I have been teaching a couple of kids piano for about 18 months now. One is 9 and the other 7. They both do 30 mins each. Over the past couple of weeks the mother has started to ask when i feel they will be ready to tackle the grade 1 material. I've said that I've made the mistake of putting time limits on these things in the past and wouldn't like to say. So I normally answer that I will begin the material when i feel they are ready for it.

It turns out that a 7 year old school friend of one of the girls has just got a merit in her grade 1 exam. From this seems to have come a competitive thing between the two families and now i'm starting to feel like I'm not teaching them correctly and that because one of them is 9 she should have passed her grade 1 by now.

Now, I believe children learn at their own rate and I dont want to just teach someone to pass an exam...especially when i don't believe they are at that level....but how should i handle this situation ? Honestly, the amount of lessons they have wasted by a sheer lack of practice and focus has been staggering but now they have a routine and i'm starting to see steady progress in both of them.

I think if i stick by my beliefs of being thorough and seeing slow progress it may cost me the 2 students....but then again I think it will do far more damage to rush them through pieces that will take months to get to a good level (never mind the sightreading / scale work etc).

help ?

hmmmm....

I think if you did rush them through, and they didn't do as well as the girl from the other family, there'd still be discontent, so I'd stick with your plan of putting them in when you feel they are ready for it and getting a better result.

It is silly when parents make comparisons like that. I have two kids from the same class who have been playing the same length of time. Girl a has just taken grade 2 (no results yet) and girl b wouldn't pass grade 1.

If girl a was with another teacher and not me, the parents of girl b might think that the other teacher therefore must be better As it is, well...sometimes other people are just better at certain things than the next person, as much as the parent might not want to believe that

The whole idea that one student "should" by rights be at the same level as another simply because of the length of time they've studied is one that baffles me. No matter how good you are, you can almost always be certain that someone out there has done it more quickly, and made a better job of it... it's just life, unfortunately

The truth is that the 7 year old school friend could simply be a much harder worker, and it might not do any harm to point that out tactfully - should they make you feel you're not doing your job by making pointless comparisons

Thanks ad_lib, it's great to see a message supporting everything I'm thinking. What is puzzling is that a few weeks ago, when this subject was first raised by the mother, she stated she wasn't bothered about putting the kids in for exams and as long as they were learning and progressing she would be happy. Something has obviously changed and I hope someone else isn't being lined up to replace me

You are absolutely right in your thinking. What about saying "perhaps so-and-so has got more time to practice"?

I have 2 students who began at the same time..... girl (a) has passed her Gr 4 last term and girl (b) wasn't ready to take her Grade 2 this term!!!! The different rate of progress is entirely due to practice here (and prior experience as girl (a) had done some piano before coming to me).
I agree entirely with ad lib. Stick to your guns!!!
I have 2 other pupils.... girl © and (d). C began last September. She is yr 7 but doesn't practice. I have a new beginner, 2 years younger, who has had previous experience o recorder and keyboard. She began after Easter and could have taken gr 1 this term. In fact I am considering skipping Gr 1 for her.... but pupil C isn't ready for Gr 1 after 2 terms more as she doesn't practice much. If they had different teachers I am sure parent of the slower progresser would not be happy with me and would think that I was a bad teacher as her child wasn't as advanced as the other child!!!!!

Have you actually pointed this out to the Mum, I would guess the other child practices regularly especially in order to get the grade 1. Make sure she is aware that kids develop at different rates dependent on ability but most of all practice.

Yeh I have, and not for the first time either. Starting to feel like she doesn't believe what I'm saying. The mother has just finished a course in teaching (16 - 18 year olds i think) so i do wonder whether she is now questioning the way I'm teaching her kids....it possibly has something to do with it.

But whether her kids are ready for a piano exam based on length of learning and their age feels wrong to me and I'm quite surprised it was brought up, again, at the lesson yesterday. I have said to her that next week i will bring the grade 1 books to show her how far they need to go. I also pointed out that I'd be more tempted to enter them into the prep test first and see how they got on.

So god knows what she will think of me when i show her the time signatures, key signatures, semiquaver rhythms, phrasings, dynamics (which are impossible to play on her current piano) etc etc of the pieces...not to mention the sightreading !

