Just done my second public performance on the piano at an adult learners concert at the conservatoire where I have lessons. I was really pleased with my first performance, but a bit disappointed by today's.

There were loads more people than I expected - it was packed to the rafters. I was one of four pianists and couldn't help but compare! Well, the nerves just got to me and I rushed through my pieces and made a few slips as a result. Thinking about it objectively, it wasn't a dire performance, by any stretch of the imagination. But I just left with that sinking feeling that I could have played better. Much better.

I know I am being hard on myself (I did six years piano as a child and never never played in public once.) so that fact I am getting up there and giving it a go, I know, is a good thing. I have been having lessons for 9 months.

I am telling myself that (as has happened with my singing) that each performance I do will give me more confidence and experience and that, little by little, I'll get there...even if things don't always run smoothly.

But of course that self doubt which plagues adult learners (well at least the ones I know) is creeping in. Will I ever be able to give a calm, confident performance? Will I ever feel as if I am in control of the keyboard (not the other way round)? Will the hours of practice ever pay off? Will I ever be able to achieve my goals...

Just looking for some experiences/words of wisdom...I was nervous performer as a child, too.

Particularly interested to hear what teachers think. Is is possible to 'grow out of'/learn to manage performance nerves? Is a nervous performer always a nervous performer???

It is possible to improve a lot - I know, because I've done it. We have very recently had a discussion about this on the teachers' forum, perhaps you'd like to have a look - I think it's on the 3rd page now.

Although I can't say I have "grown out" of my nerves my teacher claims that they are the result of never having been taught to perform as a child. He maintains that learning to perform is as much a part of learning an instrument as learning to read music and learning to play the different notes.

Yes I think you may have a point. Could David (on the other thread) unwittingly have hit on the answer when he casually mentioned how many times a week/month he has to 'perform.'? As I said in the OP, I did 6 years of piano lessons as a teenager without my teacher ever suggesting I performed a piece or even providing that opportunity through a festival or concert. The way I see it, is that surely it's a skill you have to practise ( at least I hope so!).

My current teacher sussed me out straight away as someone who wants to perform and has encouraged me to perform from the outset. She was there today, but not last time (possibly partly why I got so nervous!) so we can debrief at my next lesson and maybe I can ask her for some help on the performance side.

I think you are right Keri, that you can't expect to be noteperfect. What I think I'd like to do is feel calm and confident enough to minimise mistakes (caused by nerves) and recover from those that do happen.

Some years ago, just after starting singing lessons, my teacher entered me for a local festival. I got SO nervous I totally bombed out. Afterwards, I seriously considered giving up. I remember my mum saying to me afterwards 'Well if it makes you so upset, I don't see why you don't stop doing concerts/festivals. Is it really worth it?' I just wanted to scream - she SO didn't get the point.

I nursed my bruised ego for a while, picked myself up, entered another festival a few months later and won all the classes. My theory is that that 'worst thing that could happen' had happened i.e. I was rubbish...and nothing terrible had happened, the world was still turning etc etc. so I went in with a completely different attitude. These days I can sing in front of anyone without worrying too much, even though I know I'm not a brilliant singer. I am hoping something similar might happen with piano, over time. Here's hoping!

Thanks Bev. I read the post with interest.

Surely everyone gets nervous to an extent? It can help, in a way - makes you more focused...

Some of us become more nervous over time, others less; I've seen several posts in the past in which people said that as kids they could perform because they were less self-conscious, but that they developed a degree of self-consciousness and self-criticism on heading into their teens; others started out more anxious and have gradually become less so. It is certainly possible for this to get better: it did for me, though I'm not really 100% sure how or why it happened. I tend to attribute it to a wonderful and supportive teacher, and to getting a few chances to perform in a relatively un-hostile environment - but from having been someone who would never stand up to play to family, even, I've now managed to brave exams and a competition festival, all in middle age, and have lived to tell the tale. There are even three certificates and a medal to prove it .

That's comforting to hear. I certainly felt I learned a lot from yesterday's performance and it hasn't put me off trying again.

I used to be VERY nervous as a child but now I'm not. Well, I'm healthily nervous now and not that frozen, terror-struck, palm-sweating, boot shaking horror I used to suffer from.

I really enjoy playing now and am told that nobody really notices the wee slips I make.

I'm sure there are many many reasons behind performance nerves but I think mine came from the situation where my childhood 'performances' were career-driven while now I just play for fun (as a hobby. )

I used to enter festival competitions wen I was younger, never won, and felt really disappointed, because I psyched myself up to it and got realy nervous (the dreaded sweaty palm syndrome...)

