Hello,

I haven't posted here before. I'm going to be taking my DipABRSM exam on piano this summer. My programme is thus so far:

Beethoven Sonata in F Minor Op.2
Chopin Berceuse in Db Major
Debussy First Arabesque (used it in my grade 8 exam and I play it well, so might as well use it as my own choice)
Copland Cat and Mouse

I believe I need one more very short piece. I bought Bartok's Mikrokosmos, and it wouldn't be so bad if I had to learn just one Dance in Bulgarian Rhythm, but learning two is too time consuming at the moment as I have A Level exams for the next three weeks.

Can anyone suggest a short piece from the syllabus that would coincide with my current programme?

I'd appreciate any help!

I personally would not reuse material I've used for a previous exam, so I would scrap the Debussy.

Why don't you play La Cathedral engloutie instead if you want to play some Debussy?

You do not have to play an own choice piece.

Your programme lacks anything Baroque. There are plenty of Scarlatti sonatas on the syllabus to choose from that would make up the remaining time requirements and balance this programme.


Alternatively, look at the pieces by Bach.

The dipABRSM is large step from Grade 8. I play the Arabesque. Technically, I felt it one of the easist pieces on that particular list and I consider my self anything but a DipABRSM level Pianist.

I really think the examiners will be looking for something more advanced at this level.

Yes I agree with Jod, a Scarlatti sonata would do the trick.

I'd say you definitely need a Baroque piece of some sort for a balanced programme.

Play Scarlatti sonata as your "own choice".

joueur,

I agree with the other posts, Scarlatti would be a good choice - Baroque and quite short.

Please bear in mind though that you have to choose a pair of Scarlatti sonatas at DipABRSM; the syllabus list states quite a wide choice though.

Best of luck

denmark

I had this discussion with Mad Tom a while ago: If you are selecting from the list you have to pick a pair, so that sort of suggests that two is what is expected. On the other hand, if you are offering it as your own choice why should you have to pick two? Then again, why pick as your own choice something on the list? It's asking for trouble, reallly!

Thanks for your responses.

I have the first volume of Scarlatti Sonatas (I don't know how they've got here, as I definitely didn’t buy them!) I think I'll give the A major ones that are listed in the syllabus a go.

Forgive me for being rather presumptuous, but they don't seem that difficult: have I missed the point? What will the biggest challenge be in learning and performing these?

I guess they are not too difficult to learn to play the notes.

To play the piece as it is meant to be played is quite a different challenge and one that would take paragraphs and paragraphs here to even start to outline what you are trying to achieve.

Listen to Mikhail Pletnev's CD of Domenico Scarlatti to start to understand where I'm coming from - I personally think that yes, you have missed the 'point'

It's June now and you say you are taking your diploma 'this summer' - what country are you in? Surely if it's the UK it is your summer now? I'm slightly surprised you are saying you will be starting to learn a Scarlatti sonata now to reach diploma standard for a summer exam

Anyhow - Good luck with your diploma preparation - I've just taken mine and played Scarlatti's Sonata in D major K29 as part of my programme.

Missed the point? Yes I think so.

Take a look at Martha Argerich playing K141/L422

or Michaelengeli playing K27/L449

When you can play them like that, then you can say they are easy!

I think a Scarlatti Sonata that is not on the list makes a good "own choice". Either of those above would fit the bill. But maybe not for you. Reading between the lines, you are looking for something quick and easy to learn. Scarlatti is not a soft option. His pieces look simple but it takes a lot of work to get them sounding good. Also you have to live with the sonatas for a while before they are ready for performance - and if you don't put that time and effort in they can sound awful. It turns out to be quicker and easier to learn a Bach Prelude and Fugue!!

For a quick study, that can be made to sound fantastic in record time you could try something like one of Granados' Spanish Dances - the famous No 5 is very easy - or perhaps more likely to impress the examiner, would be one of the easier pieces from Albeniz's First Spanish Suite

But of course anything that you can get to performance level in a couple of weeks is not going to impress the examiner with its technical difficulty. [Added 10/06/2008 - on the other hand I have read that both Martha Argerich and John Ogdon learned Tchaikovsky's famous concerto in just 2 weeks - that would impress and examiner - so maybe I'm wrong about this!!]

Well, there seems to be some disagreeing here - some say a Scarlatti Sonata is a good idea, others seem to feel it would not to the piece or composer justice if I learnt it in 5 weeks for my exam and seem to be a bit insulted at my proposition.