If it's not possible to play dynamics on their piano, I can't see how they can even contemplate doing grade 1. I would point this out to them, also that they are getting on better with regular practice and need to keep it up.

Probably shouldn't suggest this on the AB forum, but have you looked at the Trinity Initial exam, it follows more of an exam structure than the AB one, you still get Distinction, Merit, pass and fail and is probably more realistically suited to their current standard. Sometimes starting on exam work can give kids the motivation they need, and may pacify the mum a bit.

It sounds like a case of 'keeping up with the Joneses' to me. If the girl isn't ready, then you are right to hold back. Better to be firm now and do the exam when you feel it is right. Otherwise, the other girl will go on to grade 2 and you will be embroiled in an exam-chasing scenario that can only end in tears. Show her the grade 1 stuff and maybe give her a realistic time frame "If little darling carries on practising and progressing at her current rate, then she should be able to do the exam next year/2015/insert date of your choice" - if she isn't ready, it is down to lack of practice and an inadequate instrument.

Teaching a classroom full of sixth formers is completely different to one-to-one instrumental tuition - don't be pushed around!

Just to be devil's advocate here...if Mum has only been bringing her kids for music lessons for 18 months, and you haven't specifically said "A 7 year old will do best if she practices XX minutes a day, a 9 year old can probably manage xx minutes", then perhaps Mum doesn't realize that her children are not practicing enough, and are not sufficiently organized about/focused on their music.

From the sheer volume of "pushy parent" stuff on the media, including the Internet, a parent could quite reasonably conclude that they would be "interfering" if they so much as blinked while their child was playing their instrument, let alone SUGGESTED practice, or worse, commented on it.

If you think that the children haven't practiced enough, perhaps it's time to let the mother know clearly what you would like them to get done at home - what to aim for, what to actually do, and how much of it to do!

Otherwise, if the mother thinks she is being the perfect parent and doing everything right by never "interfering" with music, why wouldn't she be surprised to find that her children were not progressing very fast, and to wonder why...?

Of course, only you have met her, so if you feel pressured, no doubt you have a good reason, but perhaps a little clarification of goals, ways, and means would help.

Anyway, I'll wander off now, nonchalantly swinging my spiky tail...

ad lib's got it bang on here. Perhaps with a side order of AnnC's suggestion.

You could also warn about the dreaded "pyramid" effect of chasing exams (lots of basic pieces, some intermediate pieces winding up only able to play the three advanced pieces that one did for the highest exam), whilst encouraging the parent to get involved in a positive way by encouraging the child in a set practice regime (setting aside the same time every day, listening and making encouraging noises, surreptitious application of superglue to piano stool, etc.).

Cheers,

Matt.

My daughter (12) loves the goal of having exams, it gives her something to focus on. Perhaps this girl and parent would be happier if there was a goal at the end. In my daughters case she will practice much more if she she knows where she is heading and what there is at the end of it.


My daughter will simply lose intreset if she has nothing to focus on. Since Secondary school there are lots of other things too besides exams such as recitals, concerts etc all the time moving the goal posts, expanding her playing whilst motivating her to move forward to the next level, what ever that next level may be, exam or getting that really difficult passage right for the next lesson. I know as well as her teachers, she needs a goal to keep her going.

loads of great advice - thanks guys I particularly like the one about looking at the Trinity syllabus as there's no way they are ready for the AB one.







I have said to the mother on countless occasions that the kids haven't practiced enough. There have been numerous times when I have said to the mother that this weeks lesson was exactly the same as last weeks...and the kids have told me that they haven't practiced (which sometimes the mother denies!)

She has been a very busy person with the teaching course she has been doing so I don't think she's been able to spend the time to encourage their practice throughout the week.

However, I do make it very very clear what I'm asking them to practice each week as I send out email updates to all my students with a list of they are to focus on before the next lesson. The students print these out and so if it's not there I pretty much no little practice has been done.







It's a very good point and actually the mother said to me yesterday that she felt the focus of working on exam material would be an incentive to the kids. I pointed out that their focus at the moment is to complete the piano book that they are studying, which seemed to open her eyes a touch as to the direction of the lessons.

But saying all that....the piano isn't good enough and if they are struggling to play very basic / pre-grade 1 tunes then I can't see how increasing their work load and making things more difficult for them is going to help.


