Would five be too young to start learning the violin? We all play strings and my youngest is starting to take an interest and has announced that he's going to learn the violin, but I don't want to start too soon and put him off. He's 4 at the moment.
I'm not a pushy parent or anything like that, but I'd like to encourage him if he seems interested.
Does anybody have any experience in this area?
Full Version: Age For Starting To Learn Violin?
QUOTE(echelon @ Jul 12 2008, 03:40 PM) 
Would five be too young to start learning the violin? We all play strings and my youngest is starting to take an interest and has announced that he's going to learn the violin, but I don't want to start too soon and put him off. He's 4 at the moment.
I'm not a pushy parent or anything like that, but I'd like to encourage him if he seems interested.
Does anybody have any experience in this area?
5 would be a great age to start.
3 would be even better!
I teach from age 3 at home and at school from age 7 (not my choice) and small kids have floppier hands and arms, an openess to learning and playing and nearly all sing in tune. This all seems to deteriorate with age.
Where are you? Can I teach him??
QUOTE(violincjj @ Jul 12 2008, 05:48 PM)
small kids have floppier hands and arms, an openess to learning and playing and nearly all sing in tune. This all seems to deteriorate with age.
Ahem, 
excuse me please, but I didn't take up the violin until I was 10 and nothing physically, aurally or mentally, had deteriorated by that age! Despite what most would regard as a 'late start' on the violin, it turned out that I was particularly gifted and I subsequently made it into the profession. Additionally, I have colleagues playing full-time in top London orchestras who were also of a similar age to me when they first started the violin.Prior to to the age of 10 I'd played only woodwind instruments, but there is no certainty that had I started playing the violin earlier would have made me any better at playing it. (I've never had the nerve or ego to be a soloist either). It might have even had the opposite effect!
The ideal or so-called perfect age is very subjective. The ideal age at which to start is when the child is physically and mentally able to cope with learning to play a musical instrument. If this is not until they are 7 or 8, then so be it. They will have a longer attention span at that age and more physical stamina to hold the instrument.
At the tender age of 3 or 5 a general musical education which includes singing will benefit a child much more. I have inherited pupils aged 8 or 9, who started the violin at 4 or 5 and to be quite frank, their progress had been less than average. As an example, one 12 year old boy is only preparing for his Grade 5 now, and he first started playing the violin (not with me) at the age of 3.
Starting very young does not guarantee a child will make rapid progress, or that they will be playing the Sibelius concerto by their 10th birthday.
I always worry that teachers who are overly keen to teach the violin to children who are little more than tiny tots, are secretly hoping to find fame by discovering the next Vengerov.
Vengerov talent is very rare indeed. To end up with a pupil like that must be 1 in 1000,000..... literally.
My daughter had some violin lessons at age about four and a half, just because some friends lent us a small violin that their own daughter had outgrown. The lessons were not a great success, in part because my daughter had no real interest in playing the violin, and in part because the teacher was a real stickler for doing everything absolutely right and my 4 year old did not appreciate spending 30 minutes learning to hold a bow correctly... I sat in the lesson and she usually spent it misbehaving for my benefit. So, do find a teacher who knows how to interest small children.
When she reached 5 she said she wanted to learn the cello. We waited 6 months and as she was still keen she started lessons with a teacher who said this was the ideal age start. My daughter (now almost 12) is still learning cello, and still with the same teacher, who had the patience of a saint in the early days of lessons. Early progress was very very slow, and I certainly feel that in our daughter's case it would have been better to wait a year or so until she was a bit more mature. As a 5 year old, she did not really know what she was taking on when she said she wanted to learn.. Your son may be better off in that respect if you are a family of string players. I would endorse what AmandaL says about starting early being no guarantee of rapid progress either. My daughter has done fine but plays at a similar level to classmates who started in Year 3 rather than Year 1.
By contrast, the daughters of the family who lent us the violin both started quite young, one on violin and the other on a really tiny cello, and both are now at specialist music schools which shows, I suppose, that it just depends on the child..
When she reached 5 she said she wanted to learn the cello. We waited 6 months and as she was still keen she started lessons with a teacher who said this was the ideal age start. My daughter (now almost 12) is still learning cello, and still with the same teacher, who had the patience of a saint in the early days of lessons. Early progress was very very slow, and I certainly feel that in our daughter's case it would have been better to wait a year or so until she was a bit more mature. As a 5 year old, she did not really know what she was taking on when she said she wanted to learn.. Your son may be better off in that respect if you are a family of string players. I would endorse what AmandaL says about starting early being no guarantee of rapid progress either. My daughter has done fine but plays at a similar level to classmates who started in Year 3 rather than Year 1.