It's interesting what you say, Mad Tom, that a Bach prelude and fugue would be easier than a Scarlatti Sonata.

So, I'm a bit confused.

If I kept my programme how it initially was:

Beethoven Sonata in F Minor Op.2
Chopin Berceuse in Db Major
Debussy First Arabesque
Copland Cat and Mouse

...and maybe played the Beethoven with repeats, what would you think? The reason I asked for suggestions of 'short pieces' is because of the time limit aspect more than the 'I can't be bothered to learn anything lengthy' aspect.

If I learnt two Bartok Dances in Bulgarian Rhythm, do you think this would bode well with my programme or is it a necessity to have something from a Baroque period to get this 'balanced' programme? I realise there is already a 20th Century work there, and that both Bartok and Copland were Nationalist composers, Scherzo Humoristique is a very early work of his and doesn't fit into Nationalism. And would it be an insult to Bartok if I learnt two of his dances in 5 weeks?!

The syllabus reads '...a generalist programme that offers a wide-ranging yet coherent mixture of periods, mood and tempo'. So, I don't know...

Thanks for your responses so far, by the way.

Id still be ending towards Scarlatti, a sits a different period. Many of them are 2 mins long, some even less.

I agree with others comments about a balanced programme. I would definitely consider something baroque, some of the Scarlatti is very playable at a glance, but you would have to expect the examiner to know this too and know that just getting from beginning to end would not be sufficient. Mad Tom makes a good point about the Bach, or maybe even one of the Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues (It's not Baroque but would provide a decent contrast to the other pieces).

Love the Copland a fine choice!

Just to make it clear, here is my opinion (based on learning half a dozen of each at post-Diploma standard) stated more clearly:

Scarlatti Sonata:
You can learn the notes pretty quickly for a lot of them, but it can take forever to get them to sound really good.

Bach Prelude and Fugue:
It can take seemingly ages to learn the notes and play them up to speed. But once you reach that point they already sound impressive.

I also think your proposed programme fulfils all the requirements of the syllabus, even without a baroque piece - the only question is whether it fills the required time.

What do you think about doing two Bartok Dances in Bulgarian Rhythm? Will this unbalance the programme?

Have you done your timings?

35 mins +/- 10% means that you will need 31' 30" to 38' 30" That is a full 7 mins leeway.

Remember you need to time from when the examiner says " thank you are you ready to start" so the timing must include the pauses between movements and a slightly longer pause to 'collect yourself' between pieces.

What is your current programme timing with all that taken into account? You may find that you are OK. Remember the more pieces you have the less depth you can achieve for each one in your programme notes. With 4 pieces you are about 300 a piece - I found it hard to write anything meaningful under around 200 - 220 words.

out with the stop watch ...

Really - your opinion is at least as good as mine. Personally I don't like the Bulgarian Dances much. The only Bartok composition I really like is the six Roumanian dances - and they are a bit too easy to present for a diploma exam - or rather they would have to be scintillatingly well played.

Cheers
Tom



p.s. I also have to take the DipABRSM soon because an ALCM is not an acceptable pre-requisite for the LRSM. But I keep getting side-tracked preparing for concerts, accompanying and now ... preparing for competitions, so the DipABRSM won't happen until early next year. Maybe we can compare notes. This is my proposed programme:

Scarlatti: 2 Sonatas in A K208 and K209
Beethoven: Sonata No 8 in Cm Op 13 (Pathetique)
Chopin: Berceuse Op. 57
Albeniz: Suite Espagnole Op. 47: Seville
Scriabin: Preludes Op. 11 Nos 11 and 21

The Albeniz is my own choice. Everything else is off the syllabus. I still have to check out the timings to see that it all falls
comfortably into 35m +/- 10%. The options to miss out the repeat in the Beethoven, or ditch the Chopin, Albeniz, or Scriabin make it easily adjustable.

Maybe I'll fail, and all the advice I've been dishing out for the last six months will be seen as worthless!

Nice programme Tom, but working from my CD timings (I have them all) its too long.!

Rats! What would you do to bring it down to 38:30 or less? Would dropping Chopin's Berceuse bring it back in range? Maybe I could just play faster

Im over in my Leeds office now, so cant check my CD timings again till Im back home.
From my itunes file for iPod, Pathetique is 18 mins with repeats, the two Scriabins are about 3.5 min together, and probably your Scarlattis about 5 mins together. But isn't the Berceuse about 8 or 9 mins at least, then theres the Albeniz, maybe 5 mins.
It might work if you cut repeats.

