I am scheduled to do to do AB Piano Grade 7 in Nov. So that is my summer holiday - scales, scales and more scales!! I have my pieces well sorted, plus aurals and sight reading already well in progress - teacher said I could have done it in June but I was too chicken. Anyway, my teacher has given me a set of sealed letters - one for each week of the holidays - each week I open one and work on the scales she has listed in the letter - its quite exciting and I am never bored with practice!

But why is it that my scales are taking so much longer than I expected to get them fault free? I am really struggling to get them perfect. At 40-something, do you think it is my age?

If you have conquered scales, have you any tips to share?
Thanks
Elizabeth

The reason (IMO) scales take so long to get to grips with is because of the sheer number of them, you cant really spend enough time on each to learn it really well in the length of time you usually have in preparation for exams.

I think the best way to learn them is play them reeaaaaally slowly until you really know exactly where you're going and KNOW you will get it right no matter how many times you play it, rather than playing them slowly until you think you've pretty much got it, then speeding up and learning mistakes. I think the gist of it is to make sure you're not relying on muscle memory and can 'see' the next note before you play it.

yes i think you have something here - i feel I need to "know" what is coming next rather than just relying on my fingers!

And you will struggle forever, and you'll never get them fault free and you'll never get them perfect - even if you one day pack Carnegie Hall. Because playing a scale well - any scale - any speed - any kind of touch - is one of the most difficult things in piano playing - and perfection is not something that humans can attain, though it as a noble goal to aspire to.

Why does everyone that is grown-up keep asking this (silly!) question. You've reached grade 7 standard. Doesn't that prove that you can still learn effectively, and improve your skills? You don't hear children saying "Why can't I play these scales - it's my age isn't it - I'm too young"

IT IS NOT YOUR AGE!!

I LUUURVE scales. Sometimes when I'm just not in the mood to practise , I do scales and only scales. I only really started to enjoy them when I threw away the scale book on my (then) new teacher's recommendation and began to feel, see and hear them as patterns. Also....and it does help, I understand how to construct a scale, so I didn't learn scales by rote (i.e. G Major has one sharp etc). - I built (build) them.

When I started learning this way, I was told always to practice them in groups......C Major, c melodic minor, c harmonic minor, (c natural minor ) and the arpeggios, Major, minor, dim7, dom 7 etc.
If feeling particularly nerdy I'll play modes too. I I can happily noodle away an age playing x notes to a bow, legato, staccato, at the tip, frog etc. Brilliant.


On reflection perhaps it's just my way of procrastinating.....Not getting down to rep........

(I think I've just had one of those 'eureka' moments

I find scales difficult - I had mine all learnt and knew what I needed - and could do them all - but still messed up about half in the exam due to nerves!

Yes it's your age! (and mine I hasten to add). I find scales very tricky to commit to memory. I find than the finger memory thing takes over and when you start to rely on that you are stuffed if you try to think about the patters on the notes whilst in the middle of the scale.

Took grade 6 Saxophone on Thursday, every part of the exam went reasonably well except for the scales which were diabolical. I had been practising the syllabus for months (and I mean months) and at home they were 98% there, give or take the odd little fumble. On the day of the exam, the kindly Examiner started me off with F major and my brain went into meltdown (YES, really on F MAJOR) the notes were all over the place , I started stopped and restarted, restopped, I could not controll my fingers. The poor examiner said "take your time, you've played this 100's of times" but all I could do was to stumble through it. The next few were no better and I left feeling lower than a snake in a wagon rut. I don't know what caused it and I don't know how to cure it. I felt embarrassed that the Examiner would think I was cocky enough to enter an exam without learning my scales, when that is sooooo far from the truth.
Sorry for this note of doom and gloom but it's good to get it off my chest.

As Iona says practising them in groups is effective and finding scales that have fingering in common. Then find the exceptions. For example, in Group 1, you have to do Bb major and Ab major and the minors. Bb and Ab major LH both start off 321 4 over. Same LH G# minor. Exception - Bb minor LH 21 3 over. Being 100% about how the scale starts and where to put your 4s throughout is a great help.

When I did my Grade 7 in the 80s I had no worries about my scales and played them fine at home. In the exam, nerves do affect you and I remember having a small fluff and a restart of the first two notes in nearly every one - before I could sail up and down without too many more slips. It didn't affect the mark much so I think the examiners know if you are well prepared.

Good luck

Sounds like you had a nice examinier - when I messed up mine he just looked at me with a frown

Yes he was nice, I just pity him for having to listen to me!

Also an adult learner (fairly mature adult learner) I thought it did have something to do with age. However, looking back, I've always had trouble memorising facts, lists of information, etc. Scales are a bit like that. I'd do it better if I had a "hook" to hang it on. For example, a daft rhyme or mnemonic or a word-picture for each minor scale would be great - any inventive wits out there, this is your moment to shine!

I learnt the theory of how to construct major and minor scales, asked advice on the Forum and took it to heart, learnt the circles of fifths (and fourths) and spent weeks going over and over my scales, thinking about the rise and fall, patterns of notes and fingerings - you name it, I tried it. But you don't have time to stop and work out the relatives of what you have been asked for and whether to sharpen the 7th when you are in an exam room! When I got my notes sheet from the examiner he said "Not all were prompt or fluent sadly. Some were rehearsed." Actually they were all rehearsed - to death perhaps! When he asked for a chromatic scale on F (and you don't have to worry about how many sharps and flats there, do you?) my brain went to jelly and never recovered!

