the best method 'for me anyway' is (as I have not mastered it yet) NOT to try and learn it.
When I was around grade 3 to 4 there was many individuals on these forums learning it and talking about it so I 'tried' to approach vibrato. Bought the 'viva vibrato' book, asked my teacher (then, now have a new teacher) and 'tried' and it was SOOOO difficult that after a few weeks I got frustrated and 'left it' as we are not 'supposed' to necessarily know it until grade 5 anyway, so what's the hurry I thought to myself.

Well, recently, in the last month or so, IT IS COMING OUT BY ITSELF!!!!
I just play a piece and finger starts wiggling (mainly on the longer notes, not on fast semi quavers etc) and you know what? over 50% of the time it sounds ok too and the violin is NOT shaking (I can feel it very slightly moving but it's not shaking and it's not affecting anything and it is very subtle).
I have to add that it tends to come out more and better whenever I am playing in a relaxed state and not when I am learning a new passage. Also by looking at myself in the mirror I can tell at present it's a wrist vibrato coming out by itself!

So maybe what's happened to Violin Hero is happening to me too I think!

My advice would be don't get worried or even think about it if you are below grade 5, only start paying a thought at it when you are approaching grade 5, there are many other skills that can be learnt.
I am not saying you should avoid it, if you want to learn it go ahead, but check with your teacher your intonation is ok-ish and if you feel you are struggling or it's getting you down then if I were you I'd forget it for a while

I am using quite a bit of vibrato for Jeannie with the light brown hair and Sweet lorraine as well as for O Mio Babbino Caro. As Jo says, it's something you can chose to add or not add.


No - but I learnt cello at school and it's very easy to learn on cello and so was also easy to pick on on violin. I think I maybe spent 5 minutes on vibrato with my teacher - I struggle a bit with the low notes on the G string, but that's because I have problems reaching these notes.

Interesting Flossie,
I can do vibrato on the double bass, nobody ever showed me how or told me what to do it's just EASY! I would have thought vibrato on the double bass is the same as on cello? but I don't see how that make it 'easy' to learn on violin as on violin your arm and hand are in a different position/perspective to the instrument and to your body? Maybe it's just that 'I cannot see it', do you think there is a 'mechanical' reason why it should make it easier on violin to know how to do vibrato on the cello/bass or was it maybe something that happened to you but it's not universal? more of a 'coincidence'? it's just that if I can do vibrato on double bass, how come not on violin? (as I said it's beginning to happen on violin now and I have to point out, I've started double bass 8 months ago and only started doing vibrato on it in last couple of months so maybe you are right)
sorry, I am just thinking here, I am not saying you are not right

Thanks for the advice,maybe you're right,maybe I'm really trying too hard.But my teacher hope that I can learn this technique as soon as possible.

mmmmm, well, if 'teacher' says you should learn it as soon as possible, teacher is supposed to know best so carry on, but yes, I've heard from many people that the more 'relaxed' you are the more it will happen, but it's not easy to 'induce' a relaxed state of physical playing when you are trying to do something new

Maybe,because I still remember the first I learn about fourth fingers,because it's hard to stretch my fourth finger at first,I use my fourth finger to press the string until my finger becomes red and a little bit painful,but after for some time,my fourth gradually get used to it automatically.

Does anybody else have major problems playing in the bottom half of the bow? My teacher noticed in my last lesson that I tend to stick to the upper half and told me to practice scales and simple pieces in the two separate halves. My tone in the bottom half is simply atrocious-really "grinding" and scratchy! I have enough rosin on the bow, and I just don't understand why it's so downright awful compared to the tone in the upper half, which has been improving a bit. My arm seems to be in a really unnatural position though when I play that far down the bow (at the very heel) particularly on the G string

I did have exactly the same problem!

I found it helps to practise scales, and ban myself from using anything other than the 1/3 closest the heel, also playing scales where again using the bottom 1/3 you retake after every note. It was awful at first but it improves, you just need to get used to the balance of the bow at the heel

*reminds self to do lots and lots and LOTS of scales at the heel of the bow*
I think I might wait until I have my mute back off my teacher, try to keep it quietened down just a little bit before my parents stop my violin-ing

My teacher noticed today that I have a carbonfibre bow. I've had it since September and she tunes my violin every week using it...