Last Saturday a friend of mine asked me to play a duet with her in a harp festival (no, I don't play the harp, but still...) and I found I didn't mind playing at all - probably because I wasn't fussed about the result. Until I realised there were cash prizes, of course


Anyway - I love playing folky stuff to an audience or playing as background music with a string quartet - but I much prefer it when they're not ALL staring at you playing....

I promised to report back on the books I was consulting to help with this problem so here goes:

"The Inner Game of Music" Barry Green

I was really disappointed by this - especially after the brilliance and insight of the very first "Inner Game" book ("The Inner Game of Tennis") It is hard to read, and lacking in really good focussed advice. For me it waffled all around the subject without ever really really understanding my problems. Not much help to me at all, and not even an enjoyable read. But look for yourself. You might connect with it.


"Mastering the Art of Performance" Stewart Gordon

First impressions are that this is the real thing. Almost everything he had to say is relevant to my problems and difficulties. Much of it is backed up by good research (and not just a few random examples and anecdotes). There is advice on exercise, diet, methods of practice, specific preparation for performance, what to do if things go wrong during performance, assessing your ability, potential, and reasons for wanting to perform , and many more

It is not a cheap book, but I got my copy for £3.50 second-hand on Amazon - and it looks like the original buyer never read it.

The real test of whether it is any good is whether my performances will improve. The dry mouth and racing heart I can cope with. Coping with the extra time that seems to be available is harder. It should be an advantage that the mind is going faster, so everything seems slower - but it is not! Also I experience actual loss of physical manual dexterity under stress (to put that more simply - my hands seize up! - fortunately only slightly), I lose confidence in my memory, fail to listen fully to the sound I am creating, and all sorts of unanswered questions about interpretation and technique come to mind.

I am going to be putting many of Gordon's ideas and recommendations into practice, so another report will follow after a decent length of time for a fair trial.

I'm glad I'm not alone. I gave up after the first few pages. It was a typical self-help book - one idea spun out to 200 pages with not-very-interesting anecdotes all telling the same story in slightly different ways. I felt the same about "Soprano in her Head" which has also been raved about on these forums.

Thanks for suggesting the other book - will check it out.

I agree about this book. I've been strugglin with it for some time hoping it will ultimately have the answer to all my problems, but I can give up now I know it doesn't. Thanks

It may be true that extensive practice at performing when young could take the fear out of it.

I didn't have that many opportunities to perform solos as a child, just these:

My teacher used to organise yearly Christmas concerts for all her pupils. There were only about five of us so they weren't intimidating occasions; sometimes I'd perform a duet with another pupil - I seem to remember us playing the Bach Double on one occasion with my mother on piano.

I also remember playing solos at school occasions, so perhaps the concerts at my teacher's had already given me some confidence.

Then, however, I entered the local music festival in the under-12s section and suffered a terrible stage-fright attack, probably something to do with the row of judges staring at me and the whole intimidating nature of the thing. It took me a long, long time to get over the stage-fright caused by that experience; even winning my section didn't help.

I finally overcame the nerves years later with a combination of busking, playing in cafes and restaurants, then jazz festivals and then finally suffering a terrible finger injury that made me realise how lucky I was to be able to perform again or at all - and the nerves finally disappeared. I began to see how it was a privilege not an ordeal and now pretty much long to perform wherever possible.

When you think about the long history of music-making through the centuries, putting a child on a huge stage to perform a solo in front of an unsmiling, judging audience isn't really conducive to a love of performing. Music is meant to be celebratory, not an occasion to be scrutinised and judged; think about tribal children drumming along with their parents; gypsy children playing together in large groups along with family members. In the West we've created a culture where music isn't just performed for ritual reasons or for pure enjoyment but so we can assess and compare performers and create winners and losers.

No wonder Western musicians become nervous on stage!

Aaaargh, another recital tomorrow afternoon (shared with two other pianists). It is only Saturday morning and I am already starting to feel apprehensive. As usual I'm on last, so all the more time to worry.

The program

Gibbons A Grounde (Musica Brittanica XX.27)
Bach Two part invention No 13 in A
Bach Prelude and Fugue in E. Book 1 No 9
Scarlatti Sonata in Fm K466
Mozart Sonata in D K576
Chopin Etude Op 10 No 7 "Toccata"
Lennon-McCartney Because/You Never Give Me Your Money

After that we are going to do a couple of 6-hands on one piano pieces

Breathing deeply - and off to the practice rooms

Good luck, Tom! I'm sure you'll enjoy it once you begin to play - it's thinking about it beforehand that's scary. Lots of music there, so some of it's bound to go well. Have a great time!

