Can anyone tell me what are the essential differences between a euphonium and a baritone horn?

My son has been learning euphonium using the rather grotty school instrument (4 valve). I spotted a new "euphonium" on ebay, and emailed his teacher, who said it looked like a good buy. It was described as an Elkhart Series II (3 valve). I bought it. When it arrived my son commented it seemed small compared with the school instrument, but he rather liked that. We tried to insert his euphonium practice mute. It went in but stuck rather a long way out of the bell. I looked at pictures of euphoniums and baritone horns on the internet. The pipework on the newly acquired "euphonium" looked just like that of various baritone horns pictured.

I talked to his teacher by 'phone. He's yet to see the instrument. Initially he agreed with me that we might well have got a baritone horn. This conclusion was reached mostly based on the diameter of the mouthpiece where it sticks into the rest of the instrument. Subsequently, however, he 'phoned me back to say he'd looked at the ebay pictures again and thought it was, actually, a "narrow bore euphonium".

I have contacted the seller who is adamant it is a euphonium, though agreeing it does look like a baritone horn. It came with a Denis Wick, 6BY mouthpiece, which is listed in Denis Wick's leaflet as a euphonium mouthpiece "USA and Japan fitting".

So, what have we got and how can we tell for sure?

My son does not mind, really, whether it is a baritone or a euphonium. As I said, he finds this instrument easier to handle than the school instrument, and is not bothered by (indeed rather likes) the fact that baritone is uniquely a brass band instrument. He quite fancies playing something even more esoteric than the euphonium and will now be a little disappointed to find this actually is a euphonium! Of course, I will feel like a mug if it's a baritone horn....

Thanks!

Not a lot to be honest! A Euphonium has a mellower sound although tone quality depends very much on the person too! A professional obviously should be able to get both bright and mellow sounds from the instrument. They more or less the same, has the same method of reading music and same length of tubing, and both are primarily brass band instruments! It depends on the bore size and inner makings (Euphonium is more conical to give a mellower sound), which is extremely difficult to tell by eye. Better check with the teacher.

In Europe, the distinction between euphonium (tuba family) and baritone horn (saxhorn family), which is one of bore and shape, is carefully maintained. In the British brass band, they have different parts, with the baritone and tenor horns working together, and the euphonium(s) being independent. The distinction is particularly clear in bass solos, where the euphonium, trombones and basses play the tune, while baritone horns play the accompaniment (often "chuck-chucks"). In the US, where wind bands are common and brass bands rare, the distinction is not so well maintained, and instruments are made which are intermediate between European baritones and euphoniums. Note that an Elkhart instrument was probably made in Elkhart, Indiana, where C G Conn started making brass instruments in 1876; if not, then probably to a design that originated at the Conn-Selmer factory there. Ownership and alliances of US instrument manufacturers are rather complicated, and locations of manufacturing facilities volatile.

It looks like you have got yourself a small bore American Euphonium... which unfortunately is actually probably the worst thing you could have bought. Sorry to have to tell you this but it isn't a baritone and will make a different sound to a baritone and also a different sound to a euphonium. Unfortunatelyyour son won't be all that welcome to play that instrument in any british brass bands.

I would advice you stick it back on ebay and get him either a euphonium or a baritone. However, as the baritone can only be used in brass bands it would probably be better to get him a euphonium if he is able to hold one comfortably.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but really your sons teacher should have realised.

I think that's a bit harsh! I run a youth brass band and all are welcome, whatever the type of instrument they play. Maybe in higher level bands they'd have something to say (but then, they'd also be able to lend out a good quality instrument) but any decent-minded youth band or teacher would never turn a beginner away.

Well... It turned out that this ebay instrument sounded pretty horrible too.. My son's teacher remained convinced that it is a euphonium but just couldn't get some of the notes to play in tune. Like roryt, he suggested we stick it back on ebay, but maybe after putting up with it for 6 months. However, it just sounded so awful with the backing CD that my son was using, that it was hampering his progress, and I felt obliged to go and rent an instrument from our local brass shop at half term. Now he's playing a 3 valve Jupiter, which is definitely a euphonium and he's doing well, but I think it will still be a very long time before we need to worry about what sort of welcome he will get in a brass band!!

So, needless to say, I have learnt my lesson.. I suppose we will put the ebay instrument up for sale again, though I will feel sorry for its recipient. I'm wondering how I can describe it honestly and still hope to get rid of it.... I'm disappointed as I've had two excellent 2nd hand clarinets from ebay. Can't win 'em all I suppose..