N.B. I can tune my violin myself but she does it quicker and so it uses less lesson time for her to tune my violin.

I 'think' I can tune my violin but often happily leave it to others to do (my lack of self confidence shines through now and again!)

ps we can 'get away' in exams with not tuning it until grade 5 then after that we have to know how to do it

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I didn't know how to tune properly for years. Now it seems so simple.

thank you, that gives us HOPE!!

I can get my violin in tune with itself usually (I think the best one was when my teacher told me to tune it by ear-I had to tuned B F# C# G I don't know how I didn't snap the strings!) but I'm always, always out of tune when I do it myself

I think it is a case of (again!) practising, so now I try to do it by checking for fifths playing two adjacent strings then make a decision and then check it with my tuner (don't tell anyone! ). I think it is quite tricky to do it that way when you start out since playing two strings with the right bow pressure for long enough takes some work.

I also find it is easier to 'hear the fifth' when you loosen the string at the peg and tune up to the fifth, the fine adjusters make smaller and smaller change the lower the string and it can be difficult to hear any real change

When I eventually can tune it at the drop of a hat it will be great, since then all my tuning problems will disappear right? After all I only play out of tune because the violin is out of tune!

I know how to tune and can do, but my teacher does it quicker and so it makes sense for her to do it in lessons. I tune my violin myself during the week.

I believe this is the 'correct way' to tune anyway Jacobi,
for another reason too:
less likely to 'snap strings' if you loosen them a little before you tighten them and like you said, will hear the fifth more easily.
I think I do know how to tune my violin, I have only been VERY lazy, whilst I practice over 2 hours every day anything else, that is one thing I never do (rely on tuner/teacher) and I MUST, I repeat: MUST stop being lazy RIGHT NOW!

In fact, thank you 'folks' for bringing this up, from tonight I promise that I will practice tuning my violin every day (I will, honest! )

Yesterday morning every peg on my daughter's violin slipped by quite a bit (no idea why) so I had to tune the lot of them. Took me ages and needed a bit of help from the tuner, but eventually it seemed ok.

I had done a really good job - and then retuned it all again!('not such a good job after all' I thought)

When I checked it this morning before she practised every note was sharp (according to my tuner) but all by the same amount. I've noticed when it is tuned for her at orchestra it seems to be sharper too.

So what is going on there then? Is my tuner out of tune? My viola seems ok when i go to my lessons, it's in tune with my teacher's, and she plays with my daughter's violin teacher - so I'm very confused!

Probably temperature changes. My violin does this too - it will be in tune one day and then the next time all the strings will be flat/sharp by the same amount. If the violin has ebony pegs these shrink slightly in cold weather and then slip more easily (and other pegs may well do the same) - mine normally fit beautifully but have been a pain the last few weeks and my teacher says that it is just the weather.

When you tune it's not unusual to need to retune the strings you did first. As you tune the subsequent strings each one makes tiny changes to the tension and bridge/tailpiece and this will change the tuning of the other strings ever so slightly and often the first couple of strings will then be slightly out of tune once these changes have occured and therefore need to be adjusted again slightly. The tuning will also change if the instrument changes temperature - so if you've been outside walking in the snow with the instrument and then go into a lesson in a hot room you'll probably need to retune at least once during the lesson.

Ok, I've kept to my promise and I have practiced tuning my violin tonight

I unwound the strings slightly, got my A tuning fork out (I love tuning forks, much prefer them to the electronic stuff, call me old fashioned ), got the A spot on, did the A and D, then D and G then E and A and then refined tuned the A....
checked with chromatic tuner:

I DID IT RIGHT!!!

I will keep doing it at every practice session as promised

Great job JoJo !

Tuning is really one of those things that gets easier each time you do it - honestly !

I used to struggle with this, but am so used to having to retune in the middle of a session or concert these days that it just seems natural (in traditional music, you have to change the way you tune, too - I won't tune in perfect fifths if I'm playing with a pipe player for example, and if I'm playing with a concertina, I'll most likely tune in equal temperament - like the piano - unless the concertina is only providing accompaniment - in which case I'll tune the fiddle in the 'normal' way... )

Once your ear adjusts and you get used to tuning, you'll find it really easy !

