I posted a topic on here a while ago asking about teaching books for the piano and said I was planning on teaching towards the end of the year. I got lots of positive comments back. I have since read lots of not so encouraging comments on threads about teaching.

I am in my late twenties and am currently working on my grade 7 pieces and will be doing grade 8 next year. I am also revising for my grade 6 theory as I want a secure knowledge of this area. I did a PGCE and while whole class primary teaching wasn't for me, I really want to teach the piano. From the PGCE I am used to lesson planning, different learning styles, use of praise and how to differentiate.

I am currently teaching two adult beginners for practice and have had really positive feedback. One of them has told me she has been practicing in the mornings before work as she enjoys it so much and another one said she liked my style of teaching as I cover lots of theory on the way.

My teacher thinks I will be able to do it. He is very good and I have really excelled. He has been teaching for years and didn't do his grade 8 until two years ago. My previous teacher was classically trained on many instruments but the teaching was not as good. To teach an instrument a solid knowledge of the instrument is obviously needed, I do not dispute that, but maybe actually being a good teacher is the most important thing.

I know there are lots of topics like this, but I just wondered what people thought, considering my circumstances.

I agree being good on your instrument and being able to teach it well are not necessarily the same thing. You sound like you are on the right track - trust your instincts and what your teacher says.

I spoke about this a few days ago on another thread, and totally disagree with the whole 'you need to have a list of qualifications as long as your arm and you need this and that and this and... to become a teacher'. I havent yet done my Grade 8 as I've only now started lessons after a gap and I have a grade 3 distinction pupil under my belt, yet Im nowhere near qualified. You however have a PGCE so you'll be more than fine. My piano also told me once you've accomplished Grade 5, you should be able to teach up to about Grade 3.
The point of it is teaching music to me is about sharing your musical knowledge with others, and helping the pupil fulfill their pleasures and enjoy their love of music.

Ahhh, just go for it love You seem to want to do it alot, and that will reflect in your teaching resulting in well educated students.

I don't agree with some of the negative comments about young people wanting to start teaching. I say 'go for it' too. For me, the most important criteria for a young teacher is to know how to manage very young child beginners and how to make the lesson fun for them. It took longer for me to click with teaching adults, but it is vital that you have the basics in place for children so that no harm is done. I read a phrase somewhere 'hasten slowly'. An enthusiastic, young beginner teacher is going to be conscientious and willing to learn - what more could one ask. Having a high class performing diploma is great but will not necessarily equip a student in how to select the right tutor book for that first lesson. Build up your expertise and performing ability as you go and over the years you will develop the knowledge, technique and skill to teach the high grades. Go on lots of courses and build up your CPD. I'm still learning - I've been teaching 24 years - I started with Grade 6 but I could sight-read higher, my rudiments of theory were solid and I had some supervision. My first students got merits and distincitions like AntonPiano. I was never, and never will be, a concert pianist. That's why there are separate diplomas for teaching, performing and directing.

Beth's saxophone teacher is 16 but does have her Grade 8 distinction. I sit in on all the lessons, I sit in on all of Beth's lessons. I would have no concerns about not sitting in on sax lessons it is just useful to do it.
The whole thing is going very well. Beth adores her and we get an excellent lesson each week. Beth started in January and does her Grade 3 in June. She will stay with her teacher for one more year and then I expect Music College to separate them.
I am a teacher, of finance, of long standing and I find that the first time I teach something has a freshness that it hard to inject into very familiar topics. I think Beth's sax lessons have that freshness which is very nice for her.
Dora

Similar story in a way. My eldest was taught Sax by one of the woodwind Peris. I had to sit outside the door for 15 mins whilst waiting with the youngest for her Oboe lesson. I was very unimpressed as most of time consisted of blowing odd notes. the teacher in question was qualified to degree standard and had lots of experience.

When the youngest wanted to take G1 Sax I asked a student nextdoor to hear her play. We didn't know him at all so it was a complete gamble. In the space of 5 mins he had made better judgements than the more experienced teacher despite never having taught before. That's 18 months ago now and my youngest has G5 and eldest G4.

He doesn't have all the answers yet but he will in a couple of more years and he's decided to make teaching his career now he has his degree.

I agree here totally. My first viola teacher was a professional violinist (who also played viola from time to time) with a PGCert in performance and good enough to be the soloist in a concerto. However, my current teacher plays in a charity orchestra and wouldn't dream of going out front, but she is a great teacher and immediately spotted and helped me eliminate all the bad habits etc that my first teacher, the pro, left me with and never said a word about!

Also, I used to teach Chinese to beginners which isn't common for a Brit. Most Chinese teachers are Chinese and I used to feel inadequate. However, I was able to communicate well what the students needed to know as well as sharing tips on how I managed to accomplish what they wanted to do and talk in their terms (including the fluent English many Chinese people lack - their language is much simpler than ours!!), so I realised that, at that level, I was good for them.

All the best with the teaching, you sound great at it!

Isn't that equally true for adults? No teacher should be letting a pupil develop bad habits, whatever the pupil's age.

