I know people have posted about this before....but I am a little shocked.
Had a 13 year old do TG Grade 6... has 1-5 in AB. Has a lovely voice...really poweful sometimes but a lovely natural quality.It appears she was very flat..which I assume was nerves...she had this comment for one song in her Grade 5. They took one mark off for singing one song in English...which didn't effect the outcome. She is one of my best singers and I am flabbergasted...need to know how to move on with her.The comment at the bottom says she was ill prepared technically and musically....which I think is unfair because I haven't done anything different with her than usual or that I do with others. I feel that is not an appropriate comment and could damage me proffessionally.Help

Hi Country Girl,

Please try not to worry. If indeed it was nerves, this can play havoc with exams, making one appear to be insufficiently prepared even when one has worked one's socks off. That might explain why she didn't get through, even though you didn't do anything differently. Sorry, I can't help you with the singing side of things as I'm not a singer, but just wanted to offer some moral support. As teachers, it's a risk we all run from time to time. I know all examiners are supposed to mark the same, but I don't think this happens. There must be a subjective element in it, and you may just have been unlucky enough to have a mean examiner combined with a nervous student.

You could try appealing; perhaps have a look and see whether you think the examiner's other comments were fair. Otherwise, learn what you can from it and move on. Don't stress about it and allow it to affect you professionally.

Is it something to do with TG in general?? A singing teacher at my school enetred 4 singers, and they all failed!!! she is a very good teacher and with AB they usually get merit or distinction. A girl with my singing teacher dis TG on the same day and only scraped a pass even though she is so, so good! The other singing teacher is appealing, maybe you should too.

Have you told the student the result?

I have texted her mother as they are on holiday. The result was ages coming because the sheet was held back...because she sang one song in English and it should have been in German...but that lost a mark. I am upset as she is good and her confidence will be knocked. I think I will appeal as I can't believe she was that bad and am angry that he said insufficiently prepared....it helps to hear about others...thank you.

The only failures I've had have been TG exams. Furthermore I've predicted merits for pupils and they've only passed.

Their criteria are totally transparent, however I don't think they are being applied to young voices approptiately.

I had a girl fail TG's First Concert Certificate too, but she was not well prepared due to absences for long term vocal problems following the entry. Nothing abnormal found on two laryngoscopies and doctor can find nothing, but problems persist. Nevertheless, it doesn't feel good and I sympathise with you. The result did, however, make her pull her socks up, as she thought she could coast through and pass.
The other girl who took the same exam in the same session passed with merit, but I felt deserved more. When I compared the marks with the remarks, there were a lot if discrepancies, and I wrote to the Chief Examiner, who said I had grounds for appeal.
So do analyse the remarks sheet to see if this might apply. Other than that, it's horrible having to break the news and pick up the pieces. I've only had to do it once, and although she took it well, (I think she was expecting it), it's not something I would care to repeat.

Jod - I was shadow adjudicating at a festival recently, and the adjudicator told me she was fed up with remarks from non-singer examiners (particularly AB actually), about young adolescent voices. They think a lack of tone occasionally in certain areas of the voice means they are not placing the voice or supporting properly. They don't realise it's due to the changes going on - they think it just happens to boys.

This raises an interesting question: if a violinist or oboist enters an exam and the tone is rough, it is commented on and can result in loss of marks. So, I always say to my oboists that they cannot take the higher exams until they have the right tone. I'm not sure that we are being fair to examiners if we want them to make allowances for young voices. If they're not ready to take the exam, then perhaps they shouldn't be there? How does an examiner, in about 10 minutes assess what is the natural voice and what is not. I have always understood that examiners cannot start to "second guess" and I think that's right.

It is hard for young singers because their voices mature later than their colleagues playing piano, violin etc but that's the nature of the art.

I have often wondered how examiners cope with boy choristers from "pro" choirs (eg Cathedrals) who take Grade 8 as a treble, compared to a fully-formed adult soprano. I have to presume, just as with instruments, they are looking for a solid technical performance with engaging musicianship. If you cannot deliver that, on any instrument, for whatever reason, then perhaps it's not the right time for the exam?

It's the same as wind players wearing braces and complaining their tone isn't too good or their top notes won't speak. I don't think examiners can be expected to add sympathy marks to the result. What then for the candidate who doesn't have problems and only earns marks for pure merit in performance?

The only safe way it seems to me is to for examiners to mark and comment on what they hear. If they don't find it to be good enough they will, presumably say so, and the marks will reflect that. Yes, it's hard on maturing singers, kids with braces and people who feel sick with nerves - but that's the world of performance for you.

Thank you for your comments. I feel I must appeal as her result will not only have an impact on her but also to others who look up to her. It has really made me doubt TG....and I have been moving people over to them lately....earlier than Grade 6. Ooh what to do.It was so unexpected that I am unclear what to do next. I plan a Grade 5,6 and one or two 8's with them next term. The lower ones are not as strong vocally as this candidate. I can move one of the Grade 8s as she has the theory...but it is the G5 and 6 which I am now concerned about.Was also starting a Grade 1 with them.ANY ADVICE PLEASE.