Ok, it's now 'official'

my teacher entered me for Grade 5 exam in March

I really didn't want him to, but said to him I'd leave him to decide and go with what he decided...so...there!

He also decided my pieces will be:
A5 Giga (alternative piece)

B2 Andaluza

C4 Dance of the Snowmen (alternative piece)

If I chose the piece it would have been: A3, B2 and C1

I really DREAD A5 and I dread a little C4, I am well comfortable with B2.

BUT I have to trust his judgement and go for what he believes I will play best in March (I have 2 months to get over the fear of A5 and C4!!! )

I am happy with my sightreading scales/etc, will brush up on aural but this does not scare me at all, I am confident I will do well in everything BUT pieces A and C

Best of luck jojo.

From what you have described about your teacher, I don't think he would have entered you unless he was confident you are ready, so I am sure you will be fine



Good luck, and try to channel some of your current enthusiasm into 'making friends' with pieces A and C

Edit:

I too have been practising tuning, back from a break and the heating has been off, the violin didn't like the cold! So all evening spent 'persuading' it to stay in tune!

I know Jacobi, you are right, he would not have entered me unless he believes I can, especially as all his students get distinctions consistently (am so scared to let him down with a 'mere pass' but must believe in him).
Yes, I have to apply some 'mental strategies' to 'make friends' with piece A and C, you're right in that too!!

happy tuning

Yay! I now have all my pieces sorted, know all my scales/arpeggios, and am practicing sight reading like a mad thing just a few little technical and dynamic issues to sort out, and then I'm as ready for the exam as I'll ever be! I'm really excited for it now!

Fran*Piano, that's EXCELLENT!

pity I still have not made friends with my A piece it still seems like an alien thing to achieve

Awwh which piece is it? My friend's taking grade 5 violin in March too, and she's always telling me how difficult her A piece is...wonder if it's the same one?? Good luck with your A piece Jojo, I'm sure you'll get there and do FANTASTICALLY! have you got a date for your exam yet?

I'm about to run out of music again. The remaining pieces in the grade 3 book (A2 Lady Handson's Puffe and C3 Rumba) really don't inspire me. My teacher said that she will dig out one of the alternative grade 4 pieces for me next week.

I need to grow my fingers as well. Melodic minor scales are fine, but the harmonic minors tend to be a bit stretchy.

I actually love harmonic minor scales, not keen on the melodics though and I can sympthasise with the needing to grow the fingers problem, while it's always been a bit of a problem on piano, it's starting to be a problem on violin too! typical

My hand has definitely stretched a bit since I started. My left handspan is now around 5cm larger than my right one.

I don't have a date yet,
my A piece is Giga by Mascitti (on the alternative list), looks very simple, ALL IN FIRST POSITION!!! but you try and play it 'well' at speed, it's a total different story! it's VERY easy to make it sound horrible and am doing a pretty good job at it!

anyway, I'll keep going. I could play very well A3 (bagatelle) but my teacher has decided I have to do Giga and I am following his orders as I keep thinking there must be a very good reason he's picked the piece I have the less self confidence in


harmonic/melodic/harmonic/melodic......mmmmmmhhhhhh......I LOVE LOVE LOVE MELODICS!!! from the first time I've heard them (on piano that was, melodica was love at first hearing for me!)



now....you definitely have a secret to share here, as my left hand-span is well under 5 cm more than my right have you started including rubber bands in your diet

I'm glad I'm not the only person that's strange enough to prefer melodic minors. I prefer them on flute as well. Most people look at me as if i'm completely crazy if I mention it.


I don't know how it's happened. My left handspan is effectively a finger wider at full stretch. If I put my palms together, line my thumbs up and stretch my fingers as far as possible then my left 3rd finger (ring finger) ends up by my right little finger.