By contrast, the daughters of the family who lent us the violin both started quite young, one on violin and the other on a really tiny cello, and both are now at specialist music schools which shows, I suppose, that it just depends on the child..
[quote name='AmandaL' date='Jul 12 2008, 11:41 PM' post='721173']
[quote name='violincjj' post='720984' date='Jul 12 2008, 05:48 PM']small kids have floppier hands and arms, an openess to learning and playing and nearly all sing in tune. This all seems to deteriorate with age.[/quote]Ahem, excuse me please, but I didn't take up the violin until I was 10 and nothing physically, aurally or mentally, had deteriorated by that age! Despite what most would regard as a 'late start' on the violin, it turned out that I was particularly gifted and I subsequently made it into the profession. Additionally, I have colleagues playing full-time in top London orchestras who were also of a similar age to me when they first started the violin.
Prior to to the age of 10 I'd played only woodwind instruments, but there is no certainty that had I started playing the violin earlier would have made me any better at playing it. (I've never had the nerve or ego to be a soloist either). It might have even had the opposite effect!
The ideal or so-called perfect age is very subjective
Oh yes, I agree with all of that. Didn't start violin myself until 12!
I just really like teaching tiny kids, they have a ball in lessons with me, some learn fast and some slow, we sing loads too btw, it gives their brains work to do which I think is a GREAT thing!
And in general I do find older starters are more stiff and self conscious, good that things worked for you though!
[quote name='violincjj' post='720984' date='Jul 12 2008, 05:48 PM']small kids have floppier hands and arms, an openess to learning and playing and nearly all sing in tune. This all seems to deteriorate with age.[/quote]Ahem,
excuse me please, but I didn't take up the violin until I was 10 and nothing physically, aurally or mentally, had deteriorated by that age! Despite what most would regard as a 'late start' on the violin, it turned out that I was particularly gifted and I subsequently made it into the profession. Additionally, I have colleagues playing full-time in top London orchestras who were also of a similar age to me when they first started the violin.Prior to to the age of 10 I'd played only woodwind instruments, but there is no certainty that had I started playing the violin earlier would have made me any better at playing it. (I've never had the nerve or ego to be a soloist either). It might have even had the opposite effect!
The ideal or so-called perfect age is very subjective
Oh yes, I agree with all of that. Didn't start violin myself until 12!
I just really like teaching tiny kids, they have a ball in lessons with me, some learn fast and some slow, we sing loads too btw, it gives their brains work to do which I think is a GREAT thing!
And in general I do find older starters are more stiff and self conscious, good that things worked for you though!
I prefer to wait until 7 years of age before beginning a child on violin. I have started some younger, and sometimes it has worked, sometimes not, so - yes, it does depend on the child. If your son is showing an interest, cash in on it - but I would be prepared to take a step back and just leave it if the interest evaporates. He may pick it up again later, and, if he does, will not have lost anything by coming to it with a little more maturity.
QUOTE(violincjj @ Jul 13 2008, 06:44 AM)
i]Ahem,
excuse me please, but I didn't take up the violin until I was 10 and nothing physically, aurally or mentally, had deteriorated by that age! Despite what most would regard as a 'late start' on the violin, it turned out that I was particularly gifted and I subsequently made it into the profession. Additionally, I have colleagues playing full-time in top London orchestras who were also of a similar age to me when they first started the violin.You can start to learn an instrument at 12 and can reach a very very high standard - but you will never reach the standard of someone with equal aptitude, as well taught, and as hard working that started several years earlier. And it is not simply the extra few years of practice time that make the difference.
The best evidence is that there are genetically-programmed changes in the brain at about the age of nine. Not deterioration ... change. Skills learned before those changes can eventually be taken to a significantly higher level than those learned after that age.
So a 12 year old beginner can become an outstandingly good professional performer as an adult, but they will never be a Heifitz or an Oistrakh (or in my field ... A Liszt, or a Hofmann, or a Gilels)
If you start too late, then the ultimate heights will be forever out of reach. As someone that strtaed formal piano lessons at 12, and often neglected the instrument for years at a time I'd prefer it to be different, but that is reality. Fortunately, most people never do the work, or the right kind of work, to realize even a tiny fraction of their potential, so a late start (whether late means 12, or 52) is not an insuperable barrier to a career in music.
QUOTE(violincjj @ Jul 13 2008, 06:44 AM)
The ideal or so-called perfect age is very subjective[/i]
No it isn't!