Of course I wouldn't let an adult play 'any-old-how' just because they are adults. I was referring to physical actions/posture required for playing the piano - and in my mind I was thinking that children are more vulnerable to damage at a very young age when their tendons, muscles etc are still forming. Adult beginners are often physically more limited when attempting something new and I find I have to compromise sometimes and accept those limitations so that they can still enjoy playing. If they are adult returners it can be much harder to correct problems they might have had as children.

So basically I meant that those first lessons as youngsters are vitally important as it sets them up for life.

Teaching is a massive responsibility and should never be undertaken lightly just to add a few pennies to the piggy bank. Any teacher must have a great love of his subject and be able to impart that love to his pupils. It is easy to measure some results of teaching by the achievements of the students (he dreaded grade system!) but some things may not be measured in this way and for me they are the most important ones. When you start to teach a beginner you are helping him to make the first steps along what should be one of the most exciting journeys of his life. Find ways to make that journey thrilling and fun so that the pupil really gets to love playing and making music too and the rest will usually follow. So apart from having a great passion for your subject and your instrument(s) you must also have the knowledge to impart correct techniques too, and to be able to pick up on potential problems as they arise and be able to correct them. Obviously you need a good and solid technique yourself and you should be able to help with aural work, theory etc too. If you haven’t really thought about these things do so before you agree to take on any pupils. Bad teaching methods have turned many a potential player against music and once the love is gone it does not always return. If some of us are a little less than encouraging please understand why.

I agree that it can be all too easy to use exam results as a measure of success (guilty! ) - I suppose in a way if they are consistently good then the teacher is going to be okay. However, I have to admit that I feel I am now nearer to the kind of teacher I aspire to be than I was 20 years ago, when I used to put pupils in for a lot more exams than I do now. These days I am enjoying the teaching process so much more, helped by the fact I have a comfortable environment at home (not visiting anymore) and I have more confidence to resist exam pressure. I'm just enjoying teaching so much at the moment and I like to pass on that enthusiasm to others.

I think it is worth noting that you are both very experienced teachers and those of us who have not been teaching so long/are just starting out are bound to make some mistakes along the way. I don't think you can learn to teach without doing it and while you can obviously be a prepared as possible (being good at your instrument, looking at available rep etc) you can't know what works and what doesn't until you try it.

I think there can be an element of younger teachers being made to feel a bit bad for mistakes that most people go through in their career. Hopefully in 20 years we will have learned from our mistakes and won't replicate them, but it is not possible for someone to arrive at their first lesson as a fully formed, perfect teacher. I think there will always be an element of 'taking the plunge'.

There is an extent to which we have to learn on the job...for me that learning is on-going after 8 years, I hope it still is after 40!

Absolutely agree! However, I think you might have missed my Post 4 pianodub, where I am supporting new teachers starting out. At least that was the intention

You are right of course, but it is possible to learn about different teaching methods and many teachers will have studied teaching techniques in college and will have given supervised lessons with useful feedback afterwards and even a tutor on hand to step in with suggestions at times. This is where full time music training wins hands down over the "I play, therefore I can teach" idea. Some can and some have not a clue. These are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to teach but they do, and leave a stream of disillusioned and upset students in their wake.

Thanks for all the comments. They have really helped. I am taking a part time job toconcentrate on this and intend to spend a few months looking into teaching, collecting resources and generally preparing myself. I think I panicked a bit yesterday. Think I will follow my interest and go for it.

It is a little unfair to take a quote out of context sometimes David so I will add what I wrote here, in full if I may:

"You are right of course, but it is possible to learn about different teaching methods and many teachers will have studied teaching techniques in college and will have given supervised lessons with useful feedback afterwards and even a tutor on hand to step in with suggestions at times. This is where full time music training wins hands down over the "I play, therefore I can teach" idea. Some can and some have not a clue. These are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to teach but they do, and leave a stream of disillusioned and upset students in their wake."

There are still pupils who have the misfortune of having lessons of very poor quality from someone who plays a little, or who used to play a bit, or lessons on an instrument on which the tutor is self taught, or on an instrument that the teacher does not even play. Music teaching is a skill that can be learned and teaching is an art that some people have more of a natural feeling for than others. The ones that concern me are the ones who don't know what they are talking about, teach poor techniques, don't know how to recognise or correct bad habits, know little of suitable repertoire outside of the exam books, can't help with theory or aural work, etc etc etc. Obviously these things can be worked out by a new teacher if he or she has the mind to but many don't simply because they don't know to. That is where a mentor comes in. At Music College one has access to several mentors and they can be jolly useful. It does not mean that one's tutor cannot do just as good a job but teaching without any kind of help or supervision can be dangerous, and I don't choose that word lightly.

I think you can also get too "old" to teach, although it has nothing to do with age.

My daughter's piano teacher this year clearly no longer enjoys teaching beginners - she complains regularly about having to always repeat the same things and having to listen to the same pieces all evening with every pupil making the same mistakes.

I have inherited a few pupils from teachers like these, some elderly, some quite close in age to me! I think teaching beginners or young children (by which I mean under the age of 9 or 10) requires a particular personality/mindset. The students I have inherited have usually brightened up considerably over time, given the right praise/materials.

