Hi Everybody!,

Hope everyone is doing fine. I've had my 3rd lesson yesterday and i succeeded in the bow hold... at last! Just a few more questions for you to answer. It seems i'm not finding a good shoulder rest for me. The straight one simply doesn't work cause it's too big and the slightly curved one is better but still not 100% ok. I was wondering if anyone of you had ever found the setting up of a shoulder rest this tricky and what have you done. My problem is that i'm not broad shouldered and the shoulder rest is resting nearly at the end of my shoulder. My teacher said that it's maybe because i have small shoulders. I'm a size 10. Any suggestions? without the shoulder rest i feel better but there's space to fill between my neck and the violin. Also the violin's edge hurts a little cause it sits on a bone. I'm waiting for your comments. Please write!! This problem got me quite discouraged since i cannot find holding a violin very comfortable for now. By the way, i'm an adult beginner on a 4/4 violin.

Thanks!

Anna

I can't use shoulder rests, so my teacher took me through a range of options to find out what would work best. We tried some sponge pads, which were too uncomfortable, then we tried a cushioned pad which also didn't work. In the end, we tried a folded yellow duster cloth which I place over my shoulder and the violin rests on that and that has been what works for me. There are alternatives to shoulder rests out there, and it may be worth asking your teacher what they think of them and what they think might work for you. Good luck and hope you're enjoying the violin.

I agree - check that you absolutely do need a shoulder rest first - they're not obligatory. I don't use one when I play fiddle (although I do on the viola, which is odd, but there you are). If you find you truly must have one, there are all kinds and the best thing to do is to visit a shop where you can try out different ones to see which one suits you - some people also change their chin-rest too.

Just another fun step it customising your fiddle !

The Wolf shoulder rests would be good to try, as they have a lot of scope for adjustment. You might also find a change of chinrest could make things more comfortable.

That's what i'm using. i've had an hour (well... an hour and a half) session practice by myself and i tried setting it up differently than what we tried in the lesson. It feels a bit better already. I might have to consider a chin-rest change. So next week a day prior to my lesson i'll go get a different chin rest and let's hope it works better.

By the way, i'm using sarah pope's a tune a day which has a cd with background music as well as demos in it and it's really fun!!! I've just nearly got a piece which has to use an e on the d-string and a b on the a-string. quite tricky but did it!!!!!!!! it's fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huber pads.
I had the same problem as I have little neck and am pretty short all over. I started from nothing and added gradually - chamois leather, then the flat huber pad, then the sloped one and that was fine.
You should realise that you are to support the violin from the left hand and 2 very small points on the collarbone and chin, the height coming soley from the left hand and the other balance points just to stop sideways motion. Once people establish this, they can generally not use a shoulder rest (if they do, it is to give shifting downwards stability only, or possibly reduce sideways movement). The exception is those with very long necks, but then the gap should be "filled" with a chinrest first. Otherwise bowing is impeded for obvious reasons.

Your chinrest advice is spot on. My daughter, who has a longish neck, always struggled with shoulder rests, until she changed teachers last year. The first thing the new teacher did was to have her change to a higher chinrest and lower the height of her shoulder rest. This led to a huge improvement in comfort and freedom of playing.

I am a size 8 and I find the Kun Bravo (made with a maple back) shoulder rest works best for me. They are also rather nicely made shoulder rests, albeit they cost more than a plain plasctic version or a Wolf.

The reason they suit me is because the curvature is just right and the actual shoulder rest itself is not too wide - which means it's not balanced on the edge of my shoulder or catching the top of my arm.

I also use a maple wood 'Mach 1' shoulder rest from time to time. Again, they aren't cheap, but they are hand carved and nicely shaped, and narrow enough in width for those who don't have wide shoulders.

Ironically, both Kun and Mach are Canadian makes of shoulder rest.

A shoulder rest of some sort is fairly essential if the depth of the violin is not enough to naturally fill the gap between your jaw bone and your collar bone. (You do not want to be lifting you shoulder to 'wedge' the instrument in place, this will only cause you a neck, shoulder and possibly back injury in the long run). Addtionally, I too have a rather prominant collar bone, which means a violin back pressing on it - even with a folded hanky - is very uncomfortable.