The question is how I continue to tell her all this without me sounding like I'm making excuses for my teaching and retaining the students. (I should point out that all but one of my students have got distinctions in their exams...so I can't be that bad a teacher )

LCM also do three introductory exams, all with pass, merit, distinction (and you can also fail!). I like them because they progress in small steps and give a good grounding whilst still satisfying exam mad parents. I'd take a look at this too.

london college of music ? (tis a guess)

You can download the LCM syllabus as a PDF document from here:

http://mercury.tvu.ac.uk/lcmexams/Subjects.htm

The Royal Irish Academy also do a primary grade and publish their syllabus online:

http://www.riam.ie/en/LocalCentre_MusicSyllabi_Keyboard.aspx

Best of luck!

Some thoughts from a violin teacher and parent:

This does have a 'competitive parent' feel to it! However, here are some thoughts to put it in to perspective:

- perhaps mum just does not know much about music exams - is she assuming that it's like something like dancing, where the children usually do a set of exams a year and then move up with their group?

- how clearly and regularly do you communicate with mum? Does she ever sit in on the lessons? I wonder if she has been so wrapped up in her own course that she has lost sight of what the childrens' priorities, at their age, stage and maturity level are. Perhaps this is a good time to invite mum in so that she can see what is going on.

- how clearly do you set objectives for each pupil to practice between lessons? Perhaps the faimily need a bit more specific guidance on how and what to practice. Or does mum assume that twice a week, playing through only the bits the child can do already, counts as practice !!!!!!

- hopefully, with a bit of tlc you can get your family through this by working closely with them. However, that will probably depend on their genuine desire to put their childrens' musical education the focus it deserves. If they don't want to do them, do you REALLY want this family?

Hey thanks for the reply. Yeh, I communicate with the mother at the end of each lesson (normally for about 15 mins...which I really must shorten) and like I said I email all my students with the specfic things that I'm asking them to practice. I make sure by the end of the lesson that this has been told verbally to the kids and the mother and that the kids are able to do what I'm asking them to do by the end of the lesson.

I'm starting to think that maybe using a different book to study from might be an idea. I quite liked the prep stuff on LCM syllabus. But it also makes me question which board this other girl has studied....I wonder if it's grade 1 ABRSM or not.

Another thing you could do is to explain that you don't start on exam pieces until all the scales are well known (not an unusual approach) and they are able to manage the sight reading at that level.
Have they begun on scales yet?

I like the LCM pre grade 1 exams.

Well i did mention that I usually gauge when they are ready by when they are at a good sightreading level. I tend to write out sight reading each week so that it gets progressively more difficult - and this has started to show signs of improvement.

They can both play the 4 major scales, over one octave, with both hands together and they are pretty consistent. Im pretty sure the arpeggio and work will be easier for them to understand - so it's definately coming on. The mother seemed quite plesaed when i told her they knew all the major scales for the grade.

As a Parent the important thing for both my child and myself is that she is making progress. I'm afraid she's another one that needs a goal. Parents often don't understand what is required for an exam and that can sometimes lead to misunderstandings. we can learn though!! Keep explaining and put the emphasis back on them to practice.

Ok so an update.


Taught the students yesterday and had all the Grade and pre-grade 1 material with me...she didn't really want to see it !?....She said it she was happy that they should continue the book I have them on and that other teachers are telling her they should practice more (one of them also plays cello and the other violin).

I also put forward the idea of the LCM exams and that a change of instrument would be needed...and she agreed.

So, all is well at the moment. I just hope the 'When will they be ready for Grade 1' question doesn't rear it's ugly head in the next couple of weeks.

THanks for all your advice guys

[night mare. I had one that tried to bully me into starting him on his grade 1, he just wasn't ready, I like them to have a really thorough basic knowledge. Once you're on the exam trail..... He had been learning less than a year, in the end she went to another teacher. But I was still glad a stuck to what I thought was right - dealing with pushey parents can be really stressful!!
help ?
[/quote]