Petrat, I agree that help is useful when you start out. I have a music degree and masters, but had no teacher training through these. Instead I was working as a receptionist at a music school and so had many young enthusiastic teachers to hand to ask questions of. It was very useful, but probably an unusual situation. I find now reading excellent books about teaching, using this forum as a resource and discussing with colleagues/friends are great ways to improve upon and question my teaching. Unfortunately the AB teachers courses are not available in Ireland and I find it difficult to find their equivalents here. Diplomas and degrees are available,but I think 7 years in college is about all I can take!

I also think this forum is a difficult place for people to judge other teachers (a point David often makes) as we often only post about things we are concerned about or frustrated with, rather that celebrating our success. This could lead to people getting the wrong impression of our teaching practices.

Sorry all a bit waffly...just having my coffee after lunch and feeling a bit ponderous!

I think that I was very lucky to have teaching methods etc included as a part of my course in Music College. I wish that the universities would do the same. Off for my lunch now.

Me too. Not the lunch bit - I had that a while ago

Well guys, getting on for thirty years ago when my only qualifications were a Grade 8 piano and Music O-level I was quite certain that I was competent to teach piano.

Many years later I play very much better, in fact I am just a better musician all round. I have gained a PGCE (specialist subject music), spent a few years in the classroom, have had the privilege of four years study with a concert pianist of genius, and for the last year have been studying with another recitalist, perhaps not so brilliant an executant, but an exceptional musician and wholly dedicated to her students. I have probably read over 30 books about piano technique and piano teaching - Waterman, Last, Hofmann, Leimer, Geiseking, Leschetitsky, Rubinstein, Thiberge, Cortot, Sandor, Fleischmann, Bacon, Rosen, Lhevinne, Wolff, Neuhauss, Harold Taylor, Kendall Taylor, Meffin, and many more ... and of course I now know vastly more of the piano repertoire ...

... Am I fit to teach piano now? I am not too sure any more!

I'm the last one to act as a salesman for AB services, but praise where praise is due ... my experience of the part-time CT course was very positive, and made me a better teacher. There were two activities in particular that were extremely helpful: the self-videoing of some specific lessons, followed by peer review; and the series of four lesson observations by my mentor. I know it's not cheap, but it IS accessible to any teacher. The only downside is that it is not recognised as a teaching qualification as such. But for those that are prepared to accept that they can still learn about how to help learners learn ("become a better teacher", if that's how you want to put it), it's a very worthwhile investment.

Yes, some people may be natural communicators and effective teachers without training and you may be one of them. However, I don't think you can argue as a general principle that just because you didn't have the means to do a music degree it is therefore dispensible. I don't have the means to stop working and read a law degree: that doesn't give me the right to set up as a solicitor regardless - qualifications are there for a reason.

It is true that it is not required to have any specific qualifications in order to teach a musical instrument (and this subject has probably been discussed at great length in many other threads). But if one's dentist were to reveal that they hadn't had the means to train in dentistry, would you really say "Oh well, that's okay, you never had the opportunity to study. But you've assured me that you have a natural dental ability; why don't you just whip out my teeth anyway."?!

And that's not such a far-fetched comparison as it may sound; a singing teacher could do a lot of damage to a child's voice if they hadn't had appropriate training and didn't know what they were doing (and I've chosen singing because of the related physiology, not because it's one of the things you teach).

I am an aspiring teacher and I'd like say say how helpful all of these comments are.

I've been playing guitar for 13 years (untrained) and I'm in the process of studying for grade 6/7 classical.

I always assumed that a good teacher was a qualified teacher although cleary there appears to be more to it than that.

I would agree that learning how to teach effectively is not just based on how well you play or how many grades you've taken.

Sorry to digress from the topic but could anybody tell me if there are any seminars or courses which are recommended to get under ones belt that don't involve a Diploma?

Amazing! A talking piano!?!

MY piano tells me all its notes are out of tune really and I ought to go and play my lovely violin instead.

I tried the violin once - but all the notes were out of tune .

The background I got from a full music degree course was invaluable, and of course I've now consoldated that with a performance diploma, but what makes me a good teacher is how I am able to work out what my pupils need and deliver.

There is a lot of planning requires, plus the ability to think on your feet. You need to know how people learn and how people think. You need excellent interpersonal skills. You are running your own business, so there is all the admin, accounting, advertising and PR side of things. You need to consider how you get an appropriate level of insurance: whether you decide to join the musicians union or a professional body like the ISM or EPTA. Then as you are self employed you have all the Tax implications of that. My business Joanna Debenham BA has a number assigned to it at Companies House where I am registered as a Sole Trader. So my name not only has an NI number it also has a number at Companies House! Then there is CPD

All this and I haven't got anyone to sing or play a note! It is a responsible job. There are 16 year olds who are well able to discharge this responsibility, particularly if their parents help with the admin. It is a job I love, and when people say they want to do it, aonce I've told them what it really involves and they still are eager, then I say bring it on.

I knew nothing of it until I googled myself and found the number!