you made me giggle, the thought of you 'slapping me' with a wet fish

and made me smile when you said that I am a 'god' to beginners like you , a bit OTT but sweet and to the point, I know what you mean and yes I remember very well when I was playing the same 2 to 3 notes over and over again how nice it would have been to be grade 5

But I also had this 'wrong' impression that after 3 years of violin and reaching grade 5 that I would also be able to play a little here and there and be able to entertain a few people, I was not expecting to be a pro player but not to be saying to people either that I could not play anything for them, they all look at me in 'dismay' and say: but you've been learning for 3 years

So in a way I am warning you as well, you probably know this is not an 'easy ride' but hey, it is SO TOUGH!! I really have great respect now for all players out there, I never realised in my little life before I tried to learn an instrument how much dedication, hard work and consistency it takes!

It's 3 years that apart from a couple of patches where I was 'depressed' and did not practice AT ALL the first time for nearly 6 months, second for 3 months (so in total I have been practicing 2 years and 3 months), I always practice every day.

Indeed for the past year and a half I work 6 days a week, get up at 6 am, go to work, get back at 5pm cook dinner say hello to my son, catch up on emails, then from 7pm to 9:15pm I practice first violin then double bass (bass from last april) 9:15 shower/emails 10pm BED (knackered by time!!!).

As a result I don't see any of my friends anymore, I only see a couple of them once every 6 months as I have to get home to practice!!! sounds a bit too much? maybe but this is what I want to do, I want to be GOOD, VERY GOOD and only with daily hard work I will get there and saying 'oh well never mind I will practice tomorrow' does not work with me, I've tried and before I knew it I was not practicing half of the time, it's all or nothing with me!

But my friends are very good friends and know me, they know I have not stopped loving them and wait, knowing that in another 6 years or something like that they 'might' get to see me a little more often, that's if once you reach post grade 8 means you can tone down VERY SLIGHTLY the practice otherwise they will not see me ever again or at least until I am 65 and I retire from full time work (am 40 now!)

So I have in a way given up half of my life to learn violin (and now bass, but bass it's fun, violin is my love), I have given up 90% of my social life as well (I only go to the cinema once a month, nothing else, I never see anyone). And yes, one day it will 'pay back', even more so when I retire and I will be SO busy playing for many different orchestras as by then (in 25 years time) I will be THE BUSINESS in playing violin (hopefully )

oh I am so tired, better get ready for bed now

I know all about the lack of social life as I have worked nights for donkies years. (no idea what a donky year is). I also have kids two girls one 19 who only shows up when she wants money and my youngets who is 12 she is with me every weekend.

As for playing to entertain your friends. I could do that they would pee thier pants laughing at me. Had a mate round the other day she is the R.A.F. and I only really see her at christmas time so she had no idea I had started to learn the violin. When I mentioned it she asked me to play somthing for her so I gets my violin and played one verse of amazing grace. She was impressed so I was chuffed. Just give it a go play a few of the simpler tunes for your pals.

You could also try what I did on my seconed violin lesson. I downloaded some guy playing a violin solo to my pc and bluetoothed it to my phones. In the lesson I stuck the phone under my violin and when it started my treacher spun round and just for a seconed I had her lol.

thank you 'sharkstooth', I am going to bed with a smile now

I should try the mobile phone trick but I think my teacher would not fall for it, he's scary sometimes!! Once I started the lesson and he said, start with the Sevcik op 1 p2 n.12 while I go and get a glass of water...so I started.
I was playing very quietly and he went to the other end of the house, suddenly I hear him shouting from the opposite side (that's FLAT!) I adjusted my finger by (I am not joking) a quarter of a millimiter and he shouted THATS BETTER!!! I was flat but blimey, so ever slightly and amongst the million notes I was playing quietly how he picked on that one I don't know

Gees a milimeter. You would never get one over on that guy.

Well Jo, he sounds like a belting good teacher!

Hello again, long time no see and good to see this thread is still being used.

