Like a many adult learners I've found it really hard to find other people to play with. I finally plucked up courage and joined a short chamber music course run on termly basis by the local conservatoire.

I'm just above a grade 4 which is the minimum requirement for this group, and everyone was more advanced than me. My sight reading and playing were good enough, but not having played with others before, I really struggled with keeping the timing right and got hopelessly lost a lot. It didn't help that I didn't know the piece, we were playing one to a part and there aren't any recordings of it (after lots of internet research) to be had for love or money, so it was definately in at the deep end!

The last session we had I didn't play as I'd got a bad chest infection, but I did go to listen. It's evident that the group is working much better together without me playing.

They are discussing continuing next term and also teaming up in the summer break. I'm included in the invite, but its obvious I'm holding the group back and they will get a lot more out of playing together without me. It's taken me months of internet research to find this option and if I drop out I'll be back in a catch 22 situation where to join a group successfully, my group playing has to improve, but I can't improve that without playing with others.

What should I do?

No No No. Don't give up. Go along. If they haven't given you express cause to pack it in, stick at it. What you'll learn will be invaluable, and believe it or not they'll be learning from you too. Ensemble playing is soooooo tricky. even when everyone is at the same standard. It isn't only about getting the notes on the page right.
Timing is particularly difficult. One player's 4/4 is never the same as another's. It's only after aeons of playing together that everyone tends to rub along 'sympatico'. (And even then it can be fraught!)


Keep a sense of humour about you, and don't be afraid to admit when things are beyond you, and I bet you'll get on fine. There may come a time when YOU decide you need to find pastures new. But in the meantime, (unless you feel miserable about it all), this is your 'in'. which will stand you in good stead for when you find others you want to play with.


Enjoy.

Iona

Here here! Totally agree, don't give up - playing in ensembles is tough but there is only one way to get better... You have as much right as anyone else to be there - this is a course, no? ie you are there to learn!

Virtually anyone listening to others play thinks their own playing inferior. This is bcause instead of evaluating things properly, you listen selectively to the bits where you know you are poorest, and miss the bits you do well but others don't.

I agree with the other posters that you should not give up. Of course it's disheartening to feel you are at the low end of the group grade-wise, but that can act as a spur to improvement. One thing's for sure - if you throw in the towel it will not improve your chamber group playing at all!

All the others in the group were once at your stage, and I'm sure they will help you enormously - if you let them! If you pull out now, they won't have the chance to.

Yes, do keep with it if you can.

I've also been on courses where everyone else was way ahead of me (though not ensemble playing so not quite so scary) and wondered why some of them were there as they were already quite highly skilled in what the course was meant to be teaching. It seems as though a lot of people like to play on the safe side and sign up for courses and events which are advertised with a minimum standard a couple of grades belwo what they actually are. It can make things a little intimidating for those who, like you, enrol on something as soon as they are at the suggested level.

As sbhoa says, it sounds as if you're the only one who isn't in the wrong course. Is the same course running next term? If so, you should certainly join it again. Presumably there is a tutor? Does s/he have any doubts about your staying on the course?

But, from what you've said, it sounds as if what was originally a tutored course may have turned into an untutored spin-off group. In that case it's slightly different, because you don't have a right to be in the group, and the fact that it was originally supposed to be for people at your level might be less relevant. But the others invited you. Why would they do that if they'd rather you dropped out?

I agree with the others - do not give up. I started a music group 3 years ago and initially we all thought that the others were better players, they weren't, just different. We have now developed, by helping each other, to the extent that we have all noticably improved both our playing and our sight reading and get real pleasure from our fortnightly meetings. So, please don't give up, ensemble playing is one of the most satisfying ways of making music for someone of modest ability.

It's evident that the group is working much better together without me playing.

It is quite likely the others in the group wouldn't agree with this! I think you may be being a bit hard on yourself, and I agree with the others who have said you shouldn't give up.

initially we all thought that the others were better players, they weren't, just different.

good point, nicely made if I may say so. Different players / singers (I'm in a choir) bring varying skills to any group. You probably have some aspect or skill that you are unaware of which the others value or find helpful.

thank you all very much for your kind words of encouragement, I'll be brave and carry on. I think I feel particularly bad about it as I'm the second oldest in the group !!

Don't give up! If you feel bad about it, you can talk to the conductor, who might be able to sort something - but I reckon they'd reassure you that you're doing much better than you think!
Do you know anyone who'd go along with you to play as well? Sometimes it's nice to know someone there really well and to know their standard...
Practise as much as you can, that sort of thing...



And anyway, it always sounds different when you're playing or listening...

I've just looked on your Profile to see if you mentioned whereabouts you are but you didn't. I don't think you've mentioned what instrument you play either. I run an orchestra for adult learners (term time only) in Berkshire. There's no minimum standard - people are welcome as soon as they are brave enough to have a go.

Rhythm reading and being able to hear and relate to what other people are playing are both very hard, much more difficult than playing the right notes! Do you have a teacher? If so, see if they will work with you on some duets. If not, see if you can find someone on your course who seems to be at about the same standard as you are and if possible arrange to get together with them, also to play duets. I'm pretty sure you will be able to find elementary duets for pretty well any combination of instruments.

Music is a social activity that with luck you will be able to enjoy for the rest of your life, so it's well worth whatever effort you put into it. I've played chamber music with several people who were over 90!

Go for it!

Please dont give up and stick with it. Here is my story:

I picked up the violin in January 2008, in march, i suddenly have the desire to play in an orchestra, and it took me a LONG time to find an orchestra that will take me. I sat thru the first rehearsal not being able to follow the music, have no idea what "start from pick up to bar 72" mean. Can't count correctly either, I play 2nd violin and I used to sing soprano in choir and will die if I have to sing the harmony because it's THAT much harder. Without being the melody, you really have to listen to others and COUNT. They were playing REALLY fast, sight thru the entire Haydn Symphony and I thought I was gonna die.

I posted on another violin board they encouraged me to continue! Fast forward to today. I performed at 2 concerts with that ensemble! Nope, i cannot play all the parts. For the fast runs, I only play the downbeat, if i get lost, I try to count and figure out where they are and get back in when I can.

The bottom line is I didn't give up and I survived!!