As the parent of a relatively early starter (4), I'd like to say...
* Starting early has nothing - let me say it again nice and slowly, N O T H I NG - to do with making a prodigy out of your child, or even with wanting to do so. 7 is a normal starting age in the UK, 4 is a normal starting age in Japan. There are pros and cons to any age. People who feel it's wrong may simply not know how to teach a starter who is older or younger than they are used to. No need to make a religion out of it either way. Yawn.
* Starting usually does mean slow progress in the beginning. This is not always a bad thing - it means lots more time to listen to and play music!
* Young beginners often develop a "taken for granted" approach to their instrument - the plus side is that they often "instinctively" understand new techniques without being "taught", because they know the instrument so well, and come across things just through exploring their instrument. The minus side, of course, is that they may become wedded to doing things in a clumsy but achievable childish way that stands in the way of further progress.
* While there may be other highly beneficial approaches to music for littlies, it will depend on what's available within a comfortable travelling time for a 5 year old. Whatever is chosen, a week's gap between lessons is a long time for a child, so support at home will be needed - so there is both need and opportunity to provide broader-based musical activities at home. Many young kids here have very short lessons of 15-20 mins twice a week, moving to a once-weekly schedule around 7.
* I don't know that there is a magic "right" time, but 4-5 year olds can be developmentally quite different - some won't be too sure about the difference between tomorrow and next week, while others will be reading and writing; some will be tying their own shoe laces, others treat picking up a fork like mortal combat. If your child can pat her head while rubbing circles on her tummy, she can probably make a go of violin (the ultimate in professional wisdom, here!!)
* Dip yourself in boiling water regularly until you are nice and leathery all over, and totally hardened to being called a pushy parent! If you have a child who learns violin, somebody will probably feel a strong need to tell you how WRONG you are at some point! I think I would have wrested the violin from my son's arms and forced him to play the mouth-organ if I'd realized what lay ahead, but at the time, I just thought it was a handily portable instrument, and that since he sang all day anyway, he would no doubt be nagging me about some other instrument soon enough if I refused to let him learn violin. If your child likes to play the violin (practice is a separate issue, but usually "just playing" is regarded as fun!) and you are happy with the idea of lessons, remind yourself that you don't have to convince anybody else of the moral implications of violin at 5.
Two pieces of Olde Wisdome - one from son's previous teacher. She said that young children reach a point where they no longer believe that they are the best in the universe just because somebody says so - they start to be able to judge their own level of achivement. And then they want to get better, so they develop the determination to plug away, failing repeatedly, until they reach a level that satisfies their sense of achievement. However, some children end up between the two stages for a while - unsatisfied with what they can achieve, but not yet ready to try over and over again. She feels that it is best to wait a little before starting in that case (or take things very gently if you find that they seem to be in that situation).
Second bit of Olde Wisdome: a famous teacher in Japan said that she never took any children who couldn't speak up for themselves and say to the teacher when they met her for the first time. "Please teach me the violin." (Some kids came every week for months and dried up on the doormat every time before they finally got the words out, apparently!). She felt that was a good indication of their social development - whether they were ready to deal with anybody outside the family yet.
Best of luck, whether you decide to go with violin, general musical activities, or solfege or Kodaly-style learning.
* Starting early has nothing - let me say it again nice and slowly, N O T H I NG - to do with making a prodigy out of your child, or even with wanting to do so. 7 is a normal starting age in the UK, 4 is a normal starting age in Japan. There are pros and cons to any age. People who feel it's wrong may simply not know how to teach a starter who is older or younger than they are used to. No need to make a religion out of it either way. Yawn.
* Starting usually does mean slow progress in the beginning. This is not always a bad thing - it means lots more time to listen to and play music!
* Young beginners often develop a "taken for granted" approach to their instrument - the plus side is that they often "instinctively" understand new techniques without being "taught", because they know the instrument so well, and come across things just through exploring their instrument. The minus side, of course, is that they may become wedded to doing things in a clumsy but achievable childish way that stands in the way of further progress.
* While there may be other highly beneficial approaches to music for littlies, it will depend on what's available within a comfortable travelling time for a 5 year old. Whatever is chosen, a week's gap between lessons is a long time for a child, so support at home will be needed - so there is both need and opportunity to provide broader-based musical activities at home. Many young kids here have very short lessons of 15-20 mins twice a week, moving to a once-weekly schedule around 7.
