and the examiner will assess but without a pass/fail. These are open to all adults, and under 21s with special needs.

LCM also have an 8-level exam system where you just play the pieces but don't do the extra tests. Look at page 28 of their Grade Exam syllabus and then at page 26 of their piano syllabus for full details. The 8 levels are equivalent to the grades 1-8...

Yes - I use these for some of my pupils and they end up with a very nice repertoire of pieces over the years - they've always got something to play and from memory. They are equivalent to the grades but there are no UCAS points on Leisure Play exams.

I have one pupil who has done these Grade 3- 6 but is now going for a Grade 7 with all the usual scales, aural etc. It will be interesting to see how he gets on.

Ha ha! Sorry - don't know why I thought it was autism!

Aspergers is a sort of autism though, isn't that right?

it comes under the umbrella of autism

Ad libitum,

It is also a good idea to check that your pupil understands the things you say. Any jargon, technical terms or expressions may confuse him. Stick to clear vocabulary.

I also want to say good for you for trying to really help this pupil with his specific needs.

I teach a few children with autism. And there quirks are wildly different - from talking about taps to a 7 year old wanting to play everything in Csharp minor! Ive found in my experience that its a case opf getting to know every child individually, whether or not they have a label or not, then teach them accordingly. Yes, sometimes there is a lot of trial and error - such as inventing ways of trying to teach a child something new when their natural reaction is to scream and shake when anything new happens (whether in a music lesson or not) .

Reading your initial question once more, I think that your biggest challenge is to get him to act on what you ahve told him without saying the same thing more than once. I have a child who can remember EVERYTHING you tell him, but not able to put it into practice. FOr example I have said that fingers have to be walked and play smoothly - to him (after a few lessons I realised) that this meant to sway not to play legat (goodness knows why). Also, kids with aspergers often see the world differently - such as seeing a stave of 5 lines as a box with 3 lines in it.... a common one with my kids.
As for going off on irrelevant topics , I have a card on top of my piano - and when I lift it up, they can talk for so and so many minutes (usually 30 seconds) about anything.
One thing all of my aspergers pupils have in common is the inability to be able to play anything expressively without being taught how to - some manage to mimic/copy slightly - but with others I have had to find more scientific /exact ways. EG one star over the note means x amount of pressure, 2 stars means slightly more etc . All my aspergers pupils are very exact and so will practice pressure etc liek mad.
I have also found it useful with a couple to teach them chords, as they are very musical and so can play by ear (though unexpressively) and enjoy the rules of I, IV and V . Working them out and playing (repeatedly I may add) in every key. Also, many enjoy learning scales - and working them out. In my experience, they all like patterns and structure - so teaching them this side of music is great. I had a 7 year old aspergers kid today that I taught about dominant seventh chords and where they would resolve. By the end of the lesson , I was playing V7 and he was telling me the resolving chord with his eyes closed (he has perfect pitch I hasten to add). However, often normal teaching books are not the way to go in my experience. As 1. Children with aspergers get easily frustrated if they cannot succeed , adn 2. Reading is usually way behind their ability in other areas.
Some aspergers children find it hard putting pencil to paper legibly, so much so that they refuse .
Hope this helps a bit. Its late - and Im tired...

On reading this thread, I'm wondering if I have a couple of pupils with this syndrome who don't know it! I just put it down to 'individuality' and 'quirks', and as such, I've just come to terms with their traits and learnt how to handle them. One boy in particular is well known as being extremely odd, but strangeness of this kind is less prominent in a non-group situation. We just accept and go along with. But clarity of expectations seems to be very important, as well as being aware of how instructions can be misconstrued in a way that we wouldn't expect. With another child, the main concern of myself and parents in an exam situation is whether he'll be able to get through a piece without standing up and kicking the stool from under him in the middle of it.

I'm not sure what exactly I'm trying to say here. Just that maybe it can sometimes be best not to attribute labels - because there are huge deviations even within the confines of the definitions of these 'syndromes'. What is 'normal' anyway? They are all unique, and all take unique handling, which is one of the great advantages of one-to-one tuition; we're able to truly give individual attention without singling out. I've only really acknowledged the 'peculiarities' in one of my long-standing pupils since I've taken some as a group for jazz classes. I knew he was 'individualistic', but in a one-to-one scenario I was able to go along with that and it wasn't a problem - and I would have challenged any class teacher who said he was 'difficult'. But he is, in a group; he stands out a mile, and I wish I'd just kept him in that easy to manage situation where it was only me teaching only him. 'Oddness' of this kind is only 'oddness' when we compare it to the so-called norm, and it has been a shame for this to have been crystallised in the group that I now have.