I'm really not sure what else I have to do, but suffice to say I start learning my scales for Grade 5 NOW. Leaving it till January for a June exam is clearly not time enough

BTW I did manage a merit (just) but no thanks to the scales!

~Thanks everyone for your input here - it is good to know that I am not alone! I feel I am definitely making some progress now but I still need to do some work on the harmonic minor contrary motions.

I have a set of index cards done and my kids call out what is on each card and then I play the scale. this helps because I have to listen to the command then "translate" it. Also it keeps my kids amused for ages in the school holidays while I get my practice without their whinging, and it helps my 4 year old with his reading!!!!

Scales are the bain of my life. My teacher today started me on the grade 6 scales for viola and it put the fear of god into me. She started showing me a chromatic scale going up 2 or 3 octaves on one string only. I'm not sure thats in the grade 6 syllabus. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Another thing that when I do the shifts in my scales I tend to go slightly sharp. I'm hoping that in a few months time I would have memorised my scales too a good standard like you guys. My main challenge for scales is learning melodic minor scales for the 1st time as I've always learnt harmonic. Does anyone have any tips on that? How did you all cope with the jump to grade 6 scales (learning both harmonic and melodic) from grade 5. I'll be intrested to hear your memories

I started learning my G4 clarinet scales as soon as I'd done G3 and I did the first several sets perfectly in the exam. The examiner asked me for loads of scales and I think he just kept going until I made a mistake, which I did eventually

I love scales and I started learning my first G5 scale immediately after I'd done my G4 exam. My (former) teacher was cross with me and refused to check my fingering

Having just taken up the piano as well, I love the sound of piano scales and doing them is so different to clarinet in the sense that the fingering patterns for clarinet are pretty random compared with the repetitive pattern for piano. But doing different finger patterns with different hands is a bit scary - I can just about do my first two-handed scale now, but I find it a bit odd and difficult to describe... it's not that I'm doing it by instinct exactly but because I can't think about both my left hand and my right hand at the same time, it seems to be a leap of faith that my fingers land on the right keys. I suppose it's muscle memory but on the clarinet I'm always aware of where my fingers are going to go whereas on the piano, they just seem to find their own way Does this make sense to anybody???

It makes complete sense

You get used to it: I suppose its comparable with the coordination of tongue and fingers for woodwind, in that you get used to it and can play anything with hands an octave apart with barely more thought than would take for one hand on its own.

As for the only thinking about one hand at a time, ultimately you'll want to be able to think about where they're both going at the same time (easier said than done - i've only just really started being able to do it ). But a lot of it does rely on muscle memory, when you end up with too many notes to think about, and rather than thinking about notes as such, you think about movements and the shape of it, or I do anyway as I have the concentration span of a knat .

I'm really sorry if that made absolutely no sense whatsoever... its a bit late, erm early

That's another thing that's scary about the piano - on the clarinet I always know what notes I'm playing and what fingering to use, whereas on the piano I find I've played a phrase and I'm thinking "how did I do that, I don't know what notes I've just used"

Its probably because I'm a first-study pianist, but I do that for recorder too, which is not too good (music goes from page to fingers, bypassing brain completely until i get lost ). Apart from the simplest recorder scales, I remember the general movements rather than the notes and their particular fingerings, so different keys have different shapes.

Back to piano though, it can be a bit disconcerting when you realise you've just played a whole piece without thinking about the notes. As long as this realisation isn't during the piece (especially in an exam!!), you're fine, if it is, you're stuffed and get that sinking feeling of 'I actually don't have the faintest clue what note i'm meant to be on... This is probably just me though...I think I'm a BAD example of a pianist LOL

So if I follow your example, will I get to be a Grade 8 Distinction pianist too I wonder...

Really...don't! I keep reading things on here and am like 'well, I don't do that, or that, or that...' and in general i do completely the opposite

At this rate though, who knows where you'll be in a couple of years: hands together scales after a couple of weeks - I'm impressed!! I don't think I got that pleasure until i'd been learning for almost two years. So, one of your weeks = one of my years = grade 8 in 9 weeks

now there's an idea for a thread!

I play the piano, and scales is often frustrating, because it is so facile, yet so difficult.

What I find is that it is fine to pick up a scale and learn it, but I am equally quick at forgetting it.

Within 10 minutes I can get to a good speed for a couple of scales and arpeggios. But the next day, I start all over again with the stumbling and landing on the wrong notes. The correct stuff do not stick to my mind before months of intensive practice.

It is pretty much the same with pieces. To remember a piece, I have to practise it several times per week. Else it will be out of mind very soon. I forgot my grade 5 pieces within 2 weeks Memorising a piece is so tough nowadays, unlike the ease of doing so when I was a child.

Has anyone had the experience of being unable to play a normal diatonic scale after a series of arpeggios?
After the big stretches on the arpeggios, my fingers want to stretch, hence land on all the wrong notes when playing a scale! Am I the only one who has this inertia in muscle memory?

With the scales, it sound like you're going too fast too quick (I'm guilty of this too). Go at a speed where you know where you're going rather than relying on muscle memory too quickly. If you know where you're going then you shouldn't make any (or not nearly as many) mistakes.

The same goes for playing scales after arpeggios: practise SLOWLY, then you will be able to do it, because if you're relying almost entirely on muscle memory and your muscles are in arpeggios mode, they'll quite likely take a while to readjust to scale mode.