* I don't know that there is a magic "right" time, but 4-5 year olds can be developmentally quite different - some won't be too sure about the difference between tomorrow and next week, while others will be reading and writing; some will be tying their own shoe laces, others treat picking up a fork like mortal combat. If your child can pat her head while rubbing circles on her tummy, she can probably make a go of violin (the ultimate in professional wisdom, here!!)
* Dip yourself in boiling water regularly until you are nice and leathery all over, and totally hardened to being called a pushy parent! If you have a child who learns violin, somebody will probably feel a strong need to tell you how WRONG you are at some point! I think I would have wrested the violin from my son's arms and forced him to play the mouth-organ if I'd realized what lay ahead, but at the time, I just thought it was a handily portable instrument, and that since he sang all day anyway, he would no doubt be nagging me about some other instrument soon enough if I refused to let him learn violin. If your child likes to play the violin (practice is a separate issue, but usually "just playing" is regarded as fun!) and you are happy with the idea of lessons, remind yourself that you don't have to convince anybody else of the moral implications of violin at 5.
Two pieces of Olde Wisdome - one from son's previous teacher. She said that young children reach a point where they no longer believe that they are the best in the universe just because somebody says so - they start to be able to judge their own level of achivement. And then they want to get better, so they develop the determination to plug away, failing repeatedly, until they reach a level that satisfies their sense of achievement. However, some children end up between the two stages for a while - unsatisfied with what they can achieve, but not yet ready to try over and over again. She feels that it is best to wait a little before starting in that case (or take things very gently if you find that they seem to be in that situation).
Second bit of Olde Wisdome: a famous teacher in Japan said that she never took any children who couldn't speak up for themselves and say to the teacher when they met her for the first time. "Please teach me the violin." (Some kids came every week for months and dried up on the doormat every time before they finally got the words out, apparently!). She felt that was a good indication of their social development - whether they were ready to deal with anybody outside the family yet.
Best of luck, whether you decide to go with violin, general musical activities, or solfege or Kodaly-style learning.
I do think generally speaking that if you want to reach really great heights with the violin or with any instrument, the younger you start the better. Most of the greats started very young, pre-six. Here's just a few:
Nicola Benedetti - four
Nigel Kennedy - five
Chloe Hanslip - two
Anne-Sophie Mutter - five
Gidon Kremer - four
Maxim Vengerov - five
But then we're not talking about aiming for international stardom, we're just talking about learning to play! Incidentally in America it's the norm to start at five with the Suzuki method. Here it's become the norm to start at about 7 at home or in schools, using a variety of methods and with varying degrees of success. I'd hazard a guess that there are probably more competent young aspiring violinists per head of population in the US then in the UK, because of the manner of starting, especially if the Suzuki teacher is a good one and there really is much attention to fine detail and a massively supportive family environment.
I'm not saying I think the Suzuki method is the best, but if you want to start very young for whatever reason, then it probably is the best way, at least for the first few years.
If you want to start older, then I recommend finding the best teacher you possibly can and make sure they also adore young children. Go for two lessons a week for the first year to get things going, and be as supportive as you possibly can with practice while trying to keep the practice sessions as light and fun as possible. Give lots of praise but NO criticism - you're the PARENT and LISTENER/APPRECIATOR not the teacher, and if you take the fun out of practising you will kill the motivation stone dead!
Nicola Benedetti - four
Nigel Kennedy - five
Chloe Hanslip - two
Anne-Sophie Mutter - five
Gidon Kremer - four
Maxim Vengerov - five
But then we're not talking about aiming for international stardom, we're just talking about learning to play! Incidentally in America it's the norm to start at five with the Suzuki method. Here it's become the norm to start at about 7 at home or in schools, using a variety of methods and with varying degrees of success. I'd hazard a guess that there are probably more competent young aspiring violinists per head of population in the US then in the UK, because of the manner of starting, especially if the Suzuki teacher is a good one and there really is much attention to fine detail and a massively supportive family environment.
I'm not saying I think the Suzuki method is the best, but if you want to start very young for whatever reason, then it probably is the best way, at least for the first few years.
If you want to start older, then I recommend finding the best teacher you possibly can and make sure they also adore young children. Go for two lessons a week for the first year to get things going, and be as supportive as you possibly can with practice while trying to keep the practice sessions as light and fun as possible. Give lots of praise but NO criticism - you're the PARENT and LISTENER/APPRECIATOR not the teacher, and if you take the fun out of practising you will kill the motivation stone dead!
Thanks for everybody's replies. I appreciate your thoughts
I've found 32 a good age to start.
No other home work and can already read music and cope with a full size violin.