I've often thought that it would be far less intimidating for the performer(s) and audience, if we could go back to the days of Beethoven et al. Concert halls were not places where the platform was lit up while the audience sat in comparative darkness. Halls then were lit evenly throughout, the audience sat and enjoyed the music while chatting with their friends. Leaving your table or seat to go and get some food or a drink was also part of the evening, people just wandered in and out at their leisure during the performance. This atmosphere would make it rather like a modern jazz club, relaxed and informal, but everyone there for one primary reason, the music, often with applause between movements.

You don't have to sit in total silence to enjoy the ambience of a performance, but by modern standards it is deemed ignorant for people to sit and talk, even quietly, during a performance of classical music. The violinist Viotti, would be astounded by the bright platform lights and the silence of the 21st century concert hall.

If we could re-introduce those relaxed informal settings from time to time, perhaps more of the younger generation would come along and listen to classical concerts. Informal listening doesn't need a fixed attention span either, solving the issue that a lot of youngsters these days seems to have immense problems sitting still for more than two minutes.

Couldn't agree with you more Amanda. But read Steven Isserlis on the subject! He feels hugely insulted when someone as much as starts nodding off at one of his concerts....and if you were to dare to emit the tiniest cough you'd be subjected to a furious glare by him no doubt.

I think classical concerts have come to take the place of a religious service for many, hence the enforced reverence. Perhaps there should be two levels of concerts: some for those who want to see it as a religious service and others for those who want a more relaxed ambience. But perhaps we have this already with open-air concerts and the like...

I'd love to see some of todays po-faced performers cope with an audience at one of Mozart's concerts, where you were considered a huge success if half the audience hadn't wandered off before the end.

I also think some of the strange reverence we give the composers is a little odd, given that they led very human lives in their time, often with numerous ***ual partners and going through all the same emotional ups and downs as the rest of us.

They do say that ideas of genius are often surprisingly simple!

They undoubtedly have their place ... but indoors with the ambience of a jazz club, except with (appropriately chosen) classical music on the menu ... for me that would be heaven ... as a performer or as a listener.

I think I would love that

Even at home, when people ask me to play, I'm always fine until I sit down at the piano and suddenly there is this horrible silence

What I do now is say "yes I'll play for you but I'll decide when I start playing and please just carry on with whatever you're doing!"

That way I can avoid people building it up into "Amanda's going to play, quick, everyone come in, sit down and stare at her"

So many people feel this way, and yet practically nothing changes!

Or is it simply that "big name" stars cost so much that you really need a huge venue with sardine-style seating to fit in enough people to make a profit?

Conversely, in Japan some of the venues that put on "music with coffee and cake" programmes are SO small that all 6 people in the audience feel uncomfortably visible!

I've just noticed that a paperback version of this book is being published this month which makes it much more affordable. The hardback version is normally around £20-30 but the paperback version looks to be available for around £10-12 new.

While I'm waiting for my turn, I genuinely feel like I can't remember how to play anything, it's absolutely terrifying. It takes me about 15 seconds to compose myself when I sit down at the piano because I'm a nervous wreck.

I always want to get back up and have another go though, no matter how traumatic it can be. I just have to try and detach myself from the surrounding environment as much as possible and try to forget that there's an audience...

I don't feel nervous particularly, but I know I am because I've discovered that when I'm moderately nervous or hyped up I tend to gabble, possibly incoherently On the other hand, when I'm seriously nervous, I clam up completely! My way of trying to overcome nerves is rather than forget there's an audience, is to remind myself that I'm part of the audience in the sense of being at one with them and wanting to share something with them - we're all on the same side, we're all wanting an enjoyable experience, and I try to look forward to providing it. Can't say it works every time though

Everyone is different with regard to pre-performance nerves. For some it is an ordeal which is still present even when they are highly esteemed professional musicians, e.g. Clifford Curzon (who was a truly great musician) suffered very badly from nerves.

I think good, solid preparation and getting into the habit of playing in front of people are really useful. (But on the few occasions I have played on a platform I was very glad there was a toilet close by!)

There is a very interesting thread on the subject over on the pianoworld forum:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.../1352431/1.html

That's a really good thread to read, actually.