Having recently read a number of questions about memorising pieces it's made me wonder how well people remember pieces and what people mean when they say that they find it difficult to memorise. I've spoken to people who, like me, say that if they play a piece they can't help but remember it in a very short time. At first I used to think that I was just doing this because I couldn't read the music well enough to be able to play it without memorising it (indeed I learnt the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata in this way before I started playing 'properly' simply because the only way to play it was to rote learn it) but now that I can read music well enough and am playing pieces at the appropriate level I still memorise them really quickly. There is usually a time now with each piece where, for a few days, I can play it with the music but not without, but this is rather short lived and I can soon play it from memory even if I try not to memorise. The only other way to play not from memory is to go back to an old piece which I have forgotten (although I've usually not forgotten most of it) at which point I can also play and actually have to read.

Anyway, to get to the point of the question, when people say that they can't play from memory what do they mean? There's a big difference between playing from memory to yourself and playing from memory under the pressure of a recital or exam. I used to be able to rattle off the first movement of Moonlight to myself all day never forgetting it but if I was nervous playing it in front of someone I would invariably forget something somewhere... (that was probably due to fragile finger memory and rote learning at the time).

I haven't asked this question in any of the other threads about memorising as I didn't want to offend anyone was struggling with it (and I don't think badly of people that can't memorise, in fact I attach far more importance to reading than memorisation) but when people say that they can't memorise do they mean that they actually couldn't play a piece that they've been working on for a good length of time (say an exam piece) if they didn't have the music? If not how far through it could they get without music: could they play the first bar? Perhaps could get to the end of the first phrase? Could give a sketchy outline of most of the whole piece? Is it just fine detail or dynamics that would be forgotten? How does it take before natural memory would kick in, or would it never? Or when people say they can't memorise do they just mean that they wouldn't trust their memory under the pressure of an exam or recital but could actually play the piece without music if they were alone in a room?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not implying in any way that people who can't memorise are bad at playing; it's just that as a natural memoriser I can't understand what is meant by "can't memorise"; is it possible to play something for a very long time and not remember any of it?

(Note for anyone who gets confused: the two identical choices with yes and no reversed are intentional to find out whether people consider that to be 'able to memorise' or not).

I find memorising really easy and I like to play from memory as I feel I can think more about the music without having to worry about looking at the score. However, I voted that I would be a bit worried about playing from memory in an exam. This is because I would worry that my memory might let me down under pressure. I think this is partly due to nerves but also because I don't think I am memorising the pieces well enough. When I play from memory I think perhaps I doing it by remembering finger patterns, hence if i stop during a piece I can't always pick it up from any point I need to go back to the start of a phrase. I think I need to spend more time studying the score, maybe away from the piano, to help reinforce my memory.

One of my long term goals is to be able to play under pressure from memory and I have been working on this and my perfomance nerves by taking every opportunity to play in front of people. Several months ago I did play Fur Elise (the full version) at a small recital from memory and I did not have a problem with forgetting it half way through. I was really pleased as not so long ago I have had some real disasters playing in front of people. This has given me the confidence to play again from memory. However, I don't think I would want to test it out in an exam yet but would in the future. Maybe grade 8 or diploma, if I ever get there.

i think it's quite easy...as i memorise things naturally...

Some things I memorise naturally, but these are few and far between.
They usually have fairly obvious harmonic progressions. Sometimes things which are awkward to read are easier to memorise because of the reading difficulty, if you know what I mean.
Not too bad on things which are well below my level.

I normally end up memorising most of my favourite pieces - not from trying too, just because I play them so often that I remember how it feels to play them! I wouldn't like to do it in an exam though, unless I had to, because I would panic if I went wrong! Useful to learn though - it means you don't have to lug loads of music around with you everytime you want to play something! Another good thing to learn is playing with your eyes shut - it makes you thinkabout how it feels to play the music, not just reading it!

I'll be taking the other view then! If I was to generalize my ability, I would say that I'm more of a natural sight reader than a memorizer. If you place a piece infront of me, on the whole I'll be able to play most of it to a reasonable standard. However, I find it quite difficult to memorize. I can play a few choice pieces off by heart, but most of those I've had to sit down and learn. As some of you have said, when I've played a piece alot, I find that I can play it for memory, but only the first few bars, and through time (and some trial and error!!) I find I can play it by heart. But overall, if I said to myself that I wanted to know a piece by memory, I would have to sit down and play phrases over and over again, with different methods of covering it over and checking. This is quite often a relatively fast process, but not as fast as you all seem to be at memorizing. Hopefully that shows a slightly different perspective - I have to commit myself to learning the piece off by heart, I'm not just able to rattle it off!!

I find music like a comfort blanket - if the page is in front of me I can often play the piece without looking at it, but if I close the book I can't usually get more than three bars before I stop entirely. i usually find myself improvising (badly) on the piece rather than playing it properly!

I did learn two grade 3 pieces by heart but I can only play them from beginning to end, i can't start in the middle. I also find when I am playing from music I can only play starting at certain points - probably something wrong in the way i practice

My experience with memory mirrors your own, exactly, AnotherPianist.