Bonus
No other home work and can already read music and cope with a full size violin.
Bonus
*lol*
I'm just learning the viola at age 38 and it's killing me!
My brain has seized up!!!!!!!!
I'm still enjoying it though and determined to get to my Grade 1 next year
I'm just learning the viola at age 38 and it's killing me!
My brain has seized up!!!!!!!!
I'm still enjoying it though and determined to get to my Grade 1 next year
[size=3]I think start learning violin at the age of four is too young for your child .I suggest 7 .I started playing violin this year and Im 14 and I think learning violin at this age is alot easier for myself and for my teacher.
QUOTE(pizzicato27 @ Jul 22 2008, 05:10 AM)
[size=3]I think start learning violin at the age of four is too young for your child .I suggest 7 .I started playing violin this year and Im 14 and I think learning violin at this age is alot easier for myself and for my teacher.
But you don't have the personal experience of having lessons as a young child to back this opinion up with fact? In another thread you ask if its possible for you to become a professional violinist given that you only just started at age 14, perhaps you can see that if you had in fact started 10 years ago you might be in a stronger position?
I think that if the lessons are fun and stimulating then it's good for a younger child to have that experience. If you start teaching them and they're not ready then they can always come back to it at a later date. I just think that string instruments are quite difficult and take a while to learn and if you start when you're younger then you get to take your time.
QUOTE(violincjj @ Jul 22 2008, 03:12 PM)
QUOTE(pizzicato27 @ Jul 22 2008, 05:10 AM)
[size=3]I think start learning violin at the age of four is too young for your child .I suggest 7 .I started playing violin this year and Im 14 and I think learning violin at this age is alot easier for myself and for my teacher.
But you don't have the personal experience of having lessons as a young child to back this opinion up with fact? In another thread you ask if its possible for you to become a professional violinist given that you only just started at age 14, perhaps you can see that if you had in fact started 10 years ago you might be in a stronger position?
LOL you misunderstood me.Sometimes kids just wanna fun when they are four but I always think 7 or 6 is the perfect age to play violin.Not too old and not too young.of course Im not in that position but my friend,started playing the violin at four and she doesnt like it because all she ever did is practising when she was four .I know what you mean.I wish I started playing when I was 7!but ohno ohoho not four.Never even wished.
I started at 8. I did not understand what a scale was for a couple fo years even tohugh i was taught some simple ones.
I was very slow to get off the mark but have picked up the pace considerably since dropping music exams. I may do g8 sometime, maybe next summer.
Anway I reckon 8-10 is a good starting age. At this age the child can decide if they wanna learn the instrument.
I was very slow to get off the mark but have picked up the pace considerably since dropping music exams. I may do g8 sometime, maybe next summer.
Anway I reckon 8-10 is a good starting age. At this age the child can decide if they wanna learn the instrument.
My daughter started violin at 6. She's doing ok... she's now 9 and just got a merit in her Gr 3.... Her teacher has a daughter the same age as my daughter so she knew how children of that age 'work'. My daughter is an able girl, who ould read fairly well at 6.
I am changing my mind about the age children can start to learn the clarinet!!! I never touched under yr 4's for the clarinet and got a bit fed up with all the yr 2's starting violin.....The school I teach in invested in an Eb clarinet and I started with a couple of yr 3's last yr and this year took on a 6 year old. I'm loving it. It's very different teaching very young children. We 'do' music a fair bit..... we move about a bit and my 6 year old loves writing notes on my white board which she then plays... I use flash cards a lot, as reading improves, we 'write' words with notes, which we then play... anything that's fun.
My 6 year old has been fabulous. I teach her sister and her mum used to play. If you teach very young children, you need a good back up system at home.... a parent helping with practice etc. But I love teaching the very young!!!! They might not progress super quickly, (but my 6 year old is doing well), but I have come to the opinion that it is a valuable thing to teach such small children. My daughter's life was enriched by learning so young . Sure, she would have maybe progressed faster if she started at 9.... but she's learned a lot that's given her confidence and another dimension to her life.
I am changing my mind about the age children can start to learn the clarinet!!! I never touched under yr 4's for the clarinet and got a bit fed up with all the yr 2's starting violin.....The school I teach in invested in an Eb clarinet and I started with a couple of yr 3's last yr and this year took on a 6 year old. I'm loving it. It's very different teaching very young children. We 'do' music a fair bit..... we move about a bit and my 6 year old loves writing notes on my white board which she then plays... I use flash cards a lot, as reading improves, we 'write' words with notes, which we then play... anything that's fun.
