Hello everyone,

I'm new here and new to the piano too. For years now I have loved a piece by D. Scarlatti - Sonata K466 in F minor - and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what sort of Grade standard it is please?

Many thanks!

Mulberry

Hi Mulberry, This is a lovely piece which I have been playing for some time, I would rate it G5. I heard Ben Grosvenor play it last July at the Ribble Valley Piano week, which was interesting. If you like this one you will also like K415, which I think is a little easier to play. I'll be interested to hear other opinions on the grade.

Yes I also like K466, not too difficult, but maybe Grade 5-6 given there's some ornamentation to master.
The other one in F minor I like is K481, a bit harder than K466 (say Grade6-7) , but in a similar sort of mood
Both are in ABRSM books (there are several)

I know the Kp.466 well and am certain it was one of my exam pieces a LONG time ago!

Yep, I've just checked my file, I played the Scarlatti for my grade 8 exam in 1991. Interesting, eh? I remember the notes themselves being easy but much control required for balancing voices....tone leading etc..Also I remember working on ornaments and pedalling very carefully so as to achieve an acceptable style.

I also love Scarlatti's K466/L118. It is one of the most heart-achingly beautiful pieces of music that I know. It has been suggested that it is Grade 5 material, but I would have thought that it was more difficult than that. It has a lot of tricky corners.

But if you really like it - what does it matter what grade someone else has chosen to categorise it. Why not try it? All you need is a clear conception of how you want it to sound, and a willingness to work hard.

It is certainly a piece that will continue to pose challenges no matter how good you get. I have several recordings of it - but Horowitz's version shows how much more even some well-respected concert pianists need to learn to play it truly well.

Hi everyone, thank you for your help!

Now, I love this piece so much that I know how it sounds inside out. I have taught myself to play it, though I can't properly play the piano. I am basically playing "by rote" and I couldn't sightread even a grade 1 piece. I simply learned it with a ###### of a lot of practice. I'm about grade 6 on another instrument so I'm not new to music - I could already read the treble clef but did not know the bass clef, and playing this piece is helping me to learn it!

I am very happy, the trills and appogiaturas seem to fall naturally as I play, and I'm able to enjoy the piece and put feeling into it. This is just because I adore the piece so much, I could never have done this with any other piece of music. I can play the piece well enough for my mother-in-law to say she really enjoyed it - blimey!! It is THE piece of music that has always made me wish I could play the piano and I am really happy because I know that as I learn to play the piano properly, I'll be able to play this piece even better.

It's sooo beautiful I promise that I will learn to play properly and I will get a teacher, so please don't be harsh with me for doing this! I was very surprised when I heard it was a higher standard piece than I thought it would be (I thought it might be grade 3 or 4) but obviously there is no way I am even Grade 1 standard, I don't know the scales and I cannot sightread!!

Many thanks

Mulberrygirl x

Thats a lovely story Mulberrygirl, good luck with your music !
And if you want to try another one, the K481 mentioned earlier is in a similar mood and key.

Thanks very much fsharminor! I don't think I have the abilty to tackle another Scarlatti piece yet, especially one I don't know, but I am going to try listening to more of his pieces so I will make sure I listen to that one

I'm excited because of all the lovely piano music out there - I definitely want to learn to play properly!

Hello again Mulberry girl. I can only echo fsharpminor's comments. If you can play this piece, i.e. the right notes in the right order at anywhere near the right speed and you don't even consider yourself G1, then there is a great repertoire of classical piano music out there waiting for you. There are a number of similar pieces to k466 by other composers e.g. Janacek, Scriabin, Lyadov, etc., etc., which are equally beautiful. Good luck with progressing your music.

Thanks oldnotes No, I can't say I'm grade one, I honestly couldn't sightread anything because I'm still learning the bass clef. I think my ability to play this piece is probably just down to "muscle memory" or something like that. I'm certainly not able to play it perfectly, but I can play the piece all the way through at a gentle speed (not sure if it's the correct speed but it sounds nice to me) with just a few hesitant bits here and there which I am hoping will improve as I practice. The trills aren't always perfect either! I'm going to get my boyfriend to video me when I am feeling brave enough, so maybe I will be able to get some advice from people here

I will definitely explore more piano music. I never even considered playing the piano before, as I was convinced it would be an instrument that I'd never be able to play, but I am surprised and very happy that I have been able to pick this piece up and it is encouraging me to learn more

There is a video of a magnificent performance of this piece by Horowitz on YouTube here. K466 is about 5 minutes into the performance, after God Save the Queen and a different Sonata

Thanks Tom! I'm afraid I haven't heard of Horowitz before....