Hi, I just stumbbled on this and thought I'd join in. I'm not a teacher and can't even play the piano but...
I agree with a lot of what Minstrel said.
I have a friend who is completly non musical who has a daughter (aged 9) who is learning Keyboard. Now 'Mum' thinks keyboard teacher is great but that daughter is not musical - she has been playing for about a year and there has been no mention of exams.
An old family friend of 'Mums' who was a piano teacher has just come along and said 'daughter' should be doing an exam by now. Up until then mum wasn't worried as had no idea of how long it should/could take to get to G1, but now feels a bit worried about the amount of money going on something that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere especially as daughter no. 2 wants to start keyboard as well.
The real problem is that 'Mum' has nothing to gauge progress on and has obviously been affected by what her friend has said.
Meanwhile 'daughter' has asked mum for an Abba music book as that is what she wants to play (I'm not sure but I don't think the Keyboard teacher knows about this) So my guess is that daughter is playing quite a bit, and will be getting better but would rather concentrate on Abba that the 'Keyboard tutor book' or G1.

I'm not sure that with my friend and daughter there is a real problem - but if there is it is down to communication. There is communication between teacher and 'Mum' but I don't think 'Mum' has understood it. I had a chat with 'Mum' last week and I tried to explain a little bit about the exam system and about reading piano music - and what her daughter is trying to do - including treble and bass clef and playing with 2 hands etc. which I know her daughter is not doing yet but it will come, anyway 'Mum' was really interested and had a lot of respect for what her daughter was doing just by being able to play a recognisable tune - but it's only now I'm reading this thread that I realise how important it is that 'Mum' understands and if 'Mum' has no music experience then maybe the quickist way foward would be for 'Mum' to have a lesson so that she can understand the importance of practice and so she can help her daughter to understand what she should be getting from practicing.

I think some of this may apply to your case as well.

Also in defence of any parent, I'm not sure I'd be able to listen to pre-G1 piano practice for 18 months if I didn't KNOW it was getting better and would soon be more pleasent on the ear.

As a Parent I know how difficult it is not being musical and supporting an interested child.

I think it's really hard as parents will hear tales not only of progress but also of the lack of it from friends and family.

I know a family who have been paying for Son to have Keyboard lessons for 3 years. Last time I spoke with them they told me proudly how he was G2. They are not pushy parents and have been mislead by a Teacher, they believe what they are told because they don't understand where a G2 Pianist might be. He's never taken an exam even with my limited knowledge I know he's nowhere near as good as they think.

Sometimes parents are judged to be pushy when they are trying to be supportive. I'm pleased for the OP that it has worked out well for you with this parent. She may well have thought or been persuaded that a grade exam was viable without understanding what they are.

I've been pushy myself recently with one of my daughter's Teachers not because I want her to take an exam as such, more for her to continue on that particular instrument a change of approach is needed. As a non-musical parent it's very difficult to ask for things to change on behalf of your child, you don't have the vocabulary or understanding, but you're often the one they open up to. Thankfully it looks to be working.

I may be behind the times, but: Are there such things as "keyboard" exams, as opposed to piano exams? Do these parents realise that being able to play a keyboard - which has light, spring-loaded plastic keys - is not the same thing as playing a piano, which has weighted keys and requires technical discipline and quite a lot more strength to convey the music? (Not to mention subtleties of dynamics and phrasing - it isn't just a question of pressing down the notes.) If these students have talent and want to get beyond a certain ceiling of limitations, surely they will need lessons on a real piano in order to develop their finger muscles and go on progressing. Keyboards are far easier, but therein lies the problem.

This apprehension seems to be borne out by the above observations "...he's nowhere near as good as they think" (after three years!) and "...daughter has been playing keyboard a year and still not using her left hand or reading bass clef" and "doesn't seem to be getting anywhere". The issue of using both hands and both clefs will get harder, not easier, the longer they leave it. These are core skills in co-ordinating the eyes/brain-intake as well as the hands, and they should be learned simultaneously, as young as possible. Otherwise there's going to be an imbalance in ability between the two that will keep the student back all his or her playing life. Also, muscles need to be built up and exercised. It's a physical skill which requires a training regimen, as with athletes and dancers. Light plastic keys don't make you work properly.

I speak as a pianist and harpist (which makes similar demands) and am not trying to be snobby, but don't these kids need to start on an instrument that will allow them to grow? Do the parents realise the differences between Keyboard and Piano? Or is there something I'm missing? I know that pianos cost far more and take up a lot of space, but I think it's an investment these parents must make, if their children really do have hopes of becoming proficient as musicians.