My 6 year old has been fabulous. I teach her sister and her mum used to play. If you teach very young children, you need a good back up system at home.... a parent helping with practice etc. But I love teaching the very young!!!! They might not progress super quickly, (but my 6 year old is doing well), but I have come to the opinion that it is a valuable thing to teach such small children. My daughter's life was enriched by learning so young . Sure, she would have maybe progressed faster if she started at 9.... but she's learned a lot that's given her confidence and another dimension to her life.
My daughter started a couple of months short of her 10th birthday 18 months ago and she's doing ok. She's hoping to do her Grade 7 exam in the next few months, and has just auditioned successfully for a Junior Conservatoire, as well as for some national level orchestras. It has been a steep learning curve for her.
We think that her progress has been helped by the fact that she's done some kind of musical activity or the other since she was 3/4 years old- she did classical dance to diploma level from age of 4, and has always been singing since she could talk. On the other hand, she started the piano at the same time and is nowhere at the same level- she'll be doing grade 3 soon. So, it must be a better match with the violin for her. When she hears of young kids playing at advanced level, she sometimes wishes that she'd had the opportunity to start the violin earlier. Our personal circumstances didn't permit it. But I do think that her progress has been partly because she had the determination and enthusiasm that came with age and maturity. On the other hand, starting younger would 've certainly given her the experience of playing longer on the instrument which she misses now.
There is no right or wrong age- it certainly depends on the individual child.
I personally feel that if a kid shows musical aptitude and interest and if there is support at home, he/she could benefit from an early start, even as early as 4 years old.
We think that her progress has been helped by the fact that she's done some kind of musical activity or the other since she was 3/4 years old- she did classical dance to diploma level from age of 4, and has always been singing since she could talk. On the other hand, she started the piano at the same time and is nowhere at the same level- she'll be doing grade 3 soon. So, it must be a better match with the violin for her. When she hears of young kids playing at advanced level, she sometimes wishes that she'd had the opportunity to start the violin earlier. Our personal circumstances didn't permit it. But I do think that her progress has been partly because she had the determination and enthusiasm that came with age and maturity. On the other hand, starting younger would 've certainly given her the experience of playing longer on the instrument which she misses now.
There is no right or wrong age- it certainly depends on the individual child.
I personally feel that if a kid shows musical aptitude and interest and if there is support at home, he/she could benefit from an early start, even as early as 4 years old.
I have had a couple of 5 /6 year olds start piano, but drop out fairly quickly, mainly because mums didn't see the progress they were hoping for, and were not able to support the practice as much as they needed to. At that age children will probably not be able to practice properly without supervision, and both mums had younger toddlers and couldn't devote the time. My preferred age for starting piano is 7-9, although younger is possible. I find that for most average kids they will be at the same place at age 10 whether they started at 5 or 8. I have had teenagers make very fast progress, and some very bright ones go faster younger. Same with cello - I have had beginners from 6 - 12, and most younger ones find it a struggle unless there is lots of musical support at home.
Problem is youngsters can't do structured practice.
Many parents are musically incapable so they can't help their child a lot. This hinders progress a lot.
Many parents are musically incapable so they can't help their child a lot. This hinders progress a lot.
Straying off topic here...this is going to sound like a really stupid question but hey ho. How do you teach a child say 2/3/4 years of age to read music like a,b,c... if they cannot yet read or don't even know the alphebet or at two years old even form a sentence? 
I bet there is a simple answer to this but my brain is maxed out. I got offered piano lessons when age 8 and I didn't take them, to be honest I have no idea why because to this day I regret it, I soo wish I had taken them rather than starting at 15.
Thanks PSL
Alphabet***
I bet there is a simple answer to this but my brain is maxed out. I got offered piano lessons when age 8 and I didn't take them, to be honest I have no idea why because to this day I regret it, I soo wish I had taken them rather than starting at 15.
Thanks PSL
Alphabet***
QUOTE(piano*singing*lover @ Aug 9 2008, 11:09 PM)
How do you teach a child say 2/3/4 years of age to read music like a,b,c... if they cannot yet read or don't even know the alphebet or at two years old even form a sentence?
I wouldn't!
Why would you want to teach notation to a two-year old who can't form a sentence or read at all???
QUOTE(Violin Hero @ Aug 9 2008, 09:56 PM)
Problem is youngsters can't do structured practice.
Many parents are musically incapable so they can't help their child a lot. This hinders progress a lot.
Even if the parents are not musical they can help enormously by encouraging regular practise.