I have always found it is best not to put 'all your eggs in one basket' by sticking with just one exam board. If you can get round the theory, maybe you could switch a couple of pupils back over to AB. The others could still do TG but perhaps you could keep a close ear and eye on them on the actual day of the exam if you can be at the centre, and also perhaps have a mock exam with another teacher before the day. Would the LCM be another option for you?

Try not to worry - the only way a poor exam result will affect your teaching is if you let it dent your confidence. The result is entirely between you, the pupil and the parent and, of course, if you want to share problems on here. We have all been in the same situation at some time in our careers I'm sure - it is not nice but it shoudn't affect you in the long run. A new batch of brilliant results will make up for it very quickly

Given that these changes can take a few years to complete, I wonder if it would be right to prevent them from taking exams if they had inconsistent tone due to physiological causes? A singer examiner would probably be able to tell from the position in the range the likely cause of a weakness in tone - we are only talking about a couple of notes.
We're not asking for sympathy marks - it's right that examiners mark according to what they hear on the day - just that inappropriate advice should not be made. A candidate may well have solid technical ability and be perfectly ready to take an exam, but the instrument might be in a developmental stage, and there is NOTHING that that person can do to overcome the vocal issues. It's just that some examiners comment on what they hear and then offer advice on how to overcome it, which is just not correct advice. We only seem to get this from non-singers.
Of course, harsh, nasal or any other poor tone deserves to be marked down, whatever the age. Perhaps the top notes are unsupported, leading to weakness, a tight sound, or maybe intonation issues, but this sounds very different from the odd few notes in a particular part of the voice, which a singer would be able to recognise, and may choose to ignore in their remarks.
That said, I would not presume to be able to judge techniques on instruments, so would not apply to be an examiner, preferring instead to go down the route of festival adjudicating. You are simply not allowed (if you apply via the Federation) to judge genres which are not your field of expertise.
It's an interesting point you make about young and mature voices. When I took my grade 8, I took it in Voice (I was 25ish). There were also grades available in Singing, which were for young voices. We also had to do technical exercises then, which have been replaced by the unaccompanied folk song. I had hoped, with the change in syllabus that these might come back, but then, nobody asked me...

Am I right in thinking that other exam boards only use 'specialist' examiners? I remember that Guildhall used to do this, and quite a few brass teachers I knew used to use them in preference to AB because they didn't like their students being examined by non-brass playing examiners. They seemed particularly against having string players as examiners!

It used to be true that Guildhall used specialist examiners - that is partly the reason for Guildhall's demise as a separate board, as the system was very expensive and difficult to manage. And yes, as a brass teacher, I did use them, as their assessments were much more helpful than AB. I've only ever come across one AB examiner who was a wind player. He explained that the AB philosophy was that the candidates were being examined as musicians, not as specific instrumentalists, and examiniers were instructed not to comment on instrumental techniques, only on their impact on the musical performance. One of my criticisms of AB is that their examiners are overwhelmingly piano players, necessitated by the nature of the aural tests. Piano players are not necessarily going to have the greatest understanding or the most helpful comments for wind players.

Personally I want an examiner to be able to comment on musicianship and instrumental technique as appropriate, in order to help the candidate understand his/her strengths and weaknesses. TG have absorbed this aspect of Guildhall into their system.

That's true, but it only works if you have a specialist as an examiner. As I said before, I could not comment on instrumentalists' techniques, especially in the higher grades, when the candidate is expected to have a higher degree of mastery. I use TG occasionally, but we have not had a singer for the majority of sessions, and marks for technical fluency have been suspect compared with remarks, leading to the CE offering an appeal.

I have to admit that I preferred Guidhall's solid principle. TG is much hazier (for practical reasons), though I think that they are still better than AB in the likelihood of getting a wind player (but not necessarily a brass player) as an examiner for brass exams. It's still fairly early days, and I'll judge them on the quality of their assessments. If they end up being as generalised as AB in their feedback, I'll rethink.

It's not a question of sympathy either, its a question of a having a completely different instrument.

Now you can mark for poor breath control, poor placing within the instrument, and things like that, but examiners are meant to take into account in the early grades that trebles are not full blooded sopranos.

Within in that an examiner should be able to tell whether they will be able to sing. Personally I do not enter people for exams, especially if they are boys when their developing voice is at its most unstable.

Violin examiners are meant to be able to differentiatiate between a Stentnor and a Strad, Surely singing examiners should be able to do likewise. However I fear not enough is known about singing, the physiology of children and what is reasonable.

My pupils (clarinet)had exams with the same examiner as my daughter (violin). The violin teacher showed me her comment sheets.... the examiner wrote about twice as much for the violinists than for my pupils..... why was that??? They were similar grades etc... Maybe he knew more about violinists.... he was much more specific with them.....