I may not have a piano diploma, but I do have an LRSM in Singing and music degree. I also teach, and am now at a level where I am happy to prepare people for their singing DipABRSM.

My gut says drop that Debussy NOW. If you really have to play Debussy play La Cathedral Engoutie it is on the syllabus, then add a pair of Scarlatti Sonatas.

Have you considered playing Granada from Albeniz Suite Espagnole op 47. It is a real tour de force for the left hand, and would bring out the type of playing that made you excell at the Arabesque, plus it is not too long for an own choice piece and is technically difficult enough.

Both Mad Tom and f#minor are coming up with good ideas.

Alas, I feel you really have not attended to the small print of the syllabus. It is so easy to do this and vital you do not.

No, the Berceuse is roughly 5 minutes. I have a recording of it in which it's 4:40 minutes but it's played just a shade too fast for my liking.

I wouldn't rely too heavily on CD recordings.

Mad Tom, I like your programme. I agree with you that if you were to drop something, it would be the Berceuse. If you got rid of it, your programme wouldn't be lacking in technically challenging pieces so from that perspective you'd be fine. I'm not expert though as you can tell from my own programme!



In what way? Do you mean because I currently have the Arabesque in my programme and don't have a Baroque piece?

Unfortunately, The Engulfed Cathedral has chords in the left hand that are too big for my hand span - nice suggestion though. I suppose 'Les sons et les parfumes...' would be an option.

musicmanNZ - I shall time my programme so I know exactly this evening!

Thanks

Another one that is harder than it looks! Once again - not too hard too hit the notes. Very demanding to make it sound like anything other than a jumble of pretty, but un-related sounds.

Tough business this program construction! At least - I found it tough. I'd have happily played any of the Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven listed - but two classical sonatas would hardly be a balanced program. Apart from that the board somehow managed to pick my least favourite works of lots of composers - or the timings didn't add up. Pity you can't pick from the LRSM list for the DipABRSM.

There is always the option of a Rachmaninov prelude. Op 32 No 5 is hackneyed but nice. The ony technical difficulty is the 5 v 4 polyrhthm near the end. I started to learn it, then decided I'd rather play some Scriabin. Or ... Szymanowski Etude Op 4 No 3 anyone? It is a beautiful piece - well it is his most famous but I have not tried playing it so I have no idea how difficult it might be.

Drop that Arabesque and repace it with Albeniz Granada, then play two Scarlatti Sonatas. Currently your programme lacks anything pre Beethoven, its a bit 19th and 20th Century heavy.

My LRSM programme, which can be more specialised contained music from the 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th Century it was also poetically linked.

It's only now I plan my FRSM I can concentrate on a programme of late 19th and early 20th century French and Spanish song. DipABRSM needs a much broader footing.

I've just timed my programme and it came in at 27:03 minutes. I'd add another 30 secs for stops and so forth.

Your programme is too short.

It contains nothing pre Beethoven

You include an own choice piece that was one of the easiest Grade 8 pieces in ages.

It is time to balance it up.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think your current programme is going to gain you your diploma.

So you have small hands.

Ditch the Debussy and include one of the Scarlatti pairings, and listen to several of the great recordings of them to find a way to get them to really sparkle.

It is amazing how many great recordings find their way onto You Tube.

Keep the Copland, then balance it with the other Debussy prelude or part of the Albeniz Suite Espagnole.

Check your timings after you add the Scarlatti. Then add the Debussy or Albeniz then check your timings again. My hands are titchy and I get around Granada with minimal difficulty.

Remember the examiners are looking for a combination of musical brilliance as well as technical excellence, and that this isn't a Licentiate or a Fellowship exam either.

The written assignment is only short. This was my bug bear with LRSM I had far too much material, and the words total is longer for that. In fact my bug bear for FRSM is the total is only 4500 words on a topic where a 10 000 word dissertation would quite frankly be easier.

Good luck.

joueur - that isn't timing your programme - just vaguely 'adding in xx for stops'

Timing it is starting at the beginning and playing everything through to the end, including the repeats if you are doing them and having the pauses and 'time to collect yourself'. When I did this I was quite surprised how it differed from the 'individual piece timings + a bit approach'

That is the only way to actually time it - exactly as it will be timed if you take your diploma this summer.

How are you going with your programme note preparation?? That took me ages as I had to fit it around school, music etc