Some of my best students have parents who never played at all but who are fabulous at supporting their kids....the habit of violin practise while mum/dad cooks dinner etc is easy to get into and even the non musical parent can offer feedback/suggestions/requests.
I always love it when kids tell me 'This is my dad's favourite piece to hear'
I started learning violin and piano around the age of 3 - learnt to read music the same time I learnt to read, and had G8 violin by 10. Apparently I had a long concentration span for a child. I don't feel any of this was detrimental to my development. I had a very supportive mother who would sit with me whilst I practiced until I was about 7; by which stage I was well able to practice by myself.
I very much enjoyed being able to play the piano for my friends to sing and dance to when I was 9 or 10. Being at an advanced standard just made life easy. I also wasn't having to try and prioritize GCSE's/A levels/music exams.
Fanny Waterman always said that not all child prodigies grow up to be world class musicians, but most world class musicians were child prodigies.
I believe that if, as a parent, you are able to support your child's practice time, and the child WANTS to learn, then it doesn't matter how young you start. However, if the child is not interested, pushing a child at that age is pointless. It's all very individual. I don't believe that there is a generic answer to the question.
I very much enjoyed being able to play the piano for my friends to sing and dance to when I was 9 or 10. Being at an advanced standard just made life easy. I also wasn't having to try and prioritize GCSE's/A levels/music exams.
Fanny Waterman always said that not all child prodigies grow up to be world class musicians, but most world class musicians were child prodigies.
I believe that if, as a parent, you are able to support your child's practice time, and the child WANTS to learn, then it doesn't matter how young you start. However, if the child is not interested, pushing a child at that age is pointless. It's all very individual. I don't believe that there is a generic answer to the question.
QUOTE(Lizzy violin @ Jul 18 2008, 03:37 PM)
I've found 32 a good age to start.
I am sorry - I absolutely disagree. For me the best age is 53!
<-- Madder than ever
I completely understand what you mean about childrens practice often being hindered at home!
I have a seven year old who has been learning the piano for just over a year (doing her grade 2) and has just started learning the violin. She has two younger siblings - a sister aged 5 who seems completely disinterested and a 20 month old brother who wants to do nothing but play on the piano when she is practicing or sing in a very loud voice so that I can hardly hear (or concentrate) on what my daughter is doing! The funny thing is I'm not sure whether I should be discouraging him and putting him in a separate room etc or encouraging his obvious interest in music!! (he is actually surprisingly tuneful!!)
To be honest I think it is more distracting for me than my daughter, she seems completely able to switch off from what he is doing and get on with it.
Seriously though Unfortunately, with three children, various after school activities, play dates etc and a husband who is not usually home until the children are getting ready for bed, it is hard to find time to devote to her practice, and I do feel VERY guilty about this! Luckily she takes herself off to practice by herself, but I except that at 7 this is not always as productive as having adult supervision.
May I also add for the parents whos kids want to start young, My daughter nagged to play the piano from about age 4. I dismissed the idea and unfortunately listened to playground know -it- alls who told me that it would be sad to start so young - no childhood, what child wants to sit and practice at that age etc etc etc....
I eventually listened to my child rather than everyone else last year and she started learning. Amazingly she has still stayed a 'normal' seven year old who has friends and loves going to the park (wow,how did that happen!)
The only difference is that when she has had her breakfast in the mornings instead of sitting infront of the TV until school time she takes herself off to the piano and plays.
I now regret not having let her start younger and hope that I havent closed any doorways for her (not to say that she could, or would even want to be a pro, its just creating opportunities for them to choose for themselves.)
I have a seven year old who has been learning the piano for just over a year (doing her grade 2) and has just started learning the violin. She has two younger siblings - a sister aged 5 who seems completely disinterested and a 20 month old brother who wants to do nothing but play on the piano when she is practicing or sing in a very loud voice so that I can hardly hear (or concentrate) on what my daughter is doing! The funny thing is I'm not sure whether I should be discouraging him and putting him in a separate room etc or encouraging his obvious interest in music!! (he is actually surprisingly tuneful!!)
To be honest I think it is more distracting for me than my daughter, she seems completely able to switch off from what he is doing and get on with it.
Seriously though Unfortunately, with three children, various after school activities, play dates etc and a husband who is not usually home until the children are getting ready for bed, it is hard to find time to devote to her practice, and I do feel VERY guilty about this! Luckily she takes herself off to practice by herself, but I except that at 7 this is not always as productive as having adult supervision.