There has been much written on this across the forums over past months.

I would make 2 points.

1. I share my piano teachers view that there are 2 types of pianists:

Sightreaders and memorisers and that few of us are in between, in other words we all lean heavily to one side or the other

2. That the more we rely on memory the more difficult it becomes to sight read well and to improve sightreading as we learn not to look at the score and if we did keep the score in front of us, the sheer dint of it being there would helps us sub consciously to reinforce notes and chord patterns.

i am the same with catrin!
once i close the book, then i totally can;t remember

but then, i will remember if i constantly play the piece all over and over again

its like an automatic thing

I memorise everything I play - unintentionally.

It can be very frustrating. After about 3 times through it's stuck in memory.

I had learnt/memorised all my chosen GIII piano pieces in 4 weeks.
Might sound great but you certainly don't get much experience of 'reading' music hence verrrry bad at sight reading - well actually lots better now !

I have a very similar way of learning pieces to AP Moonlight etc.

I've just got my GIV pieces and my teacher noticed after a couple of times through, it's strting to stick again !!! So he's having me make a concious effort not to look at the keybord.

Sounded terrible at first hitting all the wrong notes but it is actually working !

I think this issue is related to poor sight reading. If you memorise everything, you aren't getting much experience at actually reading.

After playing piano 4 years, I feel that I probably only have about 2yrs experience of actually reading.

Does that make sense ?

Fiona

Well I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I sightread reasonably well, and I find after a few play-throughs of a piece I start to memorise parts of it. Trouble is, I stop looking at the music and drift off into my own world - then reach a part I haven't memorised yet and can't find my place. So, I always memorise exam pieces thoroughly to stop this from happening - but I also always have the music in front of me as a "security blanket". I find memorising entire pieces of exam music at Grade VI + very hard, though - generally over four pages, mulitiply by three pieces...

Playing for my own amusement I just half-read half-memorise and don't worry if I have to stop and find my place. Couldn't give a recital like that, though!

Fred
(piano and clarinet for now, used to do guitar and singing back in the stone age when time was more plentiful)

Firstly thanks to everyone for your replies. So I think that I'm getting the idea that can't memorise means could play it a little but not very well; not that it would be impossible to even attempt the piece.

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Oct 4 2004, 10:19 PM)

1.  I share my piano teachers view that there are 2 types of pianists: Sightreaders and memorisers and that few of us are in between, in other words we all lean heavily to one side or the other.

I'd like to believe that this doesn't have to be true: I know someone who is an excellent sightreader and can also memorise things naturally and easily as well; I'm hoping that I will, as a natural memoriser, be able to become a good sightreader too; although admittedly I do read pieces now and try not to memorise them too soon as not doing so would be going back to the old rote learning style. Of course the only way for anyone, even the best pianists, to learn small hideously difficult sections would be by rote. I think the reason that this divide exists is probably just, as you say, that memorisers don't get much reading practice due to the nature of the way that they play; and that readers don't get much memorising practice because they read everything.

Maybe memorising is also linked to playing by ear: particularly if you have perfect pitch all you have to do is remember what it sounds like, not the notes themselves. It also seems to be a phenomenon more common amongst adult learners: maybe because adults realise that there is a quick way to learn hard pieces by memorising them before they could read them without doing so; where as children don't realise this so readily and don't have the patience to learn a harder piece or are happier with the simpler ones.

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Oct 5 2004, 02:47 PM)

Of course the only way for anyone, even the best pianists, to learn small hideously difficult sections would be by rote.

I think that perhaps all piano playing involves memorisation of some sort. When a pianist looks at a score there is so much going on that he/she can't possibly be able to read all the notes. Part of playing the piano is surely having to learn the finger patterns and be able to play without having to think about what your fingers are doing all the time. This is memorising even if you play with the score in front of you.

QUOTE

Maybe memorising is also linked to playing by ear: particularly if you have perfect pitch all you have to do is remember what it sounds like, not the notes themselves.

This is an interesting point because when I am playing from memory I quite often find singing along with the music helps, although I haven't got perfect pitch, and you can't do that in an exam .

I agree with all you say, AnotherPianist. The ideal is somewhere in between and what we should all strive for. And this chimes with Lucia's point:

quote : I think that perhaps all piano playing involves memorisation of some sort. When a pianist looks at a score there is so much going on that he/she can't possibly be able to read all the notes. Part of playing the piano is surely having to learn the finger patterns and be able to play without having to think about what your fingers are doing all the time. This is memorising even if you play with the score in front of you.Quote

My piano teacher classified herself as a sight reader but I am sure she did all of the above.

Perhaps what we are all saying is that it is one thing to memorise a piece and then (as in my case) months later forget it and have to learn it all over again but quite another to have learned a piece, as Lucia describes above, and be able to play it later from sight having already rememberd the finger patterns, the difficult chords and rhythms etc from when it was learned the first time. Is this the ideal? I think it might be.

So again the sight reader comes out on top here!