Beth, aged 11, is taking her Grade 5 Theory in June having got a merit for her Grade 1 last June.
We have found this message board extremely helpful.
We are looking the ABRSM guidelines for the composition question and have found the following:

4. a line within the compass for all but one or at most two notes;

All I can think is that they mean that you should use all or the vast majority, of the notes in the scale but I could be completely wrong.
Could someone please help with this.
Thanks
Dora (smilie added by Beth)

Could you tell us where you read these guidelines, so as to put the phrase in context. It doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

I don't really understand the quote (perhaps you could give us the whole sentence?) but I think it's far more likely to mean that only one or two notes should fall outside the compass (however that is defined) rather than meaning you should use all but one or two notes of the scale.

Other than perhaps using a tone row, I can't think of an occasion where you must use all the notes of a scale in the melody. But there could be something I haven't thought of.


Glad I'm not alone there!

I got the guidelines from here
http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=4715
I suspect that isn't as much help as it might be.
Thanks
Dora (smilie added by Beth)

In which case I assume 'compass' to mean the range of the specified instrument; therefore marks could be deducted for writing notes outside that instrument's range. (You have quoted from the description of answers which would score around 10/15. This includes examples of errors that could result in the loss of around 5 marks.)

In which case I assume 'compass' to mean the range of the specified instrument; therefore marks could be deducted for writing notes outside that instrument's range. (You have quoted from the description of answers which would score around 10/15. This includes examples of errors that could result in the loss of around 5 marks.)
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That makes sense. Thank you so much for working it out. I'm really struggling to help Beth.
Dora

Yes, I agree. Keep within the compass of the instrument. You don't have to learn them all necessarily, but have a good idea as to whether a flute plays higher notes or lower notes for example.

Lots of us will answer any question you throw at us, so keep them coming if you need to!

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That makes sense. Thank you so much for working it out. I'm really struggling to help Beth.
Dora
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Does Dora not have a teacher? It's a BIG jump from Grade I to Grade V which could be tricky if you're trying to teach her and you don't have a background in music. (Don't want to be negative, but misunderstandings can easily arise in theory, and it would be a shame if she didn't do well.)

[quote name='Czerny' date='May 11 2008, 12:19 PM' post='697405']
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That makes sense. Thank you so much for working it out. I'm really struggling to help Beth.
Dora
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Does Dora not have a teacher? It's a BIG jump from Grade I to Grade V which could be tricky if you're trying to teach her and you don't have a background in music. (Don't want to be negative, but misunderstandings can easily arise in theory, and it would be a shame if she didn't do well.)
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Yes Beth has a teacher. She is studying at the Junior Conservatoire in Birmingham and get a half hour group theory lesson each week. Plus since Easter her old piano teacher is giving her a half hour lesson a week. But I'm finding that by the time her teacher has marked a past paper we have pretty much run out of time.
Beth has worked her way through all the workbooks now and over the last three weeks has been getting better and better marks on the non-composition questions, her last mark was 64/85.

I've got, and read the Take Five book, which I like and I've printed off all the lessons on MusicTheory.com which I also like. I'm planning to pay the money for her to get compositions marked there after next week. (Beth is doing SATS next week)

Beth is making the kind of silly mistakes that most children her age make but generally once she has been taught something she has got it and we are not having to go over the same ground again.

Now I'm starting to work on her composition. Obviously at her age and the speed she has been working at she is very unlikely to get a distinction, I hoping she might get a merit but a pass is all we need. But in September she will move on to Grade 6 and I understand that the composition is very important at Grade 6 so I'm keen to get her off to a good start.

I am very concerned about the risk of me misleading Beth. I'm a mathematician by training and while I can pick a tune out I'm not exactly musical. Some things I find easy, intervals and time signatures for example. I've not got into the circle of fifths but Beth understands that so I'm leaving her to it.

I am finding these forums incredibly useful thanks to all the people who are kind enough to answer my queries.
Thank you
Dora

Sounds like everything's on track. Hope all goes well for Beth.

(Sorry - you're Dora! )

Please, please, don't take this the wrong way, but why the need to push her onto grade 6? As I've read on these forums (from experienced teachers) you need a very firm grasp of everything in the earlier grades, ie so much so that you can score in the 90s in grade 5 past papers, before attempting grade 6. Perhaps you do have your reasons, but isn't such continual exam preparation going to take some of the enjoyment out of music for her?

Please, please, don't take this the wrong way, but why the need to push her onto grade 6? As I've read on these forums (from experienced teachers) you need a very firm grasp of everything in the earlier grades, ie so much so that you can score in the 90s in grade 5 past papers, before attempting grade 6. Perhaps you do have your reasons, but isn't such continual exam preparation going to take some of the enjoyment out of music for her?
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Actually I'm kind of guessing that that is what happens next. The Conservatoire's policy is to get the Grade 5 as fast as possible. Although even they said that Beth couldn't get from I to V in 12 months. They stopped saying that when she moved on to the Grade 4 book before Christmas and moved her to a different group. LOL.
Beth will continue to have Theory lessons next year but I don't think she will ever actually enter for her Grade 6 exam. I guess the next one she will take will be her Grade 8.
I have a son who is a year older than Beth who is also keen on music but doesn't want to study as she does. Obviously he will need to do his Grade 5 and I thought that I would work with both of them on the Grade 5 theory next year to help Beth consolidate what she has learnt this year so hopefully she has the sound foundation she needs. As far as I can see she has pretty much got it all apart from the vocabulary which I am working on with her.
My son's piano teacher and cornet teacher do theory with him as part of his normal lessons so he will get lessons too.
I do hear what you are saying and I take it very seriously. Once she has the Grade 5 there is nothing to be gained by rushing on. I'm sure the Conservatoire will ensure that Beth is doing what she needs to do.
Thanks a lot
Dora

Well, the very best of luck to her. Please let us know how she gets on!

I may be totally wrong but I find it very difficult to believe that by 'compass' they mean range. The first thing that came to mind for me was the circle of fifths, thus referring to ALL possible keys.

After all, a compass goes around 360 ' and restarts. The range doesn't do this. You go from the lowest note to the highest.

If by chance thay are using this word to mean 'range' then perhaps they should change it.


Steve

PS I just thought of it in the context of 'encompassing' in which case...???

Nonsense. 'Compass' = scope, range, area, extent, breadth.

A Grade V theory composition that has to go through all the different keys? Don't be ridiculous.

There are eight bars to do it in though.

Whoops, I forgot that it was describing the composition. Perhaps all keys is a little much for 8 bars.

Steve

PS I still think that compass is a very poor synonym for range. I can't recall ever hearing it used in this way.

I'm sure I've heard it used like this before... but then I seem to gather seldom used words

The (monolingual) "Oxford New Dictionary of English" enters, among others, this meaning of the word "compass"
compass: the range or scope of something and the examples given for this meaning seem to confirm that the "compass" of an instrument" is its range.
Examples: <... political repercussions which are well beyond the compass of this book>; <goods and services that fall within the compass of the free market>.

Hope this helps,
John