Jo, I do wholeheartedly sympathise with the 'I've been playing x years and getting nowhere' feeling. I started one month after you, had various breaks for bad health, preparing for international relocation and what not and now have only touched a viola twice in the last 3½ months! When we'd been out here in Taiwan for a couple of weeks, I called in to a strings shop to enquire about prices and had a play on a nice instrument. He asked how long I'd been playing, "2 years" said I. "You can't tell!" he responds with, what my dear hubby would call, 'typical Taiwanese charm!!!

I don't really have the time for active musical study out here at the mo, so I've never organised an instrument to play, although I've got my shoulder rest and music etc with me. I guess I'll have to get back to it when we go home, probably spring 2011. In the meantime, I look back and realised that, although I learned for 2½ years, I could basically play only one piece and can't even do a decent scale anymore! I was considering doing Grade 1 before we left as a sort of achievement, but found the set pieces beyond me! So, I understand - and some!

ELISABETH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hello!!! how are you???????

how is it in Taiwan???

what do you do to pass the time, have you made friends?

of course 'the thread' is still being used!!! we always think of you (well, I do )

Wow Jojo, I admire your dedication! You sound a bit obssessed, no offence, I mean it in a good way It's great that you're so enthusiastic but don't put too much pressure on yourself. I'm about the same level as you. I've got a friend who's done her grade 7 violin and to be honest, she's not that great. I think exams aren't a good measure of how good you are. It gives people the false impression that if you're grade 8, you're be amazing. Like you, I always thought beng grade 5 means that you can play a few decent tunes but I certainly can't do that. I think the best approach to learning is to enjoy the process and not to worry about what grade you are/how long you've been learning. I love my new teacher, I learn something new in every lesson. Even though I don't practice properly and master the new skill, at least I've learnt something new and gained a new piece of information that will help me in the future. You have to remember that you've achieved a lot since you first started learning! Have fun learning, you'll get there one day! And at least you're on the right track Haha, I don't dare to record myself cos I know I don't sound too good.

I better go and do some practice!

Hey Jo and team! Hi from Taiwan!

Yup, I'm still alive and kicking and yesterday decided that, if I didn't spend so much time mucking around on-line, I'd have MORE than enough time to carry on with my viola studies, so Sir has agreed to my getting some more prices for rental (which they do out here - nice instruments too!)

I'm not sure whether I should be encouraged or discouraged by Jo and moon's comments as I'm still pre-grade 1 and was kinda hoping to have a wider repertoire by the time I get to grade 5 standard!! Anyway, I brought materials of grades 1, 2 and beginning grade 3 syllabus out here with me including lots of simple pieces so, although I won't be a high flyer in any sort of short order, I'll be able to play plenty of tunes. I reckon that, without the 'temptation' to go in for exams and the pressure to move on to higher grades (whether self- or teacher-inflicted), I should be less focused on getting the higher grade keys and techniques under my belt and more on learning some things to play for people - and myself of course. My hubby has often said the same as moon did - that it should be enjoyable whatever the level etc. We're doing this for pleasure, when all's said and done.

OK, now the on-topic stuff is done, I'll just answer Jo's questions:

I'm on a language development scholarship out here, so I go to Mandarin classes 10 hours per week, with another 5 hours attendance required at the Mandarin Training Center (yes, US spelling) to fulfil visa requirements, which I spend on 2 hours a week of Taiwanese class and either private study or watching the Chinese films they offer - if I like the sound of them, that is. Some are just silly action or kung fu films.

Other than that, I'm keeping up my embroidery and will soon rent a viola. My health's been rotten as usual, so I haven't got to do as much as I would have liked to, but looks like we'll be here 18 months in total (see if Sir can find a part-time job), so there's plenty of time left..... And yup, we've loads of friends of all manner of nationalities - Taiwanese, Japanese, American, Brits, other Europeans etc.

All in all, things are going OK, but if I don't get off this darned laptop NOW and get in the shower, I'll miss the bus to get to school in time for my hour of private study before class.

More soon, when I get a viola......