May I also add for the parents whos kids want to start young, My daughter nagged to play the piano from about age 4. I dismissed the idea and unfortunately listened to playground know -it- alls who told me that it would be sad to start so young - no childhood, what child wants to sit and practice at that age etc etc etc....
I eventually listened to my child rather than everyone else last year and she started learning. Amazingly she has still stayed a 'normal' seven year old who has friends and loves going to the park (wow,how did that happen!)
The only difference is that when she has had her breakfast in the mornings instead of sitting infront of the TV until school time she takes herself off to the piano and plays.
I now regret not having let her start younger and hope that I havent closed any doorways for her (not to say that she could, or would even want to be a pro, its just creating opportunities for them to choose for themselves.)
My daughter started learning Suzuki violin at 4 1/2, because she was obsessed by the violins in her older sister's school orchestra. I think it was a good thing, as it has given her a very good ear. Progress went in fits and starts, but with perisistence and parental support it has been ok. She plays nicely now and and is in Main Orchestra of NCO this year, but don't think that she is Vengerov! I am just happy that she enjoys playing and has fun with others!
Violinma
i was 12.
QUOTE(laura-clarinet @ Jan 28 2009, 09:05 PM)
i was 12.
So was I.
W
QUOTE(piano*singing*lover @ Aug 9 2008, 10:09 PM)
Straying off topic here...this is going to sound like a really stupid question but hey ho. How do you teach a child say 2/3/4 years of age to read music like a,b,c... if they cannot yet read or don't even know the alphebet or at two years old even form a sentence?
It is perfectly possible. I was given a creamy-coloured plastic recorder and music book for Christmas by my one of my Mam's friends when I was 3 and a half. My Mam's friend taught me how to play the recorder and read the music (treble clef stave) including the note names. I therefore learnt how to read music quite a long time before I learnt to read.
Not sure that learning how to read music at that age helped when I then had to learn to read at school. I'd didn't really learn how to read until I moved into the junior class, although this was partly because I didn't understand that reciting what I'd heard other people read was different to actually reading.
I started violin when I was eight, and I think that was a pretty good age to start.
I started piano at 4 and never got bored either so that was fine too.
I started piano at 4 and never got bored either so that was fine too.
If a pre-school child starts learning violin they pretty much need to follow a method like Suzuki, involving no notation but a massive amount of parental support for at least the first couple of years. Most American violin students start out very young like 5 or even 3, and most follow Suzuki. An awful lot of them become very fine players and I'd hazard a guess that proprtionally far more American children who take up violin become quite proficient at it by age 10 or so than in the UK, where most violin learners start at age 7 or 8 and study with school peris in group lessons with no parental support at all. And have achieved relatively very little by age 10 - perhaps a scraped Grade 2 pass or something but very little real skill at the instrument.
But then over there you have a lot more of the 'hockey mom' type who have the time, money and inclination to attend all their children's private lessons for years and years. Here most parents see violin or any other music lessons as just another extra-curricular activity but without any understanding that unlike extra-curricular dance lessons, gym, football training, archery and the rest, inter-lesson practice is an absolute necessity not a mere option!
But then over there you have a lot more of the 'hockey mom' type who have the time, money and inclination to attend all their children's private lessons for years and years. Here most parents see violin or any other music lessons as just another extra-curricular activity but without any understanding that unlike extra-curricular dance lessons, gym, football training, archery and the rest, inter-lesson practice is an absolute necessity not a mere option!
QUOTE(Violinia @ Feb 8 2009, 05:57 PM)
If a pre-school child starts learning violin they pretty much need to follow a method like Suzuki, involving no notation but a massive amount of parental support for at least the first couple of years. Most American violin students start out very young like 5 or even 3, and most follow Suzuki. An awful lot of them become very fine players and I'd hazard a guess that proprtionally far more American children who take up violin become quite proficient at it by age 10 or so than in the UK, where most violin learners start at age 7 or 8 and study with school peris in group lessons with no parental support at all. And have achieved relatively very little by age 10 - perhaps a scraped Grade 2 pass or something but very little real skill at the instrument.
But then over there you have a lot more of the 'hockey mom' type who have the time, money and inclination to attend all their children's private lessons for years and years. Here most parents see violin or any other music lessons as just another extra-curricular activity but without any understanding that unlike extra-curricular dance lessons, gym, football training, archery and the rest, inter-lesson practice is an absolute necessity not a mere option!
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Oh, I'm definitely not a 'hockey mom' type. I'm learning viola alongside my eldest son and also have piano to practise, so the house is filled with music off and on all day.
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