I've heard this debate appear in a number of threads but it's never had it's own so I thought I'd make one for it. The big question:

Is it true that children learn better than adults? I split the poll to give an idea of the cross section of who thinks what (and because I like to make things complicated ).

Personally I believe that it isn't true. A lot of it I suppose depends on the ability of the individuals themselves, just as some children learn better than other children; some children will learn better than some adults and some adults will learn better than some children. Surely if someone has always been good at learning they won't suddenly become bad at it when they hit 18 (otherwise degree courses are certainly done at the wrong stage during life!). I can't see any reason why anyone beginning learning as an adult can't be as good as if not better than someone who started learning as a child. Maybe adults even learn better because they already have experience of many things and can learn by linking experiences; furthermore particularly young children may have problems because they can't read yet so reading music will be more difficult and they haven't developed generally the same knowledge and perhaps some don't have the same motivation as adults, made to do it by parents etc.

Obviously I'm not saying that people shouldn't learn instruments as children (indeed I believe quite the opposite) but that those who didn't shouldn't feel doomed to a slow rate of progress.

Don't be afraid to say if you think that adults will learn slower, it won't be a very interesting debate if it's one sided!

I don't think children necessarily learn better than adults. I would agree with you that I think that alot of it depends on natural ability.

In my own experience I learnt the flute as a child and am learning piano as an adult. I have definetly progressed much better on the piano than I did on the flute in the same time span. This is down to several reasons, firstly I know the theory, I practice more than I ever did as a child, but also I started learning the piano having had many years of listening to music and going to concerts etc. The latter is one of the biggest disavantages that children have.

In the long run it depends on the person, whether child or adult.

But having taught both children and adults for over 20 years, it is often noticeable that beginner adults make VERY quick progress up to about Grade 1 level, far quicker than most children. After that things tend to slow down a little.

The main problem with the adults I have taught is that they tend to expect far too much from themselves, far too soon, and become disheartened when they can't achieve it easily. Often, after the initial flush of enthusiasm, they gradually become less diligent in their practice - most have very busy family lives - which doesn't help!

I am CONVINCED that children learn an instrument easier and better than an adult!
And it sticks with them too!
I learnt piano as a child to grade 8, and still today I can sit down and play from memory many of the grade pieces, along with other pieces I played for fun (ragtime etc).
When I was 18 I started Saxophone, and I still believe I don't have a good tone or will ever be very good on this.
I 'played around' with guitar as a kid - can still remember today every chord etc.
When I was 25 I took up the Church Organ (ie: pedals as well), and what a challenge that was - despite passing a tough audition to get into the College of Music (Dublin).
Last year I took up the cello (at 41), and I wish i'd taken this up as a kid. I see 12 year olds playing it with ease - as if its just natural to play it!
My five year old has started violin, and is already Grade 1 standard (ish).
The pieces I play today don't stick in memory any more, I need the music in front to play them.

My belief is - a childs 'fresh' brain generates new clean pathways which are there forever.
An adult thrashes out pathways in an overgrown jungle only to find it regrows quickly and the tracks disappear !

I think..it depends..

like for me, i am considered an adult beginner, learning at 15 the flute and 16 the piano.

As for my instruments, i think i have achieved quit a bit in a short time. Some people are fast learners, others not. I played recorder in year 3, so i was familiar with notes and fingerings.

Some adults have the ability to generate and remmeber information quicker.

A topic close to my heart, with 2 children learning along side me.

Such a lot to say and so many thoughts on this one. In short I do not know...and I will be interested to hear what others think... but I do err on the side of thinking that, yes, it is harder and slower going as an adult for all sorts of obvious reasons. Inclined to agree with joclarinet. However, there is a world of difference between:

an adult of 18 and an adult of 48 and
an adult who has never played an instrument before and one who has and
a talented adult and an untalented child

so lots of variables to sort out first..