Elisabeth!
it all sounds so good!
Mandarin/Taiwanese classes, friends from every corner of the globe AND SOON BACK TO VIOLA

Maybe I'd have a few things I could play by now if I was allowed to make some mistakes?
I keep getting comments on how my bow is not straight, how I don't do this and that, how my intonation is out most of the times (comments which are almost certainly very true as I know very well I don't play that well yet), hence why I say I CANNOT PLAY ANYTHING!

If a mere grade 5 student is allowed to have a bit of floating bow, an intonation which is not spot on as Sarah Chang and a few slips here and there, then yes, I guess I can play a few pieces
On the other hand if I am supposed to have all of the above fixed at grade 5 then I guess I better face reality and look at taking grade 2 exam this coming term

thanks Moon, I know what you mean when you say that grades aren't necessarily a good measure of what is 'going on', I mention grade 5 as this is the only way I can give people a 'rough' example of where in the journey I am.
To be honest I rate myself as the 'bad grade 5' (a little like your grade 7 friend ) but yes, like you said I don't let that stop me, hopefully I can only get better? so long that I am not getting worse that's the main thing isn't it???
gosh the thought of it, can you imagine practicing over an hour a day and actually getting worse?? you'd have to be a VERY determined person then to keep going

I am also blessed with a good teacher now (my previous teacher for 2 and a half years although taught me a few things never really taught me the important ones!).

I don't mind recording myself, I find it useful as i can hear and see where I need to improve and it might give encouragement to other people watching it so that they can see there is other people out there 'struggling' to get better I got fed up of doing youtube searches for people playing grade 5 pieces and only come across what sounds like terribly skilled players who actually play better than a grade 8 student it's nice and helpful to see/hear the good ones, but also to see there are normal people too (like me heheheh)

I don't believe in grades, they are just a good way to motivate oneself to put in some hard work.

As an amateu just have fun, improve and go play with others in some sort of group, be that chamber, quartet or orchestra.

or....they are an 'easy way' to give people an idea of where about you are on your journey? How else would I describe roughly my level of playing? Just by saying I've been playing for 3 years? But there is someone on this forum who got to grade 8 in 3 years! and others who are getting ready for grade 1, so saying 3 years does not really give it away
I guess sometimes you could name some pieces you play, but then the other person has to have a knowledge of music or the instrument you play.
If I say to my friends I can play the Zigeunerweisen, NONE of them would understand (I wish I could play it by the way ) but they would all get an idea of whereabouts I was if I said grade 5.

Jojo,
you could always say you 'have' played the Zigeunerweisen..doesn't mean you 'can' play it, just means you've scraped through it when the cat's out - see? it's all in the phrasing

(from someone who now 'has' played the Carmen Fantasy )

and have you just 'scraped' through the Carmen???
(doubt you've scraped, you're much better than that )

Ok, you got me - I have now 'scraped' through the Carmen!!!
And the Bach, forgotten how much Bach HURTS!
Cats would agree!

I can play a WHOLE bar of Beethoven's violin sonata op12

I can play the first half of the Milstein's transcription for Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor (have a look at the second half or listen to it on youtube and you'll know why I've stopped halfway )

I fudged my way through the first 2 or 3 lines of Galzunov's Elegie for Viola a while back!

Is anybody taking the grade one violin exam in March? What's anybody playing from the A list?? I just can't pick a one that I like, although I've managed to fall in love with two from both the B and C list...

I'm not doing grade one, did that back in 2007 but I'd be interested to hear what pieces you've chosen so far, I can look them up on youtube
which ones do you think are 'particularly challenging' ??

I played my violin today at Leeds. But it was pretty much the worst I've ever played the piece.

In a way though, I'm actually quite pleased with myself - not because I played it badly (and I really can play the piece I did much, much better), but because I've only been playing since the summer and getting up and performing an ex-grade 3 piece after not learning very long and in front of people who are much better actually feels like it's kind of an achievement in its own way even though I didn't really do myself justice in how I played.

I think you did GREAT!

it takes a lot to play in front of an audience!!!