I believe the issue here is more one of the instrument than of practicing or communication between parents and teachers. Keyboards are for fun, but - beyond a certain very basic stage - not for learning.

In an ideal world, we'd all like to see our new students practising on pianos, but the reality is that very few parents are going to either already have, or are willing to buy, a piano at the beginning. Hopefully, as their children progress, they will consider making the investment.
I have a very promising 7 year old student who has just passed Grade 1 with a good merit mark and her parents are buying her a piano for her birthday next week. I completely understood when they said that they wanted to wait and make sure that she was doing well before doing so.

The students that I started this thread about learn piano. THe kids say they want to learn it, the parents say they want them to learn it. They just need to put the time in to practice if they are going to reach the 'achievements' that their friend is claimed to have reached.

Yes, they need a new instrument - and the mother is talking about getting one now that the kids have reached a steady rate of progress.

I'm not too sure why keyboards have been brought into this discussion.....

I thought it was relevant to some of the points raised above, particularly as to how one approaches learning piano. But clearly it's not. My apologies. Didn't realise I was derailing the thread.

I have got a lovely new pupil. He's 11 and has been learning with me for about five weeks now. He's made amazing progress so far - lovely bow hold, notes in tune, sight-reading excellent, good all-round feel. This week I said 'at this rate you could go for Grade 1 in the Autumn, and his face fell. He said 'actually Mum wants me to go straight in at Grade 3.' It was hard to hide my sharp intake of breath; what I felt like saying was 'actually I think your Mum should back right off here - I'm the teacher, not her!'

For the record, the mum isn't a musician but is extremely ambitious for her children; this particular son has already taken Grade 5 piano and got a merit; he's now working towards Grade 6!

While I appreciate the mother's aspirations, I still think I should be trusted to know what's best for this child, exam-wise. On the other hand, perhaps we should just learn the scales for Grades 1 and 2 and come in at Grade 3 next year....... I'm not really into trudging through grades in any case.

What would other teachers here do? I'm not about to overreact about it because the mother hasn't actually spoken to me directly about it; if she did, then perhaps it would have to be a different matter.

I'm not a teacher, Violinia, but I'd say make his first exam grade 3 - when you feel he is ready. If he's already grade 5 on piano, he doesn't need to do early grades to learn the system, and if grade 3 is a possiblity next Spring or Summer I think that's a good idea.

Rather than assuming he was ready to do grade 3 this Autumn, maybe Mum had just said to him that it might be better not to bother with grades 1 and 2 for violin, but to wait until you thought him ready for grade 3? Children don't always relay their parents' feeling accurately, as I'm sure you appreciate.

That's very true - he may have misquoted her entirely. On the other hand, the person who recommended me to this family has told me that the mother is actually very pushy indeed and that her children are made to practise all their instruments on a daily basis whether they actually want to or not. The boy tells me he's been doing half an hour's practice every single day since he took up violin, and it shows - he's one of my quickest progressers ever. He does seem to enjoy it and I try to keep the lessons full of laughter and fun because it seems as if he needs a bit of that in his life, but at the same time I do hope he's doing it because he wants to - it's a bit hard to tell.

What I do want to do with him is find out what his musical tastes are, so he can feel some ownership over his learning of the violin and for it to mean more than just another string of certificates. Otherwise - well, even though he could end up very good at his music, being made to do it could also put him off making music a part of his adult life.

Funnily enough, the woman who recommended me to the family was put through the same process herself - Grade 8 before she left school, daily enforced practice etc. Now at the age of 45 she's only just taking up piano again after more than 25 years'aversion to it.

Personally I'd make your position on entering kids for exams clear to the parent at the earliest possible stage. Then hopefully you won't get badgered by it for a while.

I told one of my new students mothers that I refuse to enter kids into exams until i believe they are ready and then gave a long speech about the damage it did. I remember doing the same to the parent in question on this thread and it's taken 18 months for the question to rear it's head again.

Being a grade 5 pianist at 11 doesn't sit right with me. Is he really at that level ? or has he just done enough to do well in the exam ?