...and I think the saying about old dogs and new tricks does hold true in many situations including this one!!!

hi, im 18 and am often told by my piano teacher that students who pick up instruments around my age (not just me ) pick things up quicker than very young learners and older adults. Apperently this is due to our brains being more 'spungy' (i like that description )

i think in the end it depends on the person and how dedicated they are tho- somebody who practises regularly and really wants to learn will always make more progress than somebody who doesn't, regardless of age.

-

You can tell at a first lesson (unfortunately, sometimes!) with someone whether they have a natural aptitude for music and the instrument you are teaching, and it does not seem to be age-dependent at all.

I think you shd read the book by Shinichi Suzuki 'Nurtured with Love'. Very true abt talent education and that talent is not something that people are 'born with', but something that is nurtured. Just bought the book... costed me SGD$30+..

basically what this books says is that

the reason why

1) some children learn faster than other children or adults (are talented) is because of musical exposure when they are infants (eg. have musical familes etc.)

2) some children learn slower than other children is because of inadequate/wrong musical exposure since infancy (eg. they have parents/friends/or even teachers who always sing/play out of tune to them, etc)

3) some adults learn faster than children because --> same reason as (1), but because they have no chance to learn when they are young

4) some adults learn slower than children because --> same reason as (2)

so what this book implys is that talent have to be nurtured since infancy (below 3yrs old), and that talent is not born with.

Hmm, my mother can't sing in tune at all yet I have quite good pitch. I think that there might be more to it than that...

Thanks for the replies so far and keep them coming, the votes are quite balanced at the moment but the comments are all but one on the same side!

Wish I could find that book (it's here somewhere!):
"The Musical Education of the Child", by Stewart MacPherson.
He's researched this topic in huge depth, and I remember him saying that by the time a child has reached their late teens (he gives an age I think), if they have not been exposed to music, their ear will be almost untrainable. I would prefer to quote the book, but can I find it!?
If I do find it, I'll post some of his findings, very interesting stuff. It is an old-ish book and he could of course be wrong - and there are exceptions to EVERY theory.
Recommend the book - if it is a bit tough reading sometimes.

I have an article from a series 'music and physiology' which I've mentioned before.

It explored the idea that there were group of musically gifted people (of any age). The idea was tha, if such a group existed, then they should be identifiable because they would need less practise to reach a particular standard than a 'non gifted' group.

What they found was that proficiency was almost totally dependent upon the amount of practise done during a lifetime.

In fact, children recognised as 'musically gifted' actually did so much practice that their rate of progress (hours per grade) was actually slightly lower that the less able children, so if anything they were actually leaning more slowly!

Of course, this doen't mean that we could all become Mozarts if we practiced enough, but it does imply that most people could reach a quite reasonable standard if they practised prooperly and consistently.

QUOTE

most people could reach a quite reasonable standard if they practised prooperly and consistently.

I couldn't agree more with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

QUOTE

3) some adults learn faster than children because --> same reason as (1), but because they have no chance to learn when they are young

that's me

QUOTE

most people could reach a quite reasonable standard if they practised prooperly and consistently

I agree with this too because i do this and this statement is true!!!!

Are you an adult Missfabflute?

QUOTE (missfabflute @ Oct 12 2004, 05:48 AM)

QUOTE 3) some adults learn faster than children because --> same reason as (1), but because they have no chance to learn when they are young that's me QUOTE most people could reach a quite reasonable standard if they practised prooperly and consistently I agree with this too because i do this and this statement is true!!!!

On second tghoughts I should have said *all* people can reach a reasonable standard if they practiced...

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Oct 11 2004, 10:56 AM)

Hmm, my mother can't sing in tune at all yet I have quite good pitch. I think that there might be more to it than that...

my mum also can't sing in tune.. lol... but fortunately.. that doesn't affect me because I liked singing since young and I always liked to listen to radio and TV commercials songs.....instead of listening to my mum!

likewise there are people who have parents with perfect pitch but are tone deaf themselves because they did not have proper coaching when they were young...

QUOTE (cecilia @ Oct 12 2004, 06:47 AM)

Are you an adult Missfabflute?

erm..im 17

is that an adult??

i think i consider myself as an adult beginner because i *officially* played a proper instrument at 15 only...the recorder doesnt count does it?