I'm thinking of doing B3, Country Chimes, and either C1, Tango, or C2, Toodle-Pip for B and C, but I just have no idea at all for the A piece! I think the Country Chimes one is possibly going to be the most difficult for me because it's in 6/8, and I'm having quite the issue with 6/8 all of a sudden! Toodle-Pip also has a pizzicato section which scares me for some reason, I've developed a fantastic habit of spontaneously dropping the bow when playing pizz.! I'm seeing my teacher on Thursday, but she had suggested I should go over all the pieces and see which ones I like, so maybe she'll have a few suggestions! I think I might have taken her suggestion of "picking the ones that challenge your weaker points" slightly too seriously though!
Just tried out the A pieces again and the A3 piece, the Vicar Of Bray, seems quite difficult too! Oh gosh, all this exam palaver!

Remember that there are other oprions on the syllabus besides the pieces in the actual exam book. If you don't like any of the A pieces in the book then it might be worth having a look at the piece listed in the suzuki book. I've haven't done that particular book myself (so cannot actually recommend the piece as I haven't ever played it), but I have done one of the other suzuki books and they are good for repertoire. You'd get more music to try and there's also currently an item from the same book on the grade 3 syllabus which means you can probably get at least a term's use out of the book.

Thanks, Flossie I think I shall most certainly do that! I've totally fallen in love with my violin all of a sudden-before the holidays I was doing about an hour and a half on the piano and around 45 minutes to an hour on violin, but with being off school, there's been days I've spent nearly three hours with the violin! not proper practice though, quite alot of it is just messing about and trying things out, but it's been fantastic to have that much time to try stuff out

Hello,I'm from Malaysia,nice to meet you all! I am taking my Violin Grade 3 test this year,still preparing for it,half a year until my exam. I am currently worrying about my staccato technique (because I am taking Gavotte as my A part exam choice),and my tone is quite "hard" (if you know what I mean),still need to practice a lot!

Hello I'm only taking grade one on the violin in March, but I've been working through a friend's grade three book and also find the staccato in Gavotte extremely difficult-I always do it too legato, or with too much tension in my bowing arm and just make a really ugly "snapping" sound. One of the best exercises my teacher gave me to practice for improving tone was just bowing on open strings-really focussing on keeping the bow arm really relaxed and the hand loose, and trying to keep the bow moving in a straight line (not that my bowing is anything approaching straight yet ) and lots of slow scale practice. Good luck with your exam!

Hi,Fran*Piano.nice meeting you,My problem with staccato is same as you,always too legato and I'm practicing using open-string now on the D and A String. Which pieces are you taking for your exam?

I'm doing grade one in March, and I believe I'm doing the Country Chimes B:3 piece, either C:1, Tango, or C:2, Toodle-Pip, but still totally stuck on what to do for A! I really like the Gavotte from grade three though, it's really nice-just give me a while to get there knowing my luck, it'll almost certainly be off the syllabus by then! What pieces are you going to do?

I will be taking A4:Gavotte,B5:The Two Grenadiers and C2:Sweet Lorraine,still practicing on my D Major scales (2 octaves),it's quite hard since it requires shifting,and it's hard to find the right spot.

Oh gosh, I absolutely adore scales, but I've just started doing C major and minor scales that require shifting for just one note for a bit of early practice, and it's so hard! I have a piece of Post-It note wrapped around the neck of my violin for where the first B on the E string is, seems to be helping with locating it, but I dread to think what I'll be like without it! I mess around with double bass quite a bit too, and I just can't get my head around shifting at all!
I adore my violin, but I must say that scales on piano are so much easier than on strings, none of this micro-tone nonsense, all the keys are laid out, you might hit the wrong key at the wrong time, but it will still sound relatively musical!

When I started my violin lesson,I also stick a piece of tape around the neck of my violin,but after for some time,my teacher advised me to take out the tape (although I reluctant to do it at first),I am scared at first because there is no more help regarding the position of the keys.
Piano scales are much more easier compared to violin scales because you no need to think about all those semitone or a tone problem (the space between two fingers),but I think the hard part of piano scales is you have to make both of your hands play at the same time and smoothly.