He got a merit so he must be quite good. With a good teacher and half an hour's daily practice and a supportive parent, there's little reason not to become good, really. I haven't heard him on the piano, but he's taken to violin incredibly quickly and to be fair he tells me he's always wanted to play the violin, so it must be at least partly coming from him. I guess I was just a little taken aback when he said what he said about his mum and Grade 3, and also our mutual acquaintance warning me about potential pushiness has alerted me. I'll be on my guard, anyway.

To any parents out there - I love supportive parents but there's a point at which supportiveness becomes pushiness and then you're into another ball-game altogether.

As a parent, point taken. I really hope I'm not like that - I certainly don't want to be. I think the problem with grades is that they appear give an instant understanding of a child's current ability, and so when you get into the competetive parent situation, the consequence is all too often the pushy parent - 'if her child can do grade 8 at 3 years old, then so can mine'. Except, of course, that it can be completely deceptive, because if all a child has done is work for exams and has then struggled to pass them, they are not in the same position as the child with real ability who plays instinctively well, loves to practice and to play for the sake of playing and for whom the next exam is a natural step. My son is in the middle somewhere. He's 12 and has just passed grade 4 piano with merit and I think that's brilliant, and is a true reflection of any ability such as he has, together with some excellent teaching and the amount of time he's willing to spend practising, which is sometimes voluntary and more often not. However, a friend of his was playing grade 5 TG pieces last year (so was 11) and it was a delight to listen to him; but more than that, I also heard him improvising and accompanying, both of which he did superbly and with ease - he definitely has an extra 'something'. I'm sure if I pushed my son harder he might be able to catch up to the same basic grade level as his friend, but what's the point? Having the same number of their certificates wouldn't make them of the same ability, and my son would be a lot more miserable at being pushed a lot harder, or would give up, instead of how he is now, which is very happy and willing to continue.

ps I absolutely trust his teacher - it is up to her to bring up the subject of exams, and when she says he's ready, then he's ready.

You don't sound like a pushy parent to me - just a normal one!

When my son was still learning sax I often fell into the pit of nagging to practise - it's such a fine line. It's so hard to work out when it's OK to nag and when it's best to sit it out. I tried to give up violin when I was 12 and my father nearly became violent with me; I carried on and eventually became (after many hippy years) a violinist and violin teacher but does that make what my father did OK? On the other hand, if allowed to I would have given up at that point and my whole life would presumably have taken a different route - to somewhere worse, probably, but it could have led to something even better (though I doubt it). The problem is, we will never know.

Revealingly, I used to spend no time at all twiddlng around on the violin for pure pleasure, but did use to spend countless hours teaching myself the guitar and piano which probably broadened my musicianship no end. I often use my guitar and piano skills in my violin teaching (for accompaniment etc) so it was all to the good. Perhaps deep down I just prefer instruments that can play chords.... but on the other hand on a lovely gig there's nothing I adore more than to play my violin, and teaching it has proved to be loads of fun and become a true vocation.

I too know kids who play for hours for pure pleasure without needing to be reminded by their parents. I don't know what it is that turns some children into those kind of practisers whereas others have to be reminded. Some of my students practise off their own bats, others need to be reminded or nagged. It seems to be down to a fine balance between individual personality, energy, relationship with the parents, teacher, peer group, original reason for taking up the instrument, and the child's perceived goals. This deserves a whole thread!

Congratulations to your son, by the way - a merit at Grade 4 at the age of 12 is a major achievement however he got there.

I empathise with both these posts. It's easy to be misquoted as a parent or mis-understood. Nor do I understand why people want to compete. I only want my child to achieve for themselves but I am vaguely aware of people who want to keep up with or compete with her and it's so sad.

I did a terrible thing very recently. I've pushed my daughter into an exam. This will sound mad because I didn't want her to do it. I'd asked the Teacher for her to do the higher grade. There were several reasons for this, she didn't particularly like the material on the current grade, I wanted the Teacher to look at more non-exam repertoire with her, when pieces were finally sorted the timescale didn't fit (she would have had them for 9 months) and she has another higher level exam already planned for the next session. There was no rush and certainly no competition It was the Teachers idea to take the exam initially not mine.

I didn't know what to do and eventually felt whatever I did would be wrong and decided if she gave up (which I was certain would happen) she might as well do it with the next grade up even if it were only a pass.