I've just made a little video of the beginning of the piece and put it on Youtube, I'd have done more but I cocked up and then when I went to re-record it the batteries on my camera went! But I'm thinking that it might be fun to make videos as I learn the piece, to record my progress and help me improve. Why is it that I can play it fine when I'm on my own, but if I have any sort of audience or a camera there I make mistakes?

The video is here, I know there are mistakes in it and I know that I can make it sound more soulful but hey ho.....I probably have my hands in completely the wrong positions, if anyone can advise me on that I would be very grateful!

Scarlatti played by me


Many thanks for all your encouragement

Just listened to it, youve done really well with that for a pianist picking it up from scratch ! It just shows what can be achieved with a little application !

Now I have a confession to make. Whilst I have been posting ont his thread, I now realise I have got the 2 F Minor Sonatas K466 and K481 mixed up ! So if you now try to have ago at K481, you should find it less difficult than K466.

That is fantastic. You have done amazingly well to learn it entirely unaided, as your first piano piece. (But it is obvious that you were already a good musician).

You have that hard to define - but easily recognized - thing called talent.

So get a good teacher before you drift into too many bad habits. Then get practicing!


I am afraid that he is dead - I think he died in 1995 or thereabouts - a bad period for piano playing when all the great soloists (Horowitz, Arrau, Kempf, Rubinstein, ...) seemed to be dying.

Thank you both, your comments are very kind though I can promise that it is application rather than talent that has got me this far! I simply find the piece inspirational and I can't wait until I have got it technically secure so I can really enjoy playing with the feeling of it.

I know I need a teacher, money is very tight at the moment though, which is why I have posted the video on Youtube - I'm hoping to get advice from people who can already play the piano, which I hope will go some way to helping me avoid bad habits! A friend of mine has already pointed out that my seat is too low, so I'll have to get hold of a proper adjustable piano stool at some point.

fsharpminor, I'm just about to download K481 from iTunes now I'll have to find a book with it in because it's not in the Scarlatti album that I have, but I will definitely give it a go as I don't want to risk getting bored of K466 and my playing of it becoming stale.

Many thanks again!

Mulberry xx

The ability to apply yourself effectively is the essence of talent

I really don't have any particular talent though, honestly. I can apply myself to K466 because it's simply an amazing piece of music and I have loved it for the past 16 years without ever getting bored of it. It's the only piece of music that I have been able to constantly listen to over and over again without getting fed up! This is about Scarlatti's talent as a composer rather than my own ability.

Now I have acquired the sheet music and a recording of K481 (thanks Tom for pointing me in the right direction), and it's really beautiful but it seems so much more difficult than K466 because I don't know it! I've had a go, and I'll play a litte of it every day and see where I get to, but I'm not expecting that I'll be able to play it anytime soon. I'm excited by the thought that *eventually* I might be able to play it though - thank you so much for introducing me to it

Oh I thought it was me who suggested K481 ! But I dont take offence !
I think its easier than K466 anyway.

Why is it that I can play it fine when I'm on my own, but if I have any sort of audience or a camera there I make mistakes?
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If you ever find an answer to this question please let me know, I don't have one!

Sorry fsharpminor, my thanks were intended to be for you too! Tom helped me to locate a pdf of the sheet music I guess technically 481 might be easier than 466 to people who know what they're doing, but it's more difficult for me because I don't know it whereas I've been listening to 466 for years and years so I know how it's supposed to sound, and to be honest I am rubbish at getting rhythms and timing right when I'm sightreading

The interfering Ego! You are worried about what people will think of you, when you should be focussed on the music itself.

I agree with you there, but it's a case of easier said than done, Madtom. I'm sure lots of people suffer from this problem (interfering ego as you call it), but concentrating on the music is certainly difficult when your mind is on other things. How do you manage to block out distractions and focus solely on the music? Any tips? And I like the Scarlatti too