Hi

Did any one see the programme on BBC2 about the conspiracy that is the World Trade Centre? I think this is absolutely disgraceful. How can anyone believe that the American government would kill 10s of thousands of innocent citizens for what?

Did not see the program, but the 9/11 event and its aftermath raise enormous numbers of unanswered questions for anyone with a questioning mind. Why was the site cleared with such haste? How could aircraft impact bring down buildings specifically designed to withstand such an event? How was a second aircraft allowed to reach its target - what was the airforce doing? Why did the second tower collapse before the first, when its fire had burned less intensely and for a shorter period? What really happened on the fourth flight "brought down by heroic passengers"? How convenient was it to find a hire car with identity documents of some of the hijackers, a boeing flight manual, and a Koran? (and as for the imbeciles that planted this "evidence" - how stupid do they think we are?) Why were members of the Bin Laden family flown out of the USA next day when all other flights were grounded? How does an attack allegedly organized by a rich Saudi Arabian, with Saudi operatives, justify the destruction by Aerial bombardment of Afghanistan, and the escalation (culminating in an illegal military occupation) of over 10 years of a destructive low-level siege of Iraq? And how does it justify extinguishing, over a period of less than 5 years, many freedoms and civil liberties that had taken the citizens of Western democracies 1,000 years to win?

Would the US Government kill 10's of thousands of innocent citizens? Of course. They killed over 3 million innocent citizens in Vietnam, and who knows how many more in South Korea. Then there is the long history of supporting the wrong side in conflict after conflict in South America, assassination by the CIA of popular, democratically elected socialists ... the list of what can only be described as massive crimes is a very very long one.

Cheney, Wolfowitz, ... the whole gang of former oil and "defence" executives that have hijacked the American government and routinely ignore the constitution are, to put it mildly - amoral.

You ask: For what? To strengthen the world-wide USA Empire (The Empire that denies its own existence - but nevertheless maintains approaching 800 military bases around the planet - and has more effective nuclear and conventional firepower than the rest of the world put together).

I love America. It is a diverse country, and still very beautiful, with much untouched wild land. I love the American people. In general they are generous and warm hearted, and creative, and full of energy. But the administration is evil, and so are the organizations that support it - no other word will do.

[and please before you protest - I know that the USA is not responsible for all the World's ills. Putin is no angel. Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, and Mao's China, and many other regimes around the World, if they had had such power as modern USA would probably have abused it far more badly]

When I hit the button to post this message it will be noticed by the Echelon surveillance system, because of all the words and phrases of interest - but as I am probably already on the CIA and MI5's databases of dangerous subversives that does not really matter!!

Besides I'd rather play piano than fail to sort out the World's problems.

Penn and Teller do a great ######## show about this. If I remember correctly, it's pro-govt (but let's be honest, would it have been aired if it wasn't?). One could talk and watch videos on this subject for hours but this is a nice 10 minute summary.

Click here.

As for my personal view on the matter - it swaps and changes. Reading Tom's post made me want to think again that it was a conspiracy yet reading yet another post by someone else would probably make me think it was twaddle.

At the end of the day, 9/11 was successful - but for whom? I think there were a few winners. Al-Qaeda used the spectacle to generate fear, albeit it may well have been unwittingly, and the US got to bomb the heck out of whatever country they decided they'd like to invade at that particular moment in time.

I give this thread 3 days before it's closed.

I am not arguing that it is a conspiracy - who knows? But the powers that be could put an end to all speculation by providing some believable answers to the difficult questions and inconsistencies and illogicalities in the official accounts.

The stuff about de facto world-wide US empire with military backing, and evil regime in Washington is just fact - independent of 9/11


The fear has been more useful to Western Governments wanting to introduce Draconian anti-terrorism laws, and then use them to prevent all sorts of thing that are not terrorism


And that is the bit I don't understand - and a good argument AGAINST a conspiracy theory. If the US had wanted to invade Iraq they'd have mad it look as if the attack originated there. So this suggests opportunism. Using the emotional appeal of a counter-offensive without looking too closely who it was against.


... and I pick up my second warning?

You make some good points there. You're right about the fear thing, hence why I was particularly ambiguous when I said 'a few' winners.



Hope not!

Didn't bother. It stands besides other well known "facts" like the Roswell alien autopsies and the moon landings being faked.

I met a guy who was working in one of the offices opposite WTC on the day of the atrocity. He was telling me that after the second plane crashed, he naturally ran for his life and says he witnessed two USAF jets flying low and at huge speed over the water towards Manhattan. He surmises that they were just too late to shoot the airliner down over the city itself. None of that was ever confirmed by the government so it makes you wonder what else goes on....

I don't know if it was a conspiracy or not. (At 11, I was more worried about my family, even though they were a ways away!) But nothing justifies eroding liberties in the way which has been done - otherwise what difference between us and those who commit such acts?

Are you from the USA Rosemary?
High five if you are! i am also!