I agree totally! I had a little smiley face sticker marking the correct place of the first note of first position when I first started, but alas, it's gone now! I did surprise myself with being able to find the notes correctly without it though...but third position just seems to be a totally different ball-game (well, the entire NOTE I can currently play to seems to be ) I agree about piano, although I am finding violin scales marginally easier than I would have done otherwise as I know all my scales already from the piano and it's just a matter of finding the correct notes (well, I say it's JUST a matter ) wheras with piano I was learning it all at the same time. I love my piano but have to confess that my progress on the violin seems to be far faster than it's been on the piano, although I've never had a formal piano lesson in my life and really am still at the basics on violin.

Fran*Piano
you mentioned double bass, I play this too, do you find the double bass easier/more difficult than violin or the same?
I find it easier without a shadow of a doubt. I have been learning violin for 3 years and am approx grade 5 on it, I started double bass 8 months ago and am at grade 5 Ok my experience on the violin can mostly be transferred over I agree, but I am still surprised at how quick I am going considering the very little practice I do on the double bass and not even regularly, I may practice for 5 days in a row then leave it for a whole week, right now it's one week since I've last touched it! and when I do practice it's 30 minutes, with violin I do minimum an hour a day, often end up playing over 2 hours!

I find shifting on the bass quite easy, mind you, I don't really have a problem with it on violin either but on violin it is much easier to end up out of tune, on the bass you have to be half a centimeter out with violin half a millimeter (or much less in higher positions)

I did learn piano up to grade 3 and when I did I knew ALL the scales/arpeggios/broken chords etc etc up to the full grade 6 requirements, as I loved playing these I always did everything up to grade 6 at the beginning of EACH practice session every day! (I am the scale/arpeggios/broken chords freak! beware!), my favorites have always been the melodic minors. I found all piano scales easy easy easy (well up to grade 6 that's how far I went) both hands too and in contrary motion as well, it's HEAVEN not to worry about landing on a note half a millimeter out and totally be out of tune!
Of course this does not mean playing piano is 'easy peasy' totally the opposite! it's a very challenging instrument!

Oh gosh, Jo, I don't really count myself as playing the double bass, I just mess around with and see how far I can get with it but I do agree that the double bass seems far easier than the violin! I tend to only do about an hour a week at most (can only use the school's double bass, and even then no formal lessons, just practice and the ocassional session of tips off the flute teacher) but I could manage some very basic tunes far faster than violin! You must be very very good at the bass to have reached grade five in such a short space of time, even with the violin playing that's a very good standard in an extraordinarly short space of time you'll be grade eight before you know it at this rate! I totally agree with loving scales/arpeggios/broken chords, I spend far too long on them on the piano and end up eating away all my practice time! We can be scale freaks together They're just sooo much easier on piano than violin without having to worry about being out of tune by missing the note by just a fraction of a centimetre! I do have some difficulty with melodic minors, I always forget and end up playing the accidentals in the descending scale as well I don't seem to do it on violin though, which is odd (or at least not as much ) I do have a problem with shifting, although I've only been playing properly since the end of September and my current shifting skills consist of moving to from first to third position to order to play a C or D for two octave C and D scales! It's a nightmare, my intonation (such as is it ) is away with the fairies, I tend to not even being close to being in tune, and my bowing isn't even worth speaking of anymore!

I'm currently working on Sweet Lorraine too. Am also working on Lord Cut's March (A1), I Sing of Jeannie with the Light Brown Hair (?B2), O mio babbino caro (?B3) and Old Joe Clark (C1). I'm not planning to do the exam though (I only started playing in the summer and haven't done any of the other exams either).

Fran - the Gossec Gavotte on the grade 3 syllabus is in the same book as the suzuki piece on the grade 1 A list. As you already have the book (or access to it) it might be worth looking at the piece on the grade 1 list as it might solve your A list problem.

Thanks Flossie, but I'd just been borrowing a friend's grade three exam pieces book for a few days I'm going to seriously look into trying to get a copy of the Suzuki book within the next few days though, seeing as I was counting on having my teacher's help with choosing at my lesson today, which was unfortunately cancelled. I've learnt the A2 piece as a backup though, just so I know at least one of them, but I really don't like it!

The Gavotte isn't in the grade 3 exam pieces book, so you must have had something else if you played it?