Thanks very much for your replies. i will check different stores but i think i will not find much options here in Malta.

I like the Viva shoulder rest, they are far less pointy than the wolf rests and can be adjusted lots lower. I just did a google search for viva shoulder rest and a lot came up.

(I was initially caught by the pretty colours they came in!)

I have just found this description on e-bay it's about the wolf shoulder rest i have:

"The shoulder rest for all players! With a flexible metal backing, the Wolf Secundo shoulder rest can be shaped and contoured for any individual. Height and length are also adjustable, making this one of the most versatile shoulder rests available."

So according to this description, it can be shaped to contour all types of shoulders. So should i try to bend it and give it a deeper curve? is this description correct or will i brake it if i try? I'm asking just in case any of you owns one and had this experience. Can anyone confirm? I found no other site saying this about the wolf secondo.

Thanks! Anna

HI Anna,

I'm almost certain that the point of the wolf being so straight is effectively so you can bend it to suit yourself - it's got a thin metal backing, right ? You should be able to gently bend it to suit.

Allan

[quote name='rosfrog' date='Jul 7 2008, 04:04 PM' post='718523']

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HI Anna,

I'm almost certain that the point of the wolf being so straight is effectively so you can bend it to suit yourself - it's got a thin metal backing, right ? You should be able to gently bend it to suit.

Allan
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Thanks Allan,

as helpful as ever. Though i must say i tried it before i read this answer and guess what, it works! Now the remaining to do is change the chin rest as i think it's too deep. And guess what, i can't put the violin down! i'm really enjoying this. Also, by adjusting the shoulder rest i feel i improved already as i was holding the violin incorrectly and i've realised this today. I was putting the chin rest under the jaw line and believe me it was very uncomfortable, now i adjusted myself to it and it feels loads better. haha, i complicate things more!

[quote name='ilovebunnies' date='Jul 7 2008, 04:59 PM' post='718542']
[quote name='rosfrog' date='Jul 7 2008, 04:04 PM' post='718523']

[/quote]

HI Anna,

I'm almost certain that the point of the wolf being so straight is effectively so you can bend it to suit yourself - it's got a thin metal backing, right ? You should be able to gently bend it to suit.

Allan
[/quote]


Thanks Allan,

as helpful as ever. Though i must say i tried it before i read this answer and guess what, it works! Now the remaining to do is change the chin rest as i think it's too deep. And guess what, i can't put the violin down! i'm really enjoying this. Also, by adjusting the shoulder rest i feel i improved already as i was holding the violin incorrectly and i've realised this today. I was putting the chin rest under the jaw line and believe me it was very uncomfortable, now i adjusted myself to it and it feels loads better. haha, i complicate things more!
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Great! I'm so pleased you're enjoying your new violin!

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Great! I'm so pleased you're enjoying your new violin!
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Thanks!!!!!!!!

It's tricky trying to find one that'll suit you specifically sometimes...
I use a Wolf Forte-Secondo, which is curved - unlike the other Wolf one. Here are some pics:

Side View Back View On A Violin

It's quite high up...
I'm a size 6-8, with bony shoulders, and I find this one works for me!

Sounds as though you've fixed the problem anyway - have fun playing!

My wife suggests a Kun or a Voight shoulder rest; the Voight comes in three sizes.

Thanks for the suggestion but i don't have much options here in Malta. They bring only wolf ones. However I think i've found a solution. Now i bought a new chin rest to try if it's better than the one i have on. It seems to be much more comfortable as i'm having a bruised chin (it hurts when i touch it, maybe i'm pressing on it too much).



Thanks for the pics. That's what i'm using. Mine s quite high up also but it's very angled. I hope it isn't too much. Thanks for your comment too.

Glad it works for you! I also have a bruised chin (due to a fencing accident) and the shoulder rest is fine with it!

Ealing Strings, in London, are usually extremely helpful. If you phone them and tell them what you've tried, what's worked better and what hasn't at all, they will probably suggest something which they can post to you. Ask for a good shouder rest AND chin rest combination for you with your slight frame and shorter neck.