[quote name='jojo' date='Jan 28 2010, 11:32 PM' post='918361']
[quote name='Fran*Piano' post='918346' date='Jan 28 2010, 10:54 PM']
Awwh which piece is it? My friend's taking grade 5 violin in March too, and she's always telling me how difficult her A piece is...wonder if it's the same one?? Good luck with your A piece Jojo, I'm sure you'll get there and do FANTASTICALLY! have you got a date for your exam yet?
[/quote]
I don't have a date yet,
my A piece is Giga by Mascitti (on the alternative list), looks very simple, ALL IN FIRST POSITION!!! but you try and play it 'well' at speed, it's a total different story! it's VERY easy to make it sound horrible and am doing a pretty good job at it!

[/quote]

Awwh Jojo, from what I've read from you about your teacher, he's obviously very good at what he does and has real passion for music, so if he thinks he can do it, I'm sure he means it as a compliment! Good luck, and let us know how you're getting on with it!

[quote name='Fran*Piano' post='918351' date='Jan 28 2010, 11:06 PM']
[quote name='Flossie' post='918350' date='Jan 28 2010, 11:03 PM']

[quote name='Flossie' post='918354' date='Jan 28 2010, 11:11 PM']
My left handspan is now around 5cm larger than my right one.
[/quote]

now....you definitely have a secret to share here, as my left hand-span is well under 5 cm more than my right have you started including rubber bands in your diet
[/quote]


I've noticed that too! I've only been playing violin a little while, but since then, my left hand on piano can get a comfortable ninth (not in pieces though ) whilst I'm still fighting with octaves in my right! Ohh, I wish there was some right hand instrument that would stretch the fingers of my right hand out

At 1st look I thought the same about the rumba but put with the piano part it is a really good duet- especially the last section with the cross rhythms

I just HAVE to post! I was practicing for my exam, and my violin, for about five minutes, actually sounded like a violin! Normally, the notes come out, but it's a bit scratchy and incredibly amateur sounding (as I'm sure people will remember from when they first started) but my tone actually sounded like a proper violin! I thought I was imagining it at first, but my mam was like "Umm...is that actually you playing?!" It's gone now, but now I know I am capable of sounding good, and therefore, I am adamant that one day I WILL sound good the vast majority of the time! Sorry if it's a bit random, but I'm so excited and I just had to post!

That smilie describes pretty accurately what I did when I realised it wasn't just my imagination, although I probably shouldn't admit that over the internet how's your A piece coming along Jo?

well...
confessed to my teacher how terrible I feel about it, he said that he would not force me to do it but he also says he thinks it's 'coming along really well' (those were his words).
Although I dread it I tell myself I 'have' to do it as I feel I must 'not run away from the problem but face it', so I keep 'ploughing away' and try to re-train my brain in thinking I can do this!
I try to forget I need to have it near to perfect by the end of february when I will meet with my accompanist for a trial recital as that makes me panic, on the other hand....a month is the equivalent of 28 practice sessions (as I practice every day) so maybe it's 'achievable'??

Of course it's achievable, Jo! Your teacher obviously has the confidence in you to let you take the exam, and I'm sure that if he thinks the piece is coming along well, it's getting better and I may be wrong, but I think maybe your biggest problem here is that you don't have the same confidence in yourself that your teacher does-you're a really good player!

you are not wrong at all when you say the problem is confidence, I do lack a lot of it in violin playing, have plenty of it in most of the other 'life things'!
but you may want to re-phrase the 'you're a really good player' to a ' you are an ok player'

thank you for looking after me and making sure you give me encouragement along the way, I feel I am lucky to have nice people on these forums to share joys and desperations with

Hmmn, can I contest the player thing please?! and I agree about the forums, I think I'm getting addicted to them though

I've just been given a grade 4 piece. It looks so much harder than the grade 3 stuff I've been working on.

aaaawwwwwwhhhh don't worry, you'll get there sooner than you think
besides, it's a promotion!!! because you've been doing so well with the grade 3 stuff

There's too many chords in it. I can double/triple stop okay, but I'm not used to having whole phrases where I'm playing two lines and my fingers are moving in different directions at different times.

I need to cut my fingernails as well.

which piece is it? I have the grade 4 book as I glanced at it about 18months ago, I'll go and get it and look at it now!

It's by Pleydel. It's one of the alternative pieces.

I can hear that it will be a really nice piece, but it's going to take a while to get my fingers round it.

thought so, as I've just looked at the grade 4 book from abrsm and there's nothing in it that matches your description!

but I have the CD so will listen to it