From being totally resistant daughter has siezed the opportunity and is really working for it. Her rocky relationship with Teacher has improved (totally transformed). She's practising herself and with my support even scales, which is very unusual. I'm so proud of her committment and she's loving playing this instrument again. I don't know how people work out what is best under certain circumstances.

Notmusimum - I'm so glad it worked out well for you and your daughter - good luck to her!

Violinia - thank you! I think something that made a huge impression on me a few years ago was meeting someone who, in his spare time, played the guitar wherever and whenever he could, but said that he hadn't touched the piano since he left home. He said that when he was a child 'I played the guitar because I loved it and the piano because I was made to'. I'm sorry that your early experience of the violin was - well it sounds quite traumatic - I'm glad that you were able to make something positive out of something so negative. My son loves the guitar and I think he sees the piano as an aid to his future songwriting ambitions!

Thanks!! 10 days to exam......It's scary!!

Your son has a sensible attitude, when they love too many instruments it gets difficult. I also think that boredom can lead to negativity.

Thankyou fatar760 for pointing this thread out to me. I haven't read it all...stopped at this one to reply.

I do the same thing as the above with the children of pushy parents (actually do it with most of them anyway).

I think it's important to lay it down so there is no misunderstanding, so for these parents, I write down the scales, bc and arps required for the grade, and then tick them off when learnt. This sheet goes to the parent, so they can see how close (or far away) kiddo is before I will consider Grade 1.

I only have one person who is doing this at the moment (the child of present pushy mum in tother thread). Each time she mentions the exam, I wave the sheet in front of her and say "yes...we're getting there...look "

Other times, I've given them pieces that are grade 1 or above, and told the parent that if they can do that one well, I'll know they are ready to work on Grade 1.

Again...this is really just for kiddos with pushy parents, but certainly doesn't do any harm for kiddo.

Fortunately, I rarely have a PP, but this current one is driving me crazy. Wish she'd get off my back, because there is no way I am going to enter him for an exam unless I think it will benefit him.

yeh your PP (which is now how they should be known), sounds an absolute nightmare.

I guess as teachers we have to stick to what we believe is right and if the parent isn't happy then there's little we can do about it. The mother in your case is never ever ever going to find a decent teacher who is willing to push her kid through at the rate she seems to think he should be going. Some people really need a slap don't they.....

Very true. I know that I will do what I can to appease the parents as long as it doesn't compromise what I believe is right for the student.

After that, all I can do is step aside and remember that the problem is theirs, not mine, and if they decide to take their child elsewhere, they will take the problem with them.

I wear two hats here - peripatetic/private brass teacher with the occassional (and it is very occassional!) PP and parent of a young musician who is also my student It is SO very hard getting the balance just right when dealing with these things.

My daughter enjoys a target each term and at the start of each term I always ask her what she would like to achieve during the term. Sometimes its an exam grade, sometimes its being able to play a really tricky piece, sometimes its playing at a festival or an audition for a group she would like to play in. She is the one who sets her own schedule in terms of targets. Obviously, I guide her by reminding her what other non-musicial (and musicial) commitments she has in any particular term (such as her entrance exam for secondary school last Spring term) and advise her whether her chosen target is feasible but basically she is responsible for her targets. My job is to teach her the right things in order to reach those targets. I'm afraid I don't like students only learning the basic requirements (3 pieces, scales etc) for an exam so she does have to cover quite a lot of "stuff" if she elects an exam! Her achievements so far have been quite remarkable (I'm sorry if that sounds big-headed but as a teacher her achievements have impressed me and I am a hard task master!) She has been playing the trombone, which is her first study instrument, and Euphonium (second study) for about 2 and a half years and has won various brass classes at Affliated Festivals, passed G7 Trombone with Distinction, G6 Euphonium with Distinction, is in the National Children's Wind Sinfonia, the National Children's Orchestra U11 and the National Children's Brass Band - all targets she set herself. The only thing I have been a pushy parent on is theory which I have absolutely insisted that she do - much to her disgust!

The downside to this "model" that my daughter and I have going is that my students and their parents have seen it in action as it were and think that the same model will work for their child. Sadly, though, it doesn't seem to as they often have unrealistic expectations and are only competing with their friends to get to Grade Z by the age of whatever!

I really like the idea of "empowering" the students by allowing them to set their own schedule but am really worried that it will backfire! It's a tough call