I would probably try either a Viva (as they are light and low) or a Playonair (they are like a blow-up cushion which you an inflate either a little more or a little less).

Be warned, looking ahead, when it's much colder in winter and you are wearing thicker jumpers you will probably find you need to alter the setup of your shoulder rest slightly!

I recently purchased a foam shoulder rest on the advice of our son's violin teacher. He has found it far more comfortable. The website is:
http://www.johnsonstring.com/cgi-bin/acces...p;instrument=VN

I have not seen anything like this in the UK and seems to be the only place that sells them.

Thanks Minstrel and Unmusical Parent, i will have a look.

I just read your signature and saw you are a beginner. Can I further reinforce that a shoulder rest is only necessary for things like downwards shifts, left-hand pizzicato, and for some people vibrato/accents/trills? You would do very well to use just a pad like the ones called Huber Pads so that you can develop a sense of balance and good posture without being reliant on a shoulder rest. If you are quite small you probably don't need a shoulder rest in the category of most being recommended. Look at all the great violinists, see how many of them used/use shoulder rests, even those with longer necks. If you are still in first position and don't have a long neck, you simply do not need a shoulder rest yet. Leave it as long as possible before trying them out. They're a pain anyway, and this way if you ever forget it it doesn't matter.

Washing up sponges and elastic bands- that's what my kids used when they were little.

Even then it depends on the person - I do all of the above without a shoulder or chin rest and know several other players who do the same. Many people use no shoulder rest at all and play just fine, shifting, vibrato, left hand pizz etc posing no problem - it really does depend on each person's physique.

In the age of dishwashers and with the current exchange rate I would highly recommend the posh alternative.

My teacher insists on having a shoulder rest on, i don't know why, maybe that's how he learnt. I'll ask when i have my next lesson. Thanks for all suggestions.

Maybe he really needs one - or perhaps his teacher just made him use one and he got used to it. More and more violinists are using them, yet logically necks are not getting longer and longer so we must assume that people are using them because they are told to do so and never question it. Menhuin didn't need one... never slowed him down.

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Maybe he really needs one - or perhaps his teacher just made him use one and he got used to it. More and more violinists are using them, yet logically necks are not getting longer and longer so we must assume that people are using them because they are told to do so and never question it. Menhuin didn't need one... never slowed him down.
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I find it quite useful especially when i need to turn pages...! However, my neck is not that short so maybe i do need one. Tonight i'm going to try and fix a different chin rest so that i can compare the one i have and the new one and see which is the best. I hope it will be ok.

Same. I just use a bit of chamois leather and a small sponge held on with elastic band because I have to bring my thumb so far round onto the rib that it's impossible to shift down without dropping the violin But often those shifts don't come up and then I don't use anything

Also, check out Oistrakh's amazing freedom of the neck and chin, probably better than anyone else's EVER, and he never used a shoulder rest.

I have very narrow and sloping shoulders, ie.from my neck they drop away at an angle. I've tried not using a shoulder rest and it just doesn't work for me.

Without a shoulder rest, I have to literally lift my left shoulder to get the violin to stay there. This in turn restricts how I can hold my left arm, which apart from not being able to play properly, risks some serious neck, shoulder and back problems.

I don't go with fashion, or what others do. I do what's right for me and I would suggest anyone on here who feels they should be doing a certain thing with or without a shoulder rest, doesn't pay attention to that. Do what feels comfortable for your physique.

Although as rosfrog says, it does depend on the individual... some people find it really hard without a shoulder rest, even when starting out. Others don't need them. I started off without one, but found the violin drooped downwards much less when I had a shoulder rest...and my neck didn't ache as much

For someone not using positions yet (like the original poster I assume, as he/she is a beginner) a drooping violin means the violinist doesn't have the correct concept of balance yet, it has nothing to do with a shoulder rest. As I already said, the left hand determines the height of the scroll, nothing else, in first position. It's a pity that teachers rarely bother explaining this early on, I waited 11 years before fully grasping this, and learnt it from a famous violinist eventually in a consultation lesson. A week later I managed to play without a shoulder rest for the first time I understand that in practice the individual frame will determine what is necessary but I'm just pointing out some facts about posture which are ignored by so many people due to a lack of understanding.