Is it not? I thought it was the exam book! Well in that case, it must have been the Suzuki book my problems are solved, I shall have to see if I can re-borrow it and look at the grade one piece! Wow, I seem to be having a week of exceptional stupidity...

oooooooohhhhhhhhh

this brings back sweet memories

I learnt all of the pieces on the grade 3 book and love them all (it's the grade 5 I have a problem with, most of them I don't like!).
I love the grade 3 songs so much I am not even sure I have an all time favourite on it!
Sweet Lorraine is great, so is Old Joe Clark (this was the first I learnt approx back in February 2008 when they first came out), Oh Mio Babbino Caro I LOVED TO BITS, oh, I LOVED THEM ALL!!!
in fact, it's all your fault, tonight I will play them over again at the end of my practice time!!


one hour a week is almost what I do on the double bass
I average 3 half hour sessions a week BUT I do take lessons from a great double bass teacher so I think that is the difference, if you did you would play at grade 5 too by now on it

you are doing well with violin, well on track! you have not started long ago at all and you are already introducing shifting and 2 octave scales, well done!!! Don't worry about being out of tune, it's good that you do know and know what to aim for, so you're alright there, it will get better and better with time My intonation is still 'off' but of course has improved heaps since I first started!

The good thing is that if I play to anyone then it's one of my friends who do not play any instruments so to them I am PERFECTLY in tune of course I could not fool my violin teacher and he OFTEN tells me off for being 'out', sometimes it's only a matter or changing the angle of my finger MICROSCOPICALLY

I've just noticed that there's another Gavotte as well by someone called Hotteterre which is in a book called Baroque Violinist, so that may be the one you've looked at rather than the one in the suzuki book. I've never looked at either Gavotte, but there definitely isn't a Gavotte in my copy of the current grade 3 book - so either the piece you looked at was called something else or it wasn't in the current grade 3 ABRSM book (but could have been in an old one).

I can live with being out of tune on the bass Jo (fortunately, as I spend an awful amount of time waay out ) so that's okay really, I just do it for a bit of fun, it's a lovely instrument but it's just so big! I'm the same, there's only a few people who have ever heard me play, two being parents, one being my best friend, another my teacher, and another violinist at the school. Fortunately, that's only three out of five people who know if I'm out of tune or not, and the other violinist is fantastically supportive and spends so much time helping me with any little bits I'm having to fight with I can totally sympthasise with being out of tune MICROSCOPICALLY- and my friend is almost as good as my teacher for noticing and telling me off for it still, all good practice I suppose!

And Flossie, that actually sounds familiar, I think it may have been the Baroque book the Baroque part is what reminds me, I think it was. Oh well, back to square one I suppose

HEY HEY HEY, I HAVE IT I HAVE IT the Gavotte by Hotteterre! I have the book 'baroque violinist' as there is a grade 5 piece in there
I'll have a look at it



the first 6 months I was playing it my body was CONSTANTLY aching, playing the bass was equivalent to an hour at the gym!!!

I'll bet! The one at school is almost six feet tall, and I'm only just 5'1"-much to the amusement of anybody who's ever seen me trying to play it!

I think O Mio Babbino Caro is quite hard because it uses a lot of vibrato techniques.

perhaps but 'strictly speaking' you are not required to know ANY vibrato at grade 3 at all, in fact the syllabus only 'expects SOME vibrato' from grade 5 and the full wack from grade 6
I am grade 5 and I am only learning it now
I know some people start on vibrato virtually days after picking up the violin, but it's not something you have to tackle that early, certainly I wouldn't until your intonation is largely in place (not perfect as who's got 'perfect' intonation???).

Actually I'm starting to learn vibrato right now,it's quite hard to tackle to be honest,my whole violin tends to shake a little bit when I'm vibrating my fingers on the neck of the violin.

I am I one of the few who found vibrato easy to learn? I taught myself it during one summer a few years back.

Violin Hero-Is there any trick or method to master vibrato a not? I'm kind of struggling here.

To be honest i can't remeber how I mastered vibrato. Such a long time ago.